kuRaL and Belief in God in Jainism!

[NVK Ashraf]

Hi Devapriya,

Two of your points need a response from my side:

You said: (i) Tiruvalluvar Believed in Superior God, from whom the world stated, is his Frist Kural.

The firs Kural says: "ஆதி பகவன் முதற்றே உலகு". Please notice there are two "firsts" in this. ஆதி and முதற்றே. ஆதி means not Superior or Great, but First, Initial or sometimes referred also as Primordial. The next word is also means First, Beginning, Start etc. Now the question is why should Valluvar mention "First" twice? First God and First in the world. Is there any first God in Vedic Hinduism?

Well, statements like "God is the Beginning and End" is found all religious texts, both Vedic and Semitic:

Gita, 10:20
अहमादिश्च मध्यं च भूतानामन्त एवच
I am the Beginning, the Middle and also the End of all beings
Qur'an, 57:3
هُوَ الْأَوَّلُ وَالْآخِرُ
He is the First and the Last
Revelation, 1:8
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End
Isaiah, 48:12
אֲנִי רִאשׁוֹן וַאֲנִי אַחֲרוֹן
I am the First and I am also the Last
Tirumandiram, 1570
ஆதிக்கண் தெய்வமும் அந்தமுமாமே
God is the Beginning and End of all.

All these references are about a Creator God. We have to ask the question why Valluvar didn't speak about the End? The fact that the couplet talks about two "firsts or beginnings" and the fact that Valluvar didn't say anything about the "End or Last" shows he was not talking about a Creator God who is often projected as the "Beginning and the End" but a god or deity who is adored as the first. This suits perfectly to the Jain Adi Bagavan who was the first of the Tirthankaras. Many Tamil Jaina texts refer to Ādi Bagavan. Venkataramaiyah (2001) writes how Mandala Purudar mentions Ādi Bagavan as "எண் எழுத்திரண்டும் பரப்பிய ஆதிமூர்த்தி" in section four of his Nigañdu work. He also quotes this from Kayādara Nigañdu:

கோதிலருகன் திகம்பரன் எண்குணன் முக்குடையோன்,
ஆதிபகவன் அசோகமர்ந்தோன் அறவாழி அண்ணல்

This verse has nearly half of the attributes mentioned in the first chapter of Tirukkural. Being a work that appeared after Tirukkural, the author has obviously styled his composition based on Tirukkural. He might have used these attributes in his work realizing that they all suit well to describe the Jaina deity.

You also said: (ii) "Belief in God is a Taboo to Samanam. "

Please stand corrected. Belief in a Creator god is a taboo in Sramanam.

Reference:
Venkataramaiah, K.M. 2001. திருக்குறளும் சமண சமயமும். In: வள்ளுவம்: Valluvam. Editors: Palladam Manickam and E. Sundaramurthy. திருக்குறள் பண்பாட்டு ஆய்வு மையம், விருத்தாச்சலம். Tiruvalluvar Year 2032. Issue No. 14. Pp 14-24.

[NVK Ashraf]

Devapriya,

I totally screwed up my reply. Instead of replying within the "Thirukkuralh" thread, I posted my reply as a new topic here!!! "Belief in God in Jainism!"

Sorry for the mistake. Don't know what to do! Should we continue there itself?

எண்ணித்துணிக கருமம் துணிந்தபின்
எண்ணுவம் என்பது இழுக்கு......!!!

[sundararaj]

But whatever it is, a very interesting point for discussion. Some ppl say Thiruvalluvar might have been a Christian! What is your opinion on this?

[Janar]

Only, do Christians believe in reincarnation and the existence of vedic gods?

[c4ramesh]

But whatever it is, a very interesting point for discussion. Some ppl say Thiruvalluvar might have been a Christian! What is your opinion on this?

On what basis?

[Sanjeevi]

But whatever it is, a very interesting point for discussion. Some ppl say Thiruvalluvar might have been a Christian! What is your opinion on this?

In TN, every caste people are telling Valluvar belongs to their caste. Now this

[aanaa]

thats is the beauty of valluvar/ kural