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8th April 2005, 09:55 PM
#21
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Dear Idiappam
Please accept my apologies if I have misunderstood your post.
I believe that as a lover of carnatic music I should try to understand the meaning of all the devotional songs whatever be the language it is sung.
I hope all the carnatic musicians too to understand the meaning ,the bhakthi behind the songs they sing,be it in any language.It will help them to reach God and help me too
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8th April 2005 09:55 PM
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9th April 2005, 12:04 AM
#22
Senior Member
Veteran Hubber
Dear Friends,
I am surprised to note... that the trend of discussions have jumped towards the last chapter of thoughts on the matter...
... skipping off several... in-between factors... intermediary stages.. of the topic...
... rather the trend has reached to the point of... What and How it should be?
... which is the Ultimate Question... we must see LATER... as the LAST..
Your kind attention is invited towards my Questions raised hereabove on
.. Several....WHYs... on all the pertinent Angles of present Realities...of
Musicians... Audience... Organisers.. as well as the Popoularity... Why... So?
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9th April 2005, 12:36 AM
#23
Senior Member
Senior Hubber
Barathithasan song on Tamil Isai:
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9th April 2005, 02:59 AM
#24
Junior Member
Admin HubberNewbie HubberTeam HubberModerator HubberPro Hubber
The language of the fare offered in any concert has to be taken from 2 points of view:
1. I have already expressed my opinion that the listener's choice should be kept in view. Given that the one fact that most (if not all of us) expressing ourselves here seem to agree upon is that in addition to its musicality, Carnatic music attracts us because of it's spirituality. In telugU: 'adhvaita siDDHIki amaratva laBDHiki gAnamE sOpAnamu' literally: music (gAnam) is the stairway (sOpAnam) to adhvaita siDDHi and obtaining immortality (amaratva laBDHi), I think that understanding the composition is crucial (albiet, not critical) to experiencing this plane of the music. While I agree that in an ideal world, all devotess would learn all languages and appreciate all songs, in practice I find that people well versed in 2 let alone many more languages are rarer than hens teeth. So, singing songs in a language that is well known to the audience is actually a great step in fostering a contemplative atmosphere in any concert. So, while I am not a proponent of tamizh isai only, I made the point that if the audience is composed to tamizh-speaking people, then songs in tamizh stand a much greater chance of being appreciated. If the performance is in a predominantly telugU speaking audience, then songs in telugu should be standard fare, and so on.
2. Another equally important aspect is the performers ability to understand and enunciate songs from different languages well. While I would say that it is imperative (and critical) for artistes to know the languages they choose to sing in, once again, all of know that it is sadly not true. I hold the practice of writing down songs and notations in tamizh to be responsible for many 'murders': like 'abarAma baktI' instead of 'appa rAma Bakti yentO gopparA', or 'anubama gunAmbudE' instead of 'anupama gunAmbuDHE' etc. Knowing the language is important to know how to split words when they sing neravals etc. Take this phrase for instance: 'DHaraNIlO nIvanti daivamu lEdandI' (there is no other god like you on this earth)...I have been utterly aghast at a singer going at it in the following way: daraNilo nIvantI (repeated several times) and then singing 'daivamu lEdandI' over and over again (almost as if he was daring the audience to convince him that god existed!). I am sure that had he understood the language better, he would have split the phrase differently, or better still, not chosen that particular phrase to split. So, from the point of the performer as well, they must stick to languages they are comfortable with.
So, what I am advocating is to vary the fare so that communication between the performer and audience is established easily and early in the concert, so that, the performer can then use the rest of his/her prowess in elevating them to an astral/spiritual plane.
R. Ravi Shankar, MD
Indianapolis, IN
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9th April 2005, 11:24 AM
#25
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Ravi Shankar
I agree with this point.As I posted previously,the singer must realize the meaning(literal and philosophical) meaning of the songs in which he sings.Only, then can he reach the spiritual plane and take the audience with him too.Otherwise,God will not be pleased at all.They should keep in mind that they are singing only for God's sake and not for their sake.Any slight ego in them will be punished by God and they'll be easily brought down to earth by HIM.
Even I have heard non-Tamil classical greats like Nedunuri Krishnamoorthy making lot of mistakes in singing Tamil songs.Also, the sruti bedham(pronounciation techniques) is extremely important.They have to make sure that they pronounce properly the words of the language in which they sing.This is the dharma of the carnatic music professionals.
As you observed,they should mix the fare and sing in any language with equal devotion.My point was that this language thing about which is greater language/great composers etc. should never be allowed inside
the concert hall.
Imagine if Sri Thaygaraja hears about that his music is greater than Dikshitar's music and there is a fight between other mortals who is greatest.I'm sure he would be shocked because his intention again is not to prove himself to be better than others.The intention of composers like Thygaraja and Diskhitar was Bhakthi--simplest way to reach God.
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9th April 2005, 11:40 AM
#26
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Idiappam
A humble request.Please do not post such polemical poetry by BharathiDasan in this thread.Reading such poetry will make people angry and filled with hate and other base feeling which will not take us closer to God.Reading/Hearing carnatic music songs/bhajans/abhangs in any language will evoke feeling of Bhakthi and will take us closer to God.
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9th April 2005, 12:34 PM
#27
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
All the carnatic music singers should remember the story in Thiruvilayadal.There comes an arrogant singer who says that entire Pandya kingdom should be given to him if no one can match him in singing. Lord Shiva easily conquers his arrogance and that singer runs away in the night!
SO, carnatic singers of every generation must remember that it is through Lord Shiva's grace that they are able to sing well.If they become famous,rich and prosperous through music,it is again through HIS grace only.All the praises showered on them by audiences belongs to HIM only.Otherwise,none of them can even open their mouths
Looking at the current generation of singers,i feel they are much better now than previous generations.They need not wallow in poverty and CD's ,DVD's makes carnatic music reach audiences even in USA.Thygaraja aradhana is conducted not only in Thiruvayaru but also in Sydney and Cleveland etc.
So,Lord Shiva is showering his grace on them because they are not arrogant.They should never forget this and always remember that singing is for the Lord and only for the Lord.A slight tinge of arroagnce and then HE'll quell it like he destroyed kali in dance and Ravana's arroagnce.
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9th April 2005, 02:16 PM
#28
Senior Member
Senior Hubber
Originally Posted by
viggop
Idiappam
A humble request.Please do not post such polemical poetry by BharathiDasan in this thread.Reading such poetry will make people angry and filled with hate and other base feeling which will not take us closer to God.Reading/Hearing carnatic music songs/bhajans/abhangs in any language will evoke feeling of Bhakthi and will take us closer to God.
I am not particularly concerned about what God feels, but the feelings of the hubbers are important to me! So, I will remove the last section of that Barathithasan song. Thank you for your kind advise.
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9th April 2005, 02:44 PM
#29
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Originally Posted by
Idiappam
I am not particularly concerned about what God feels, but the feelings of the hubbers are important to me! So, I will remove the last section of that Barathithasan song. Thank you for your kind advise.
Idiappam
It was a humble request and not advise.
Thanks a lot.
Wow! To say that you are not concerned about what God feels means that you must be a very brave person who always follows Dharma.Then, God will be your slave.There is one story to prove this.Total devotion to the Lord will make HIM obey you.
Lord Krishna wants to test the devotion of a potter who always chants his name.Lord Krishna goes and sits inside one of the pots the potter has made.Prompty,the potter sits on top of it and Krishna is not able to come out.Krishna asks the potter to release him but the potter refuses to release him unless Krishna blesses him that his devotion will never waver.Till that,he refuses to leave Lord Krishna from inside the pot by sitting on top of it.Lord Krishna,even though he has the power to lift the entire mountain with his little finger, cannot do anything now but accede to devotee's request.Only after Lord Krishna blesses him,the potter 'releases' Krishna The potter was so devoted that he could imprison the parabrahmam who contained the whole universe within himself.The potter refused to listen to Krishna's pleadings and his feelings You must be like the potter to make that statement.
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9th April 2005, 03:16 PM
#30
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Idiappam Sir
Another humble request.Please participate in the "Thiruvasagam" thread in Tamil Literature section.
Me,Madhu,Yudhagit and Ilavenil will greatly benefit by your knowledge of Thiruvasagam.The thread is struggling as none of us know a lot in Thiruvasagam.
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