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Thread: Hinduism, Initial concept of Shiva, Trinity...

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    Senior Member Regular Hubber Chappani's Avatar
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    Hinduism, Initial concept of Shiva, Trinity...

    Friends,

    I was going through an Article about Lord Shiva in "Week magazine" this week. it talks about who was Shiva, his characteristics etc and then ends up how we started worshiping Shiva Lingam - what exactly it is etc, it would be a surprise for many of us here, even though we frequent Shiva temples.

    Some questions crepped up in my mind when I was reading this article and digesting the facts(so called). Initially in the subcontinent there was mainly Shiva worshiping including the Harappa and Mohenjudharo civilizations(if you see aged old temples of India from Kashmir to Kanyakumari there are all Shiva temples - Vishnu temples are relatively new). Shiva should have been the god for Creation and Protection - typical duties of a God as per a human mind.

    When exactly did the new gods Brahma and Vishnu get in to our society? the concept of Trinity come in and each got specific departments assigned - Brahma for Creation, Vishnu for Protection and Shiva for Destruction (Do we need a God for destruction??? is destruction a portfolio held by a God)??? Why can't one God fulfill all these demands, why did we think that god cannot multitask and do all these tasks parallely?? Also not very sure where is the Demarcation between Creation and Protection?? Creation also involves protection right?? starting from Conception till delivery I thought creation and protection go hand in hand - Only if the Sperm and Egg is protected can the Conception happen, only if the Fetus is protected the Baby can be delivered????

    I was reading a book on similarities between Hindu god Brahma and Semitic Prophet Abraham (Christianity/ Jewish - Abraham and Islamic - Ibrahim). He is a old, bearded man said to have born in a place called "OOR" (Tamil word oor for a place) and then wandered west propagating against Idol worshiping - Is this the reason why we don't have Idols of him? as per Hindu traditions his wife Name is Sara-Swathi (Swathi is white in Sanskrit, lady with white dress and her name should be something like Sara) a very intelligent and good looking lady - as per Semitic religions Abraham/ Ibrahim's wife is Sarah (look at the close similarities in names!!!!) who was also very intelligent, learned and good looking.
    Also one more commonalty between the two Sarah and Sarah-Swathi is that both are supposed to be daughter's of Abraham/ Brahma - whom the father married - its incest in both the religions (some say as Brahma is the creator, so he had to marry someone he created as there was no one else to offer him his daughter - this is debatable topic).

    My question is: Looks like one group of people who were part/ influenced by the Semetic religion moved into India in some historic timeline, who considered Brahma as their roots, worshiped him and then looking into the local trend of religion which was Shiva worshiping, brought in the concept of Trinity as part of unification??? When they brought in the concept of Trinity to maintain their strong hold they added Brahma in the first and then moved the local god to the last???

    Please flood in your thoughts on what you think about this.....
    Last edited by Chappani; 3rd May 2012 at 08:32 PM.

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    Senior Member Diamond Hubber PARAMASHIVAN's Avatar
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    Hello

    The concept of Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, and Guru Devo Maheshawaraga is simply introduced to explain the manifestation of the cosmos. Creation, Preservation and destruction, these are the fundamental functionality of the cosmos.

    You are right about Shiva worship, prior to the various other gods of today, infact Shiva worship started off as a "stone worship" hence Lingam worship, later scholars reconstructed the Lingam to significantly explain the idea of creation. Do you know what Shivalinga symbolizes??
    Last edited by PARAMASHIVAN; 3rd May 2012 at 05:56 PM.
    Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye

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    Senior Member Diamond Hubber PARAMASHIVAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chappani View Post
    My question is: Looks like one group of people who were part/ influenced by the Semetic religion migrated to India in some historic timeline, who considered Brahma as their roots, worshiped him and then looking into the local trend of religion which was Shiva worshiping, brought in the concept of Trinity as part of unification??? When they brought in the concept of Trinity to maintain their strong hold they added Brahma in the first and then moved the local god to the lost???
    As you know India had been under many invasion, sanskrit was introduced by various invasion from persia, babylonia and as far as Turkey. It is all part of evolution.

    Besides, the Creator of the cosmos alias GOD is not an external entity , it is within you. All religious sects preach the Lord is an external entity, but only in what is called hinduism (name given by Persian invaders) it is taught to realise that the Creator is within you by various forms of Meditation/Yoga and self realisation.

    BTW Shiva is considred to be the Adhi Yogi (The Enlightent one)
    Last edited by PARAMASHIVAN; 3rd May 2012 at 08:05 PM.
    Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye

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    Senior Member Diamond Hubber SoftSword's Avatar
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    the abraham-brahma connection is interesting...
    Sach is Life..

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    Senior Member Diamond Hubber PARAMASHIVAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chappani View Post
    Friends,

    Initially in the subcontinent there was mainly Shiva worshiping including the Harappa and Mohenjudharo civilizations
    Not just in the Indian Subcontinent, in places like Brazil, Peru (The Mayans) there was Shivalinga worship. In the Kabba in Mecca, there is set to be a Shiva lingam.

    This Ling worship was evident in what are now Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar as well as Java and Sumatra!
    Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye

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    Administrator Platinum Hubber NOV's Avatar
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    another school of thought believes that originally the gods worshipped by tamils were thirumal and amman, other than the different village gods.
    all other present day gods were "imported."
    both these gods were dark-skinned, as opposed to all others.
    later the thirumaal worshipped by tamils was absorbed to the "imported" vishnu.
    it also explains why siva has no generic tamil name.

    on brahma-vishnu-siva trilogy, brahma is not permanent and is created every yuga. you would have seen brahma coming out of the navel of vishnu.
    on why must there be a god of destruction, everything created will eventually be destroyed and birth-life-death is a cycle.
    destroying is not bad - destroyer of ego, ill-thoughts, anger, greed, etc
    brahma - Generator
    vishnu - Operator
    siva - Destroyer
    =
    God

    many of us know the link between sivalingam and the phallic symbol - there is nothing to be ashamed of, as fertility is the root of existence.

    as I said, all these are schools of thought and there is no way anyone can prove which one is right or wrong.
    Never argue with a fool or he will drag you down to his level and beat you at it through sheer experience!

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    Senior Member Regular Hubber Chappani's Avatar
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    Thanks Nov and others for your response.

    I understand the agreed upon purpose of each among the trinity, my question is - Is this is a fabricated story that came into existence sometime later just for one group to get supremacy????

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    Senior Member Senior Hubber anbu_kathir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chappani View Post
    I understand the agreed upon purpose of each among the trinity, my question is - Is this is a fabricated story that came into existence sometime later just for one group to get supremacy????
    We all came from Africa is the claim made by today's scientists. Perhaps it is a fabricated story by Westerners to grant supremacy to Africans.

    Have you read the original Shaashtra under a teacher? Please do that and then form your opinions. The article that you claimed to have read is from a "magazine" written by an author who has projected his own ideas to the Hindu scriptures. He does not say whether those ideas are correct or intended by tradition. Who is his teacher, on what basis or grounds does he form his opinions?

    When we visit a doctor, we try to ensure by direct verification or by implication (from other sources) that he has got a degree from an accredited institution and has been practising medicine for some time. When parents join their kids to a school, they ensure that the school is accredited by a higher authority and has been giving consistent results for several years.

    In the same way, no person, who is for or against religious ideas, has any authority by his own accord. First proceed to verify the authority from which he/she speaks. If you have verified his/her authority and are convinced of it, please carry on your study of his/her ideas for an extended period of time. Then reflect on the ideas using your own developed intellect. Then ultimately give "your" opinion on it, based on all these.

    A 3000+ year old tradition cannot be ascertained to one way or another without careful, consistent and systematic study from the appropriate sources.

    Just my two cents.

    Love and Light.
    Last edited by anbu_kathir; 8th May 2012 at 11:38 AM.

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    Senior Member Diamond Hubber PARAMASHIVAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anbu_kathir View Post
    We all came from Africa is the claim made by today's scientists. .
    Yes, according to scientists the Indian sub continent plate was joined with Africa millions year ago, and the ocean separated the plates by various natural calamities like Tsunami’s, Earth quakes etc.
    Om Namaste astu Bhagavan Vishveshvaraya Mahadevaya Triambakaya Tripurantakaya Trikalagni kalaya kalagnirudraya Neelakanthaya Mrutyunjayaya Sarveshvaraya Sadashivaya Shriman Mahadevaya Namah Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye Om Om Namah Shivaye

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    Senior Member Senior Hubber anbu_kathir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PARAMASHIVAN View Post
    Yes, according to scientists the Indian sub continent plate was joined with Africa millions year ago, and the ocean separated the plates by various natural calamities like Tsunamiís, Earth quakes etc.
    My statement was supposed to be a joke . Of course we came from Africa. Infact we did not get separated because of natural calamities. The earliest humans walked all the way along the coast from Africa through Middle East to India till Asia's south east. That is how we spread originally. I think this is our (humanity's) current understanding of the earliest human beings.

    Anyway, all this is away from the topic.

    Love and Light.

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