New age IR's Raga Choices

[skr]

Like rprasad rightfully said a lot depends on the film situations and what the director wants.
He cannot give ragas of his choice. For that he needs to do his own albums ( which i wish he does a lot more).
I feel the scope should be created for him to venture into unknown ragas and stuff.
Tell me is it possible to expect a musical oriented subject like Sindhu Bhairavi in this day and time?
Thats all the more reason im excited about Padithurai. Not only is there a song in Saaranga , there is also one in Maand.
Whenever there's been a scope for him to dominate through his music , he has ruled reign and seldom has he fallen below expectations.

Talking about Raagas , Raaja did produce songs in quite a number of different ragas in the last yr
Who would have though he would come up with a Sallapam in Kalaya Nijama ?
And also a reverbrating hard hitting Revathi for the song Kaattu Vazhi from Thandavakone ?
Kalyani is his forte and yet again he came up with a stunning Amrithamayi
There was also a brilliant Brindavana Saranga for the song Mallar Villile from Thandavakone and an amazing Pantuvarali in Sri Rama Lera.
And Vel has already mentioned about bit songs in SRR being in Ragams such as Senchuruti and Saraswati.

I agree with you Aakarsh that there is no harm in expecting the genius to come up with all sorts of rare stuff , but sadly the problem lies in the filmmakers not being able to catch up with him and provide ample scope for him to wand his magic.
I have high hopes on Padithurai considering the director Mr Suka is musically very knowledgeable and would have created the ideal platform for Maestro to show his versatility and class.
The only problem being the film is not releasing and has been lying in the cans for more than a year.
Wish Arya does something to release the movie. Fingers crossed.

[skr]

Speaking about Charulatha Mani , im in Kolaveri with her for coming up with this song

EKSI

[V_S]

RR,
I understand with your difficulties. As you said, I erase those from my memory when I am listening to any new IR song. Mainly I look for how different it is from treatment perspective. But for some, it seems the raaga perspective automatically gets into them without their knowledge based on their vast listening experience, which I could not blame. I just hinted, if you leave out that, there is lot we can discover. It may not work for everyone.

App,
I too surprised how she mentioned Ninnu kori varnam as Vasantha instead of Mohanam. May be experts can clarify.

[skr]

Its definitely Mohanam , adhulla doubt e illa.
Cant come to an understanding as to what she is tying to convey.

[app_engine]

V_S & skr,

The portion I quoted does not talk about the movie song (the agni* one) but looks like some lesson ("varNam") that classical music learners need to go thru.

That "varNam" is in vasantha rAgam with the name nikkukkOri. Apparently, Vali / MR / IR combo thought of using that as the first line of a film song.

My curiosity was around whether they also used the same rAgA as used by the classical music people. Looks like rAsA did the song with mOhanam (vENumnE senjArA illaiyA theriyAdhu )

[V_S]

App,
Till today I was only thinking that 'Ninnu KOri' varnam belongs to Mohana raagam. From the article, since they have specified Ninnu KOri varnam in Vasantha raagam, I was confused.
Did some googling and found that there are two Ninnu KOri Varnams one in Mohanam and another one in Vasantha raagam. I don't know why they kept the same name, only to make us confuse

The Mohanam varnam was composed by R. S Iyengar, while the Vasanatha varnam was composed by Tacchur Singarachari.

So Mani/IR/Vaali used the 'Ninnu Kori varnam' line from Mohana varnam and also composed the song in Mohanam. Now, the article confusion is also cleared.

If I am wrong, experts please correct me.

[Gregorysab]

Aakarsh and others who are talking about needing IR to explore less used ragas in his songs do not seem to understand the process of making film songs. No music composer including IR approaches a film song composition by predetermining which ragas they want to use. It just does not work that way. Ir composes to the situation and if the tune falls into a raaga then so be it. The situation demands a certain type of song either a melody or fast paced or folk etc. IR does not predetermine any raagas he is going to use. If his popular songs fall into certain raagas only then its obvious a song based on that raaga works the best in terms of catching peoples attention. Now we also have to consider the directors too, since they are the ones who approve a tune finally and need to be happy and convinced that the tune will work. Infact maybe IR did compose some songs which probably fell into the lesser known raagas and it was rejected by the director? could have happened. Film situations typically limit the composer since he has to satisfy peoples tastes and also try to be creative. IR is the best in that regard in doing a delicate balancing act for so many years. Now if he is doing a non film album , then yes he is free to explore raagas and base his composition on that. But in film world it just does not work that way even for a great composer like IR.

rprasad,

Totally known and understood! I agree & understand your point about how film music is made. All I am saying is that these constraints you are talking about - did not matter to Raaja earlier. For instance: Look at the chessy picturisation of "Meetadha oru veenai" and tell me - did that director had any musical knowledge, about the raagam or whatever... to approve that song? I think No. If he had, he wouldnt have picturised it that way. The song begins when the hero and heroine are wet in Rain and her saree flies across his face. Tell me, if the director was competent enough to tell the imagery to the director, would IR have choosen Reethigowla for that instance. I dont think so. Raaja might have choosen some other raaga. But there, he choose reethigowla. why? because the director probably narrated the situation in a different way (or he probably changed his picturisation idea later). whichever way you see, the picturisation aesthetics do not give me a feeling that the director was knowledgeable enough to demand or handle that raaga first. So, i have to assume that Raaja gave that composition - just like that - on the spur of the moment, without any influence of director's taste. Now it begs the question - how could he give such a gem? and further, again... if he could do so, back then... why is he not, now? (he is giving gems today.. what i mean is - why he is not going for underexplored raagas now, frequently?.. he still does.. but only few times)

And, forget director's knowledge(about raagas), even if we talk about situations... Did raaja really need a kedharam raaga, for the situation such as Sundari Neeyum in MMKR? he could have used another Kalyani (celebrative - since the situation ends with wedding of Kamal & Urvasi). But he went for a lesser tapped Kedharam. Or did the situation to show a "happy couple" in Kalaignan really need a unique Nalinikanthi? But he did venture into it.

I may be quoting one-off cases perhaps... but i hope you get the drift. Again, I am not saying that he cannot. On the contrary, (only) he can. He elevated most ridiculous films, with equally cliched situations, with some of the strongest compositions - irrespective of who the director was. Even recently, a Kannil Paarvai or Kooda Varuviya came to him naturally, because thats him. it was not because the director wanted a Rasikapriya or Mohanakalyani etc. My point is: such lesser tapped raagas are not coming naturally to him frequently these days. Even in private albums, i see them less (karaharapriya in Ramana Saranam saranam was brilliant - and i listen to it very frequently, why? because it keeps my memory of the raaga fresh... now you see what I am talking about). I dont know the reason. But it would be great to see him explore such raagas like Natakurinji, Bahudari etc - raagas for which we cannot think of IR songs from the top of our mind.

(my assumptions for Meetadha oru veenai song above - are all from the picturisation... I dont know if the director was really knowledgeable enough or not).

V_S,

Sri Rama Rajyam had Raaja with many limitations. So I dont mean to apply my argument to SRR also. I am satisfied with that album.

[vel]

Vel/ Kamal/ RR / thumburu
My personal opinion is, Raja is doing a lot of new things. And as a composer he knows which is new, from his point of view. So let us enjoy the newness that he gets in rather than worry if he has used a new raga or not. .

Great point Suresh, and also about the genre (jazz) thing. As you also rightly pointed out, there was a time he did 30 films a year and hence he himself would need to pump up his adrenaline by trying out whacky experimentations (e.g. maaman voodu in bilahari)...Even now though he is ageing with lot of grace and charm he is yet still learning new things (jazz)...Like some DFer (Plum?) said once,"please let the man be what he wants to be....let him try what he wants to"

On the whole, a very nIce discussion from kamal, RR, SKR, V_S...


Suresh, regarding punnagavarali, there are two earlier ones by Raaja. Aadidum Peigala is a funny comedy song in Aduthaathu Albert and there is a snake number in the movie illam -- the song goes Aadum Paambirukkudhu....

[RR]

App,
So Mani/IR/Vaali used the 'Ninnu Kori varnam' line from Mohana varnam and also composed the song in Mohanam. Now, the article confusion is also cleared.

If I am wrong, experts please correct me.

Yes you surmised riight. 'ninnukkori varam' first line is exactly same as (swara wise) the famous carnatic varnam, and it is in mohanam. The rest of song is of course IR's creative exploration. Charulatha M could've clarified it to avoid confusion.

She has made some good observations about vasantha usage in TFM (the prayoga's), but the article has its share of mistakes as well. Knowledge-able folks here know that 'vandhanam' is not vasantha. With due respects to Charulath M, I'm surprised she missed the dhaivatham clearly indicates it's pantuvarali family. It only goes on to prove my oft-repeated conjecture that no stalwart can escape from mistaking in film song raga finding - which is a very delicate exercise.

[RR]

aakarsh, Well said! Your response rprasad is almost what I had in mind. Personally I am unable to buy the arguments that 'situations demanded it', 'directors inapt', or even 'music genre can't support complex ragas'. We all know IR is beyond all these and can tune any song in any raga/scale or genre and for any mood. He has proved it several times. So whats stopping him..

Here I like to add that no IR bashing intended here Only raising a point to ponder, over and above our enjoyment of musical richness in his current products.