New age IR's Raga Choices

[vel]

vel, btw, the ros link is fixed. Didn't realise it was broken.

Great RR! thanks a lot for fixing the link to ROS !!

[app_engine]

Like say, when he gave a Saara yeh aalam in Shiva-2006, I who never knew simhendramadhyamam before, atleast felt that this was something different, something unusual, some very different raaga. And my curiousity led me to Simhendramadhyamam. I usually dont experience such kind of stuff in recent songs of raaja.

Well, 'sArAh yEh Alam' is not exactly recent It was a recycle of the TFM classic 'Anandha rAgam kEtkum kAlam' from panneer pushpangaL (you probably heard the original sung by Uma Ramanan and it arrived in 1981, not exactly a 2006-er )

BTW, there were other simhEndra madhyamam rAgA based numbers as well...e.g. this gOpura vAsalilE number :

[Gregorysab]

app_engine:

I knew Aananda raagam and I knew that Saara Yeh aalam was a rehash of it (upon the insistence of Ram Gopal Varma). What I meant was that I didnt know about the raaga of this one (and hence the raaga of aanada raagam song). Anyway, my point is that, Ilaiyaraaja did it because RGV asked specifically for it - else, I havent seen Simhendramadhyamams (atleast an effective exposition such as saara yeh aalam) from him in long time!

[Sureshs65]

Vel/ Kamal/ RR / thumburu

I think we must take a few aspects into consideration when we are talking about usage of rare or not so often used ragas. One is what Vel had remarked about. When he uses it, we do not know about it For example, what ragam is 'kaatu vazhi' based on? I am not sure what it is based but it is a wonderful song.

The second and the more important aspects according to me is the genre he is using. Nowadays he is very much into jazz and you can hear that aspect very clearly in his best compositions, be it for 'Gayam 2' or 'Sneha Veedu'. He declared during the live show that both he and Karthik Raja were learning Jazz from the Hungarian guitarist. That influence clearly shows in 'Snehaveedu' songs as well as the BGM of ASK. Now, in case of Jazz, if you are sticking to some of the grammar there closely, it may be difficult to use certain carnatic raagas as it will be very difficult to set chords for them. One of my friends, a musician himself, was remarking as to how composers try composing Sriranjani in the madhyama sruthi because in the normal sruthi, Sriranjani lacks the 'pa' and it is supposed to be difficult to set chords for a scale which does not have 'pa'. Now, I am no musician and I am just quoting my friend here. (Any musician (amateur or professional) reading this can substantiate or correct this.) So he may be constrained by the genre itself because he is trying out new things in jazz genre. That's why his songs are sounding so fresh. As in 'andala lokam' in Gayam 2 or the songs of 'Sneha Veedu'. Ofcourse we are still stuck in his 'tenral vandu ennai thodu' times that we want him to recreate that magic. The truth is, magic is happening in a different genre and lot of us don't seem to realise that magic is indeed happening.

Ofcouse that is not to say he isn't using rare ragas. 'neeraal udal kazhuvi' is based on 'Punnagavarali', a raga which he hasn't used earlier. As Kamal is mentioning, 'Padithurai' has a song based on Saranga.

We must also take into account the fact that Raja is doing far less movies than what he was doing at his peak. Even at that time you would have got Suddha Dhanyasis, Suddha Saveris etc but given the wide range of movies he was doing, he had enough scope to come up with tunes based on new ragas.

I had earlier also written that as far as "SreeRamaRajyam' was concerned, Raja had understood the need of the market and delivered perfectly. Inspite of that I believe 'Sree Rama Lera' is a terrific composition, not letting us know which ragam it is. Even 'Jagadanandhakaaraka' though based on Suddha Dhanyasi, doesn't have any flavour of his earlier works. Nor does 'Seetha Seemanthamu'.

My personal opinion is, Raja is doing a lot of new things. And as a composer he knows which is new, from his point of view. So let us enjoy the newness that he gets in rather than worry if he has used a new raga or not. The way the same English language, in the hands of a master writer takes a new color, the same old ragas in the hands of Raja glow afresh. Like 'Amrithamaayi' based on Kalyani or 'Chandrabimbathin' based on Sriranjani.

[Gregorysab]

Suresh,

I didn't know about his jazz trippage. I just had a conjecture that he is offlate trying lot of jazz kind of work but i didn't know that it was official Interesting!

True, that when one is excited about something (like jazz here), obviously, the focus will be less on other genres. I dont mind his jazz stuff - which is why I was enjoying Mathiya Chennai, when half of his fans didnt get that excited about it. Or infact, take the opening guitar portions of Amurthamaayi - Thats so unlike Raaja. Evidently, he was trying something different. And I for one, am thoroughly enjoying the magic in different genre! but as they say - the nostalgia beckons at times! when I see that Raaja has not really ventured much into raagas like Bahudari and Poornachandrika (very stray attempts so far), I feel that he must now, for a change, give up (atleast temporarily) Mohanams Keeravanis and Suddha Dhanyasis - where he really charted their DNA in the realms of film music... and try the same with Bahudari/poornachandrika/Sri etc (there are some raagas, in which he composed just 1 or 2 songs but nothing major) in film songs or atleast in his non-film ventures. Ex: I was thrilled at his Karaharapriya attempt in Ramana Saranam Saranam.

Like I again say - if he doesnt, who will?

[rprasad]

Aakarsh and others who are talking about needing IR to explore less used ragas in his songs do not seem to understand the process of making film songs. No music composer including IR approaches a film song composition by predetermining which ragas they want to use. It just does not work that way. Ir composes to the situation and if the tune falls into a raaga then so be it. The situation demands a certain type of song either a melody or fast paced or folk etc. IR does not predetermine any raagas he is going to use. If his popular songs fall into certain raagas only then its obvious a song based on that raaga works the best in terms of catching peoples attention. Now we also have to consider the directors too, since they are the ones who approve a tune finally and need to be happy and convinced that the tune will work. Infact maybe IR did compose some songs which probably fell into the lesser known raagas and it was rejected by the director? could have happened. Film situations typically limit the composer since he has to satisfy peoples tastes and also try to be creative. IR is the best in that regard in doing a delicate balancing act for so many years. Now if he is doing a non film album , then yes he is free to explore raagas and base his composition on that. But in film world it just does not work that way even for a great composer like IR.

[V_S]

Great Discussion, very interesting to read all your posts. I know I am not qualified to talk here, since my favorite SRR has come into discussion, could not avoid pouring in my thoughts.

In recent IR soundtracks, the way SRR shook me can never be described. This is the only soundtrack I listened continuously for more than 4 months daily since its release and even now. As vel mentioned, Maestro used Saraswati raagam in SRR. We can appreciate his ingenuity that Maestro has composed in this rare raagam, but unless the song captures us, there is no point is using any new raagam IMHO. But I think, some of you are very keen first to observe what raagam he has composed and once you find it is in same raagam, I think that takes your interest out, even if the song has many other things to offer.

One big thing in SRR that everyone needs to remember is, all the songs were composed for pre-written lyrics. There itself was a huge limitation. With this limitation, he has composed in a diversified manner and every song takes us to different mood and brings various perspectives. Just imagine those three story telling songs and their variations he has given and frequent scale changes. And that glorious cover drive in 'Seetha Seemantham'. How he changes the mood from happy to sad by offering different charanams and orchestration.

May be for a novice like me, it does not matter what raagam it was composed, as long as it wins my heart. I agree it would be good if Maestro composes in some rare or not-done-so-far raagams, but it does not take away the beauty from his compositions. Also I think it is by instinct and Maestro does not pre-determine which raaga he has to compose. To be honest, it is good to know from a statistical point of view what all raagas Maestro has composed, just like everyone is waiting for Sachin's 100th century, but to me how those runs wins a match for India is most important to me, just like any song winning our hearts.

[krish244]

There is a Charulatha Mani article every week (if I am not wrong...) in THE HINDU about carnatic raagas. It also talks about how it is been used in film music. Of course she talks about how IR uses it as well:

Today's article (on Vasantha raaga):

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article2780440.ece

I have been seeing / reading her articles for a couple of weeks now, but somehow keep forgetting to post the links here. I did not notice if someone else has been posting the links.

thanks,

Krishnan

[RR]

But I think, some of you are very keen first to observe what raagam he has composed and once you find it is in same raagam, I think that takes your interest out

Not at all. It's just that he has done so much with some ragas (names don't matter), if he uses them again it's very difficult not to sound like a rehash. It did happen to me with Sri rama lera. gives a deja vu feeling. Well if you can erase your memory of his previous songs and songs like 'kanden kanden', it's of course a beauty. That's my point.

[app_engine]

There is a Charulatha Mani article every week (if I am not wrong...) in THE HINDU about carnatic raagas. It also talks about how it is been used in film music. Of course she talks about how IR uses it as well:

Today's article (on Vasantha raaga):

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article2780440.ece

The Hindustani raag Girija closely resembles Vasantha. Our young readers would relate to Vasantha raga through the varnam "Ninnu Kori". Such pieces are evergreen and well-loved.

While the writer talks about a classical piece, one cannot control the curiosity question : what rAgA is the agni* song based?

Is it vasantha or some other or non-rAgA?