New age IR's Raga Choices

[skr]

Tried finding out the Raagams of all the songs in Mayilu
This is what i think they are , please correct me if i am wrong

Namalodu Puthandu - Harikambodhi

Yathea - Keeravani

Kalayanama Kalyanama - Sindhu Bhairavi (im little confused here)

Aadhissoka - Dont know , maybe Natabhairavi or Keeravani (keep hearing both the Nis)

Thukkamenna Thuyaramenna - Natabhairavi (though the other Da2 keeps alternating from time to time )

Enna Kutham - Thodi

[RR]

KV

skr, You must have excellent swara gyaanam! I'm curious to know more about your method of finding swaras by relating to popular song.

V_S: finding the notes with, say keyboard, is easy, but deciphering D3 or N2 and sometimes even shatjam is non-trivial. Guess we go by experience.

[vel]

KV, Superb! Thanks for the complete swara notation. Wonderful Very good as an educational purpose. Thank you! Question not relevant to this topic, still want to ask, if I may. Sometimes (no many times), I find it difficult to distinguish between say ni, ni2 and ni3, sameway di, d2 and d3, especially d2 and d3 or ni2 or ni3. How do you guys find that out? Just by singing or by playing on any instrument? I know playing instrument would be easy enough, but just wanted to know. You guys are doing a great job!

V_S, it is easier with an instrument....but with some IR songs, there are cases while your ear wonders whether the note is neither a Ni3 nor Ni2 but is somewhere in between ! Finding notes by singing is tough !

KV -- happy you found the Ri2....appreciate your hard work in posting all the notes.....instead of complicating that it is some neethimathi janya sans the Ri2, why not just simply say it is neethimathi with scant Ri2

[vel]

While discussing on raga choices, we should also keep in mind how there could a western music persective on top of all these raga layers. That makes all our analysis even more inadequate to be able to pass judgements since we are only seeing half the picture. We are not seeing the complete picture at all ! Below are some western scales and their equivalent carnatic ragas: (info courtsey Violin Vicky, Tn Arunagiri, Gopi, Sripathy Ramesh)

1.Diatonic Major – Shankarabharanam
2.Diatonic Minor – Natabhairavi
3.Harmonic Major – Sarasaangi
4.Harmonic Minor – Keeravani
5.Melodic Major – Chaarukesi
6.Melodic minor – Ascending is Gowrimanohari and Descending is Natabhairavi.
7.Double Harmonic Major – Mayamalawagowlai
8.Double Harmonic Minor – Simmendhramadhyamam
9. Major Pentatonic Scale: Mohanam
10. Minor Pentatonic Scale: Sudha Dhanyasi
11. Blues scale -- Minor Pentatonic with Ma2 --ex: if Sudha dhanyasi is Sa Ga ma Pa Ni Sa. Blues is Sa ga Ma1 Ma2 Pa Ni Sa. Ga and Ni are Eb and Bb in C for example.
12. Whole Tone Scale is like C D E F# G# A# C in a C shruthi thing for example. The interval between one note and the next note is always a tone(2 semitones).
13. Chromatic Scale is C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B and C. All 12 notes in a scale from C to C for example.


The seven modes of western music

Ionian - C to C - All White Keys - Sankaraparanam
Dorian - D to D - All White keys - Karaharapriya
Phrygian - E to E - All White Keys - Thodi
Lydian - F to F - All White Keys - Kalyani
MixoLydian - G to G - All White keys - Harikhamboji
Aeolian - A to A - All White Keys - Natabhairavi
Locrian - B to B - All White Keys - Thodi with Ma2 instead of Pa


I am not equipped to comment on these western aspects. I am zapped to even know such details exist. Seen in this context, how many more dimensions there are to IR's music ? And how ill-equipped and incomplete would it sound if someone knowing just carnatic or vice versa someone (knowing only western) make reviews on a song !!

While i could a brush aside a natabhairavi song as being cliched, that song may talk a different language to a person knowing western music -- Aeolian - A to A - All White Keys - Natabhairavi !!!

[vel]

Tried finding out the Raagams of all the songs in Mayilu
This is what i think they are , please correct me if i am wrong

Namalodu Puthandu - Harikambodhi

Yathea - Keeravani

Kalayanama Kalyanama - Sindhu Bhairavi (im little confused here)

Aadhissoka - Dont know , maybe Natabhairavi or Keeravani (keep hearing both the Nis)

Thukkamenna Thuyaramenna - Natabhairavi (though the other Da2 keeps alternating from time to time )

Enna Kutham - Thodi

SKR, got the CD? from where?

[KV]

Thanks, all . Hope it's readable! (RR, just curious, is there no way to retain original spacing while posting?)
V_Sji, mine's the same case as the others here, using an instrument. Vocal-laye exact Ni/Ri etc pudikkardhu appatakkars vonly possible.
Vel, thanks for sharing the WCM stuff... very informative . And we're not trying to judge the man or his music here. Aaruvaththa pagundhukkarom, avalo dhaan.

[Sureshs65]

Nice discussion going on. For my part, I can make out a raga, if it is in carnatic format that is, without mapping to any song. But I cannot make out the swaras. I need to try hard and I generally don't If I try, sometimes I get it but many times I don't. So on the safer side I stay away from this saying I can get the feel of a raga but I swara challenged.

[Sureshs65]

Continuing raga choices of Raja further, here are some songs which are not confusing Atleast the overall mood tells us in the three cases I list the ragam is Mohanam (maybe an anya swara may creep in but for most part it is Mohanam.)

I have been fascinated by the fact that Raja chooses Mohanam for situations which can be deemed as funny. Generally Mohanam is used for melodies and soft and slow ones at that. Raja also has used Mohanam in this mode but in recent past he has been exploring other possibilities with Mohanam. Let me state that the recent songs were not hits and I am sure people will not term them 'hits' or 'classics'. I am not even sure how many would like them in the first place. Yet for me these are fascinating because of the way Raja deals with this ancient raga.

The first song was probably quite popular in those days. From the movie 'Maharasan', (1993). This is based on Mohanam. I haven't seen the movie but the words suggest a comic situation, especially the second charanam. The orchestration is also done that way. The way the tabla starts the charanam, the short flute bits and the overall way the rhythm keeps changing all aid the comic situation, I would guess. The orchestration is the 'tradition' Raja with shenai, flutes and violins.



Let's now hear another song from the Telugu film 'Mallepuvvu'. Sung by Tipu, this again based on Mohanam. The situation seems to be about a tea seller selling his tea. The pun is on the word 'tea'. Words which end with 'tee' are mixed with 'tea' to give a funny song. Raja uses mridangam in between and the kalpanaswaras to add to the situation. A nice Mohanam infact but didn't catch the fancy of many because it was used in such a situation.

http://www.raaga.com/player4/?id=961...64131882227957

The next song is from the Malayalam movie 'Sooriyan'. Though I don't understand Malayalam much right from the prelude you can make out this song is for some funny situation. The violins in the first interlude and the lovely guitar and veena dialog in the second interlude, the mridangam accompaniment, the way the guitar is played, everything is used to again give a good platform for the director to picturise this situation well.

http://www.raaga.com/player4/?id=684...58448596671224

Again a song which should have been more famous but lost due to the movie being a major flop. 'Sooryan' was probably a 2007 release and 'Mallepuvvu' a 2008 release. So as I have been claiming the experiments continue

[skr]

RR ,
Whenever i get a doubt regarding Ri Ga Da Ni,i hum the doubt song and a popular song say Katril Endhan Geetham which i know is in Keeravani and has D1 and N3.
Will try to see if i could do a mapping as to whether its the same D1 or N3 in the doubt song and then try to match accordingly.
However the easier way is just trying out on a keyboard. This may come handy when you dont have a instrument with you .

Vel ,
I have heard Mayilu songs only online . I enquired in Landmark , Nungambakkam . They said its not available and is expected today.
However i believe its available here and i will get it tomorrow
Rahavendra musicals
#17/7 station road,
west maambalam,
chennai-33
PH: 044-24745878
Contact person : Murugan
CELL : 9941426212 & 9381021538

[vel]

RR,

Honestly I wouldn't be able to pick between these two. Both are excellent in their own way, with 'Swapanangal' touching the heart a bit more.

Hi Suresh, RR, Vinatha --i think swapnangal is pahadi with some sivaranjani touches in charanams. To understand why would he mix those scales, one would need to understand the film situation better.