Historical Debates/Qs/Facts/Theories

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That was "Then Madurai". This was on the banks of PahRuLi River in Kumari. It was swallowed once.
The second capital was Kapaata Puram on the banks of the Kumari River. This was swallowed up,later.
The third capital is Madurai(present).

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JB, the standard explanation for "land taken by sea" myths of all cultures is the flood legend. The anthopologists usually term it a manifestation of folk memory of the great flood, melting of the ice caps at the end of the last ice age 9000BC that raised the sea level by 90 meters. They dont believe anyone had written grammar and established cities that long ago. But they consider it a definite proof that enough social organisation, and enough linguistic framework existed to propagate the memory of the great flood through generations.

The flood is mentioned found in Hindu, Judeo-Christian religions, the native american cultures, greek and mesopetomian legends also.

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The Chinese and Malays do have it also
Thats what makes people pause in their tracks......
and think.
Like what I did.

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Dr. Jay Bee - Sorry and thanks.
Very interesting theory and makes plenty of sense.
Was Parameswara who founded Malacca a Thamizhan?
Also, how did the Balinese end up being Hindus (in an ocean of Muslims)?

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Parameswara was a Malay. But he was a Hindu.
At that time, the whole of South East Asia was either Hindu or Buddhist.
But the Hinduism that they followed was a lot different from the present sense of the word.
During the 15th century, it was because the rulers changed religion, the people also followed.
But the Bali rulers held their ground and maintained Bali as a Hindu nation. It was a short time to wait for the Westerners to come. When they did, conversion was not an issue anymore.
But all over Indonesia, we still find pockets of Hindus. In Medan, there are the Hindus of the Batak tribe. They have a temple called Koil Sri Kartikeya, which is dedicated to Murugan. The Batak speak the Batak language apart from Bahasa Indonesia.
I have met Hindu Javanese and Madurese. They also still play the Ramayana dance. "Perang Barata Yuda" means "The MahaBharatha War". They follow the Saka Era for counting years.
Parts of the Vedas have been translated into Indonesian. I have some Mandalas of the Rig Veda. Many Upanishads and Gita have also been translated.

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"Maadhu" (penn) uraiyum oor. Adaavadhu madurai meenakshi amman kudi konda oor. enaway adhu maadhu urai "Madurai" ena vazhangapattadhu enbadhu en karuththu.

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The ThiruviLaiyaadal PuraaNam relates the incident of how the place got its name.
To create this city, Siva took his serpent and placed it on the ground.
The serpent of Siva took its tail in its mouth and became a circle. The circle of serpent became the borders within which the city was created.
Then Siva sanctified the place with drops of the Divine Nectar(Amirtham) from His hair-locks(Minnaar Senjadai).
The name "Aalavaay" was derived from the circle of serpent and "Madurai" from Amirtham.
It was also known as the "Naan Maada Kuudal".

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Dr. JayBee,
Thanks a lot for the input. Do I take your words as a hypothesis ? How would you 'counter' the theory that Madurai was named after Mathura?
What about what Kuloththunga Cholan's view? and what is the 'popular' thought amongst the historians?

Vijay

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Another theory is that 'maruthai' maruvi became madurai. 'maruthai' is a kind of tree ??

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>>>>>From: vj (@ chme6pc4.ecn.purdue.edu) on: Tue Aug 24 18:06:24
Dr. JayBee,
Do I take your words as a hypothesis ? How would you 'counter' the theory that Madurai was named after Mathura? <<<<<

"Then Madurai" was certainly more ancient than Mathura. That again depends very heavily on whether you beleive in the Kumari Land lore or not.

>>>>>From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Tue Aug 24 20:22:46
Another theory is that 'maruthai' maruvi became madurai. 'maruthai' is a kind of tree ??<<<<<

Its the other way round. Folks from Madurai and Ramnad call it "Maruthai". But they also call "kudhirai" as "kuruthai".
Marudhu is a kind of tree. Its the Holy Tree of Thiruvidai Marudhuur. Madurai is associated with the Kadamba tree. The temple is built over site of a forest of Kadamba trees called Kadamba Vanam.
There is a very beautiful and touching story concering a Marudhu tree and the Marudhu Brothers, associated with the building of the big 'thEr" of KaaLaiyaarKoyil.