ராஜாவை அதிகம் பாதித்த இசை வல்லுனர்கள்

[app_engine]

Is it just me or there are others who think that Raja's melodies underwent some inexplicable change post his association with MSV during MTK?

[Sureshs65]

app_eng,

You are 'okkadu', meaning you are alone I personally don't see too much change I should say. Others can give their opinion.

[Sureshs65]

Nice, insightful posts, Sureshji!

My thought about MSV's influence was more on the melody side - orchestration was way different and that was the reason for Raja's slam-bang entry into TFM.

I didn't include the influences of his native (Pavalar & him mom / others) as that will win easily and possibly the biggest. We can grant that part as his real roots





I get reminded of the andha 7 nAtkaL scene where aspiring composer Bagyaraj tries to create a tune with his harmonium and ends up with 'roop tErA mastAnA'

And the reply that Bhaygaraj gives when his 'shishyan' says it has already appeared in Hindi

[KV]

A_E, this one’s a very interesting topic, thanks. (you could maybe include the title in English as well, for benefit of the non-Thamizh folks here)
Suresh, beautiful write-up there; made a very interesting read.

We’ve heard Raja speak in high regard, on multiple occasions, of SDB, Roshan, Madanmohan, Salil, S-J, MSV, Devarajan and the likes. From whatever little I’ve listened to of these composers thus far, I’d tend to infer that the influence, in a broad sense of the word, lies in the significance of melodic content in their songs. All these names have lilting melodies to their credit. In using the word ‘melody’, it is more of the basic structuring and flow of tune that I have in mind and relatively lesser of the instrumentation built around the tune. Inspired by several such phenomenal tunesmiths who preceded him, I guess IR's outlook was to incorporate this element of melody with instrumentation of increased sophistication. Thus was born, I imagine, the ‘Raaja genre’, the crux of which would be 'integration' - of various genres, styles and schools. Ask any keen listener of IR's music about the foremost differentiating factor in his work and it'd, most likely, point at this concept of 'integration', through which the music seemed to be elevated to new, unheard-of levels. Oops, I'm afraid I've veered a bit off track here!

Getting back to topic, if we look at bringing in some specificity, I'd like to start with SDB's effect on IR; zooming in a bit more, the influence of SDB solos. One quality I find, quite visibly common, in many of his solos is the stark rawness, in emotion, singing and orchestration. With minimal arrangement - a harmonium humming along in the background, a simple tabla beat keeping rhythm, soulful flute pieces punctuating the vocals - SDB's rendering, in his trademark, unpolished tone, gives his solos a wildbird-cry-like feeling. Here's a taste of it: http://www.sensongs.com/SDBurman-SunMereBandhu.html
I've always felt that this has had a sound influence on IR solos, with many of his solo songs having similar qualities of minimalist-orchestration and raw-emotions in them. I'm not sure if I can map this at a song-to-song level, but this subset, of solos of these two artists, to me, operate at similar levels. Another aspect of SDB's composing is the frequent usage of Misra chapu and Rupaka thalam, which many modern day composers, with the exception of IR, don’t seem to employ with regularity.

Now, moving on to particular songs where I’ve felt the influence of other artists, here are some.
‘Oru Veedu Iru Ullam’ from Avar Enakke Sontham, (year 1977, very early phase of IR’s career), is a beautiful SPB solo, which could easily pass off as a song from KB+MSV 70s movie. http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00066&lang=en

Sample this one - Velai Velai from Pickpocket (1989) – a song that I’ve felt is a direct tribute to MSV’s Viswanathan velai vendum. http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00491&lang=en

Year 1982 saw the birth of one of IR’s finest ever work - Eera Vizhi Kaaviyangal. The song ‘Kanavil Midhakkum’ (http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00125&lang=en) a timeless composition that operates on the lines of psychedelic/progressive rock, effortlessly transports one to a dreamworld – deliciously trippy! If I were to imagine any possible influences for this song, it would be the songs ‘Cadence & Cascade’ and ‘I talk to the wind’ by the band King Crimson.


The breezy flow, the dreamy feeling, the psychedelic flute pieces are some aspects that Kanavil Midhakkum shares with these two songs.

So much for now! I’m quite aware that I could be making one too many readings here and most of these could just be figments of my imagination. Blame my ranting on the man and his music!

[Sureshs65]

Nice post KV. I haven't heard many of the songs you have mentioned to comment. Now I have what Usha would call 'homework'

In the meanwhile, there are some songs which seem to inspire multiple people. Roshan's wonderful 'Oh re taal mile nadi ke jal mein', sung wonderfully by Mukesh is one such song. This seems to have inspired both KV Mahadevan and Illayraja. Atleast I feel the similarity between them.

Here is Roshan's song from the movie 'Anhoki Raat':



Here is A K V Mahadevan song from the movie 'Siri Siri Muvva'. Not a copy of Roshan's song but you can clearly hear its influence



And then this much liked Raja song. Again no straight comparison but I do feel there is an influence. What do others think? (Before clicking the link can you guess the song? Slightly difficult one. The influence is more straightforward in K V Mahadevan's song)

[app_engine]

KV, I'm not able to edit the title (I could do it in the old forum, need to learn "how to" in this one)...

[V_S]

Nice and interesting thread App and great posts by Sureshji, KV, thumburu. About that Roshan's influence on KVM and Raja, KVM's song can be clearly seen as direct influence, but I guessed about the Raja song (before clicking) could be either 'Raja Enbar Mandhiri enbar' or 'Pitchai paathiram', but as usual I was wrong. Without spoiling with the answer, the song you mentioned also shows Roshan's influence on Raja, but could not imagine how Maestro adapted and created a perfect local folk song in his own style. Amazing!!

[Sureshs65]

VS,

That is right. Raja has internalized the elements of the Roshan's song and has gone on to create his own song. Something which he does all the time !!! This is what inspiration should be all about.

[raagas]

Suresh65 has nailed it bang on, about influences. I dont need to write anything more, thanks to him

I also feel that the influence component in IR music consists of lot of Salilda and the Burmans. Though he does hold C.Ramchandra, Roshan and Madan Mohan in high esteem, their influence in his music is minimal, atleast compared to the Burmans and Salilda. The 2nd interlude in "Mannil Indha" Song has a string section that distinctly reminds me of the string section in the interlude of "Jaa re, ja udd ja re panchi" (Maaya) by Salilda. Or why, even those flute pieces that punctuate some of the lines, in IR songs, is S.D.Burman signature in his songs. The treatment given to "Surmayi Ankhiyon mein"(Sadma), atleast in interludes, is distinctly Burman-sque.The school of thought that pushes IR to take folk music of the lands and wrap it in film music is something that the Burmans,Salilda have adopted.

[rajasaranam]

Here is Roshan's song from the movie 'Anhoki Raat':

The moment the initial humming came I thought about a song and when it went onto pallavi and charanam I confirmed it can never be any other song than which I thought. Bingo I was right! How can any Raaja Fan not find this out?