Oscar Thamizhan 'Isaipuyal' AR Rahman News/Updates

[stULana]

There is a gap..I don't intend to provoke or debate to convince you otherwise, but you seem to have missed ARR's indirect jibes, twice at IR, in the NDTV interview. Just to put it in the right perspective, please read these two snide remarks he made about IR and judge the genuiness of his good words, which could make you see some sense in what IR fans see.

ARR said:
"..not like those days..which was like a fort..they hold it and 'we are the only one'.."

Q: Singers says 'Rahman lets you do what you want', is that true?

A: If I compose a melody and they're going to struggle with that, its wasting their time and my time. But if you know the flow what they're good at, then you adapt the style of composition to their style, its much easier. I know the composers who've done that before, they'd call a musician, give them stuff which they can't play, and they would play so badly, and they would have a kind of 'sadistic' (laughs..pauses) you know 'happiness', 'see you couldn't play what I gave'. That's not my trip. My trip is music has to flow, music has to be happy, both the composer and the performer has to be happy. So, when I'm doing a song in Yaman (raagam), and I give it to Hariharan who could do anything with Yaman, you just give the basic stuff, and then stick on to the tune and they do some 'harkat' to that which is beautiful. And you start enjoying it. Thats the kind of thing. I don't say 'don't use that, that's not my composition.' I mean classical music is not like that, you can't change Bach's tune. <sings> You can't change that. It has to be like that. But when you're creating it, you're the composer, the spontaneity is the thing."

Obviously, ARR did not mean MSV there and we all know it was IR he had in mind.

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndt...success/289981

Regd fort: He says when doing 12 movies an year (for how many years? and taking others' inputs), he could not give enough time for personal life, etc. IR was doing ~30+ movies per year (songs + background score) for many years. Imagine the kind of sacrifices (personal life etc.) he had to make. It was not to hold a 'fort' as ARR puts it; it was about living and breathing music as a way of life. There was no time for IR, except to compose/write music for all those ~30+ movies/year. People would go to him, and he delivered
He has not learnt soft skills even till date..so may not express/come across as sophisticated as some educated may.

Regd 'sadistic' (laughs..pauses) you know 'happiness':
1) (Re)Confirms ARR taking inputs from musicians as per his work style, which also sort of explains why he had to acknowledge various musicians on album covers (sort of co-MDed tunes/music). Not doing so would be embarassing to him..as others have contributed to the tune/song. This should put 'acknowledge various artistes on albums' in the right perspective and not mistaken as a mark of humility/selflessness (as was being projected in the past). In IR's case, all notes are his. He did acknowledge VS Narasimhan (HTNI) and Pt. Hari Prasad Chaurasia (NBW) as he regards them as highly skilled musicians - at a different level much above the ordinary.
2) Pt. Balesh (Sehnai) who plays for IR says he has been taking it as a challenge to play IRs complex notes (http://venuvanamsuka.blogspot.in/2011/04/blog-post.html).
Likewise, IR kept pushing his own limits constantly and of singers like KJY, SPB, SJ etc., resulting in giving their best output for many years. Guitar Prasanna had said that IR heightened the playing standards of TN musicians, much better than the Bollywood counterparts. All this was possible only when he gave them challenging tunes to play/sing, which they felt they probably cannot. It was like pushing to reach greater heights.

Most musicians say IR is like a master/teacher. KS Chitra told recently on a TV show that she feels like standing up even when talking over phone to people like KJY and IR (out of respect). It is obvious ARR (and semi-singer Srinivas) lack any such respect, and did/do not want to consider IR along the lines of that 'strict' 'master'. Young blood you see , so understandable and fair enough. But, carrying that hurt/ego for over 20-25 years? So, much for 'humility' and 'ego'!! (SJ Surya has joined the club too )

And so, semi-singer Srinivas could not take it that way, failed in the movie/music industry, and goes around making snide remarks every now-and-then on IR (even when praising ARR). It only shows semi-singer Srinivas and ARR's 'sadistic (laughs..pauses) you know happiness' remarks are a result of their hurt/ego some 20-25 years back when they were kids 'growing up'. This clip sums it up http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1466962

IR is very disciplined and gives some leeway to some who have proved themselves..like legends KJY/SB/PS/SJ..who were not teenage kids 'growing up'.

"I mean classical music is not like that, you can't change Bach's tune. <sings> You can't change that. It has to be like that.":
That is what ARR thinks. But for IR, even when singing Idhayam Oru Kovil with only his harmonium as the accompaniment, he did not change the tune or make improvisations to it, even when singing in front of his fans (on their adhoc request) during a recent film music composing session done in front of the public. That, staying true to his compositions, for IR is plain discipline..at 70 years. Probably just another trait of a genius called IR!

Having known IR for over 25 years now, it is unfortunate that ARR terms such a discipline towards music and a genius as 'sadistic' (laughs..pauses) you know 'happiness'. KJY/SPB and others did not think so. So much for being 'humble' and labelling the other as egoistic/sadistic!

As another fan said elsewhere, IR "would not just go away" for the genius that he is..and ARR did open up a little after all these years.

Competitions or not, beyond all that, we still get to hear IR's pure music when opportunity provides itself, his latest, Original Score from Mysskin's Onayum Aatukuttiyum: http://www.lonewolfproductions.in/downloadbgm.jsp
Listen to #8 Walking through Life and Death and decide if it is 'sadistic' happiness or the happiness of bringing up our local orchestra to world class. He need not credit others on album covers as each and every note is Raaja's/IR's music (like Bach's tune). The album is the finest WCM from India, but it has Raaja's stamp all over it. That is IR's music

Based on the 'fort' and 'sadistic' comment of ARR, it is up to you fans to deduce the genuineness behind those praises/unwanted remarks.

[PS: Wanted to keep it short initially, but turned bigger mentioning some details. Sorry about that. Like I said in the beginning, I don't intend to provoke or debate to convince you otherwise.]

[JamesDap]

Even when garnered the Oscars, we have witnessed some strange remarks from IR side.

1) Films like Titanic have won Oscar while far better films went unrewarded so Oscar is only a stamp of popularity, not necessarily of quality. An Oscar does not obligate a senior colleague or ARR to change his position.


2) If people want to infer things into what IR said at that function, then I don't see how they are giving any more benefit of doubt to IR than IR fans have to ARR on this interview.

3) isaifan has already talked in detail about the sadistic composer remarks. I will not comment on whether he indeed implied IR even if the implication is pretty obvious. But let me just say even if he did not imply IR, there is no need to comment on the approach of other composers. If he likes to make singers comfortable and is prepared to tweak a composition for that, fine....it doesn't make his approach better or worse than that of his colleagues, so there is no need to call them sadistic.

4) I do agree on the last point you made in your comment. So, the main reason that there is a reaction to this interview from IR fans is there is a constant attempt by the media to build up an image of IR as a certain kind of person by twisting his remarks, with complete disregard to his work ethic, commitment, discipline and enthusiasm for perfection. He has set standards for the film industry for years and years and the only thing people are interested in is what he said or didn't say.

I fully agree that people should not attach too much importance to what the composer says in interviews about each other because they are, ultimately, rivals and there will be some ego issues. But that then should also apply to IR, you can't have it both ways.

[venkkiram]

என் நிலை இதுதான். அதையும் சொல்லிவிட்டுச் செல்கிறேன். எனக்கு ராஜா, ரஹ்மான் பேசுவதில் எது சரியாகப் படுகிறதோ அதை புகழ்ந்துவிட்டு, எது சரியெனப் படவில்லையோ அதை விமர்சிக்க என்றுமே தயங்கியதில்லை. சமீபத்தில்தான் இந்த காணொளியைக் கண்டேன். ஆரம்பத்தில் ரஹ்மான் அந்த நிரூபரிடம் என்ன சொல்கிறார் என நீங்களே பாருங்கள். தான் இசைக்கு வரும்வரையில் இந்திய இசையில் இருந்ததெல்லாம் நாட்டுப்புற இசையும், (இந்திய) சாஸ்திரிய இசையும் மட்டும்தான் என்ற ரீதியில் அடித்து விடுகிறார் பாருங்கள். பல்வேறு மேற்கத்திய இசை வடிவங்களை ராஜா..அவருக்கு முன்னாள் எம்.எஸ்.வி, கே.வி போன்ற இசை மேதைகளே பயன்படுத்தி இருக்கிறார்களே! அப்படியிருக்க, இவர் பேசுவது சோற்றில் முழுப் பூசணிக்காயை மறைக்க முயலுவதை ஒத்தது. இந்த நேர்காணலை ஏதோ 1992ல்/அதற்கு அப்புறம் பிறந்த குழந்தைகள் மட்டுமே கேட்கப் போகிறார்கள் என ரஹ்மான் நினைத்துவிட்டாரா? எல்லாம் வல்ல இறைவனுக்கே வெளிச்சம்.

[music man]

Venkkiram Sir!!! That was a nice video...Loved the way ARR explained how he composes based on raga. Very good one...Yes...He was wrong...Western genres were experimented a million times before he came in Roja. Right from MSV,KV,SD,RD SC, IR days...May be he would have intended to say that there was a lot of classical based music going on Indian film scene..Even the so called Western compositions had their base in Indian ragas and only the outer coating was presented in waltz/blues/jazz/pop etc styles...

Yes he erred there

[tifosi]

Just to put it in the right perspective, please read these two snide remarks he made about IR and judge the genuineness of his good words, which could make you see some sense in what IR fans see..

Remove ARR & IR from the equation, I have one basic question. If Jimmy Connors says John McEnroe is extraordinarily talented and gifted tennis player but highly short tempered and when he loses his cool, he doesn't know how to behave with others, would you question his JC's genuineness about his praise of McEnroe's talent?

Can't A say that B is genius, talented, gifted & sadistic at the same time? Do you mean to say if someone calls another talented & genius, shouldn't he say that the same person at times derives sadistic pleasure? Why should his genuineness be questioned?

Again to me ARR/IR is just a case in point.

[JamesDap]

Can't A say that B is genius, talented, gifted & sadistic at the same time? Do you mean to say if someone calls another talented & genius, shouldn't he say that the same person at times derives sadistic pleasure? Why should his genuineness be questioned?

The suggestion that a composer who is merely being exacting in his requirements from singers is being sadistic is pretty absurd. It is the most natural thing for a composer (just like a director of a film) to get exactly that out of the performers which he wants as per his vision. To further suggest that the composer deliberately writes tough parts to watch the musicians flounder and derive pleasure from it is even more absurd. And he has said all this, you can listen to the video if you don't believe my words. He has not characterised said composer as sadistic, rather he has questioned the composer's very methods of working and done it in the most subtle way to present it as something positive about himself. If ARR is prepared to compromise to help out his performers, that is his choice and he should likewise respect the approach of other composers.

[music man]

Actually I thought of not replying...But..let us understand..Both ARR and IR are legends in their own right...If I am not wrong, ARR from his very initial days has maintained that he respects IR's discipline and work ethic. It is based on his experiences. He has worked with most of the composers from his early age. He surely knows more the music industry. He was right in saying that many of the composers were addicted to drinking and other bad habits. Amidst them, he found IR as a person who was so disciplined and workaholic. Come on friends!!! The entire world knows what IR is famous for...He does not want to prove it to anyone. ARR has also worked under IR. He must have had his -moments with IR. I remember reading somewhere that for re-recording of Moodupani, IR rejected ARR as he was too young..Their association runs deep. IR has played under the guidance of R.K.Shekar. ARR has played under IR.

KJY/SPB will not consider IR's approach to be sadistic. KJY was a established name before IR stormed into TFM and IR had played in SPB troupe and theirs was a divine friendship. Let us not bring all those here. The entire music industry knows that IR is a taskmaster who strives for perfection.That is why even established singers shiver before him. ARR was a shy guy and a relatively young person and a known name in the film circles because of his father's association in the industry. Many newbie singers and new talent were given a fresh lease of life by ARR. He was a whizkid in synthesizers when he came into the industry. Because of his nature and different approach to music, he gave the freedom to musicians. This is also one way of extracting the best in their comfort zone. And his approach has made the entire world to look upon India.

Many composers throughout the world who have given masterpieces are mostly self taught or without complete mastery over the subject. IR and ARR became successful only because of their hard work and the pain they suffered in their life. IR is also a self taught composer. Vangelis was a self taught musician. He has won the Oscars..If only completely learnt musician is allowed to compose music..it will be like a boring technical analysis. Innocence has its own sweetness.

Electronic music is not very easy as everyone think. Today with all gadgets and VSTs it may appear easy. Just imagine 20 years back, how the masterpiece "Chandralekha" was programmed. It was all mastery over the subject and the utter ease at which he had composed. He was an emperor in his own right. No one can touch that place. IR can never compose like ARR and ARR can never compose like IR. We are blessed to have such truly talented musicians offering us rich music.

Rivalry is always there. ARR shaked IR's throne and IR has every reason to feel bad about it . ARR has every reason to feel bad when he hears the other legend passing off jibes/remarks in one or the other of his interviews.All musicians working under IR will be irritated and proud as IR will squeeze the work out of them and at the same time, they feel elated to work under IR. ARR was just sharing his experiences...Who knows he may be referring to even some other composer. There is nothing wrong and is he a jesus christ or some monk??? He is also a normal human being..

Let us not scrutinize each and every thing....Thirama irrukura idathula karvam kandippa irukkum...After all they are not normal human beings. They have experienced all possible fame and adulation that one can garner...Sorry for the long post...

[Sunil_M88]

Wait a minute, hasn't Raaja Saab taken more digs at Rahman Ji in the past? i.e. loops, ARR not being a composer, etc. The funniest dig I've witnessed whilst eating my bag of chips and drinking fizzy pop is e.g. A song in Azhgar Malai 2007 (Great album, I love Karuga Mani) called Ullagam Ippo sung by IR has the lines, "whosoever wishes to go away from this country may do as they please; I would remain here forever in the service of my people". Please tell me who is he referring to, OBVIOUSLY not Harris Jayaraj lol Anyways ARR had done a fabulous job as always at delivering a native Thamizh Anthem with Ah Aah title song. Obviously it seems IR and his fans seem to be oblivious to this composition. It's up to them if they want to leave their bubble?! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at others. Just to conclude, there's a quote by ARR which has been plastered around the net and media "“Until then I thought you had to drink or take dope to be a good artist. But Ilayaraja was making such beautiful music and leading a pure life!” ” I was under the impression that if its music, whoever it is, they must have some bad habit. When I saw them with drinks and drugs I thought ‘Oh! they are music people. They have to take drinks, smoke and cocaine to get their inspiration’. The man who changed these impressions altogether was only Illayaraja. He proved that he can make good music without any bad habits! Even now he is an inspiration for me being so religious today.”


Now all of a sudden the same man who inspired A.R. to become more pious, at a launch of a carnatic album said "Some persons claim that all the fame 'goes' to the Lord. This is wrong; why would be a God be in need of fame. Isn't He the one who showers on us fame and popularity and money? How can we 'return' to Him the fame given to us by Him? It won't be proper at all!"

Please tell me who is he referring to?

I'm silent because as a Rahman ji Devotee I don't care about childish accusations and believe this is all small talk but please don't mistake my silence for my weakness. Ella Pugazhum Iraivan oruvanuke

[JamesDap]

Sunil, to answer your question, I am not oblivious to it at all. There are many remarks of IR that I do not like, completely disagree with and do not care to defend. Rather, I am only pointing out that even ARR is very much capable of making backhanded compliments or sly insults. Rahman fans and the media have long tried to paint him as this saint who wouldn't hurt a fly, er, as somebody that IR for instance should learn from blah blah but now he has gone and done it. Any famous person has ego to some extent. IR is just very transparent about it while ARR has tried to cultivate an image to stay in the good books of the press.

[JamesDap]

ARR was just sharing his experiences...Who knows he may be referring to even some other composer. There is nothing wrong and is he a jesus christ or some monk??? He is also a normal human being..

But it is after he said something controversial that this acceptance has arrived, otherwise it was never forthcoming. I fully agree, as I have already said once, that neither should be subject to scrutiny for words because their legend derives from their music and not their words. But I emphasise the word neither. I only ask that the same should be applied to IR. If every other newspaper only carries articles trying to colour his remarks while at the same time remaining silent on what ARR says, you cannot expect IR fans not to react. When IR recently praised the musicians he had worked with in the 70s and 80s, saying today's musicians would not be able to work so efficiently, the media tried to twist even that as "IR challenges world's musicians". And, not necessarily on this forum, but ARR fans haven't missed these opportunities to join in the mud slinging.

In any case, what ARR said this time is not very respectful of his colleagues per se, irrespective of whether or not he implied IR. He doesn't HAVE to be respectful, it's a free world and I am also allowed to point out what is not respectful about it in a free world.