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23rd January 2005, 03:28 PM
#1
Senior Member
Platinum Hubber
How to identify ragas in carnatic music?
Topic started by CarnaticNewbie (@ emea-nc01.oracle.co.uk) on Sun Jan 9 04:29:36 EST 2005.
Hi
I do not have any training in classical music.I listen to lot of carnatic songs though.So,i have been able to identify ragas if it is same as the songs i've heard.but,when I hear an RTP in carnatic music,i'm not able to identify the raga.Is there any technique for identifying ragas in carnatic music.
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23rd January 2005 03:28 PM
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23rd January 2005, 03:28 PM
#2
Senior Member
Platinum Hubber
Lakshman (@ kit-*) on: Sun Jan 9 08:55:35 EST 2005
There is no easy way. If you keep listening to more and more alapanas you will learn to recognize the RTP ragas.
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23rd January 2005, 03:28 PM
#3
Senior Member
Platinum Hubber
Vignesh (@ emea*) on: Sun Jan 9 09:10:48 EST 2005
Lakshman
Thanks.Do the people who have learnt music in the formal way identify ragas by the arohanam and avarohanam when someone sings the alapana?
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23rd January 2005, 03:28 PM
#4
Senior Member
Platinum Hubber
Sridharan (@ syd-*) on: Wed Jan 12 20:25:31 EST 2005
People who do not know arohanam, avarohanam of a given raga can still identify a raga.
Observation of arohanam & avarohanam to identify a ragam might be sometime useful to distiguish two ragas are more-or-less similar to each other
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24th January 2005, 12:18 PM
#5
Administrator
Diamond Hubber
Actually, if you are familiar with light classical or film songs, some ragas can be identified easily by 'pattern matching'. Then, you can generalize it to identify other ragas. Rather it'll come automatically if you have the right ear for music. I can vouch for it because I came through this path
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27th February 2005, 09:50 AM
#6
Senior Member
Veteran Hubber
How to IDENTIFY Raagaas ?
// I do not have any training in classical music.I listen to lot of carnatic songs though.So,i have been able to identify ragas if it is same as the songs i've heard.but,when I hear an RTP in carnatic music,i'm not able to identify the raga.Is there any technique for identifying ragas in carnatic music.//
Although our Versatile Hearty Friend... Mr. RR ... has already touched this point... I will simplify it further.
The Capacity towards the Identification of Raagaas can be gained by one of the Two ways.
One is called by ... (Sangeetha) Saasthra-Gjnaanam = Learning the Theory of Music through a Teacher.
Second one... by Kaelhvi-Gjnaanam = Learning by Practical Observation and Grasping... Self-tuition.
Both these ways are applicable to learning Dances, or Any Language, Skill, Art or any other Talent.... commensurate with the individual Human-perception and Self-motivation.
While an illiterate Hunter... could learn the art of Bow & Arrow and prove his Best Skill competing with... "Even"... the Theoretical Learners ... ( so to mean... "Yaekalaiva")
Dear Friends... is it impossible to diifferentiate or discern and learn just to identify the Voice of the Birds?...
So are the Raagaas... How do we differentiate the Skreeks from various birds and identify the Bird-source... as Kuyil, Maina, Kuruvi, Kilhi, Mayil, Kaaka and so on...
... Just by hearing ... Grasping and recording in our Memory... Is it Not?
While moving into the interior forests... (for survey work).... I used to wonder on the amazing skill of the Hunters... hiding behind the Bush... creating various Shreeking-sounds of different Species of Birds... just by means of a six inch long flute.
They used to tell me... Sir... this is the weeping cry of a Female-Parrot... Now you will see... only Male-Parrots will rush to me".... To my amazement it exactly happened so.
Then a multi-coloured Bird I identified at a far off distance and asked him... " Can you make that Bird come to you?'
"Yes Sir.. indeed I can... although it is a very rare Specy of Maina... very difficult to differentiate from the Shreek of a Kuyil.... See I will fetch it come towards you..."
Then hiding behind me he blew his tiny flute which generated a peculiar Bird-sound un-heard-off by me till then... but amazingly undoubtable Bird sound ... a Non-flute-sound...
Oh!... Believe it Not... that Bird... Reciprocated... which was replied by the Artificial-tune of the Hunter... Then within Minutes that tiny Tot... Far Far off the distance dashed towards me... in a terrific speed... I had to run away.!!!.
Replying me the Huner said ... "that is the Love-Note I played... I can drive the same bird by playing a different Note of the same Bird... Then you will see the Bird will attack you... because that is the freightening Shreek of the same specy..." he said.
Is it enough to make you know... about Self-tuition....? It is very easy if you have the Qualification?
Only qualification is your heart to love Music.... coupled with a mad mad Thirst to somehow learn
I too came in the same way of RR... and Consequently competing with the Saastric-learned Musicians
... so advanced to indentify even intricate Ragas like Garudadhwani.
Most INVALUABLE TREASURE is.. Time.
Spend it MEANINGFULLY Spread effectively.
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27th February 2005, 02:35 PM
#7
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Thanks Sudhaama
As I said,i've been able to identify some ragas upto now(less than 10).When somebody sing the alapanai of keeravani,i immediately know that it is Keeravani because I heard the same alapanai being sung by Neyveli Santhanagopalan for Appar's "Vananai"[audio available in Nada Anuboothi site as well as musicindiaonline.com).
I liked the song so much that i would listen to it continuously for hours.
This is the same way i can identify other ragas.I would take liking for a particular song and listen to it lot of times and from then on,if there is another song or alapani sung like that,i know that this is of a particular raga.
But,i also want to know why is the alapanai of Keeravani sung in that way only?For this,i think we require some theoretical knowledge about music.if it easy for anyone to elaborate/elucidate on this point,i would be very happy indeed!
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28th February 2005, 09:17 AM
#8
Administrator
Diamond Hubber
viggop,
While one song may be enough to grasp the swarupa of some simple ragas, for many ragas (especially Melakarta) it is not enough, IMO. It would be like claiming I've seen the whole of India after only visiting Delhi. This is the problem in pattern matching approach. A beginner should listen to as many songs as possible before feeling confident in identifying ragas. Unless theoretically knowledge-able, he/she can be easily misled on close ragas e..g. hindolam,suddha hindolam,soorya,chandrakauns. But if he/she can recognize hindolam and at the same time tell me for songs on other 3 ragas that they are not hindolam, then I have to give you that his/her raga sense is great. Being able to tell that 'This raga is not the one I know' is itself a skill, IMO.
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28th February 2005, 10:54 AM
#9
Senior Member
Seasoned Hubber
Thanks RR
If i take a liking to a particular song,i then hear lot of songs in that same raga trying to find the patterns.
I still want some help to this question?
WHy is the alapanai of keeravani or charukesi or saveri sung in a particular manner? Is this based on the arohana and avarohana? most of the artistes sing in a similar manner so that a newbie like me can know what raga is sung but why do they sing it that way only for that particular raga?
Do they follow some formula etc?
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28th February 2005, 03:34 PM
#10
Administrator
Diamond Hubber
Originally Posted by
viggop
WHy is the alapanai of keeravani or charukesi or saveri sung in a particular manner?
I have observed this for ragas like Nadanamakriya, I hope some experts will answer this question. But I'm not sure everyone follows a specific pattern for keeravani,charukesi.. I have heard dissimilar alapanai's for these ragas (when it is sung detailed). I have usually found TNS's raga interpretation to be quite distinct. He starts with a few standard phrases but later as he explores, it's quite different from what standard artists sing.. So you may want to try him
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