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Thread: The Golden Era of Dr.IR and Dr.SPB

  1. #2781
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    #263 ஒரு காதல் என்பது என் நெஞ்சில் உள்ளது
    (சின்னத்தம்பி பெரிய தம்பி, 1987 , ஜானகியுடன்)


    Possibly the last song for this year in our collection (if there are any other major hits, please post ASAP). When this movie arrived and was running well, my colleague wanted me to go with him and I couldn't make it. When I heard this song the first time, I liked it but have never recorded or had the cassette because it was not credited to IR. Well, there had been often posts in the hub (including by me) of "correcting" people who assumed this to be an IR song. That the MD is Gangai Amaran.

    Then came the youtube where Gangai Amaran explained that this song was done by IR and he "borrowed" it (possibly Manivannan, the director did the purchase / borrowing). This song was reasonably popular - on buses / radio and even in the web. Very recently, during a trip I loaded a few hundred rAsA MP3s in a hurry using some disk that came from a relative in Bangalore and this was among them. That was the first time when I listened to this song in my own music system - it had terrific recording quality - and got amazed. How can anyone associate such orch with non-IR composers? Never!

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  3. #2782
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber V_S's Avatar
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    App,
    How about these:
    Eduthu Vechcha Paalum from Ninaive Oru Sangeetham, very famous Captain's song.
    Theerthakkarai Orathile from Theerthakkaraiyinile, Mike MOhan's hit song.
    Vaa VeLiye from Paadu Nilaave, Mohan-Nadhiya hit song.
    Jai's discovery, DeepangaLe OLi ThoovungaLe from Dhoorathu Pachchai- Psychedelic rock at it's best, but I don't think it was hit, it is a rare gem.

    As far as I know, first three are hits.
    Last edited by V_S; 19th January 2012 at 05:31 AM.

  4. #2783
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber groucho070's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al_gates View Post
    App,
    just curious. Did you buy a boatload of AA batteries those days to run your walkman? This used to be a sore point with me as pair of batteries can run for a listening time of only 48 hours and I have to wait for some days before asking parents for money to buy new batteries.
    Wish you knew me then. We prolong the life of these batteries by rubbing both points against the floor (cement floor the best). Yes! I still do it with our remote control batteries when too lazy to go out and buy em.
    " நல்ல படம் , சுமாரான படம் என்பதையெல்லாம் தாண்டியவர் நடிகர் திலகம் . சிவாஜி படம் தோற்கலாம் ..சிவாஜி தோற்பதில்லை." - Joe Milton.

  5. #2784
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber groucho070's Avatar
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    " நல்ல படம் , சுமாரான படம் என்பதையெல்லாம் தாண்டியவர் நடிகர் திலகம் . சிவாஜி படம் தோற்கலாம் ..சிவாஜி தோற்பதில்லை." - Joe Milton.

  6. #2785
    Senior Member Diamond Hubber groucho070's Avatar
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    And app, years going by fast, and am feeling sad. Hope even after the most recent SPB/IR, we can still go back and catch up on stuff you missed out. Great going as usual, boss, you are awesome.
    " நல்ல படம் , சுமாரான படம் என்பதையெல்லாம் தாண்டியவர் நடிகர் திலகம் . சிவாஜி படம் தோற்கலாம் ..சிவாஜி தோற்பதில்லை." - Joe Milton.

  7. #2786
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber V_S's Avatar
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    IlanchOlai Poothatha - Unakkaagave Vaazhgiren

    A brisk semi-classical dance number. Beautiful locations apt for the song at the temple background and also lush green landscapes ideal for dancing. Tailor made song for Sivakumar and "touch-me-not" Nadhiya. I was totally surprised in another song, 'Kannaa Unnai ThEdugiren' where she was looking and longing to meet her lover after a long time after some 'oodal'. When he comes before her, what do you expect her to do?. I was astonished to see him with grim face (he and director cannot do anything as strictly instructed by Nadhiya) and she is giving all expressions, but she is not going anyway near to him at all, forget about 'touch-me'. Too plastic scene that was. Luckily this one escaped all that being a dance number, so she is free from those restrictions as she is dancing her way, still keeping her distance from Sivakumar, whenever he approaches her (I am dancing you know), with a plastic smile intact. One big plus being Nadhiya sporting a big 'bindhi' which we cannot see in any heroines of today's films. Every time a plus has to be compensated by a big minus. That is, a truck load of flowers on her head, takes away the beauty of the dance costume. Sivakumar almost dances when he walks as he makes all hand and leg gestures with wonderful facial expressions which resemble dancing and not to forget everything is strictly to lyrics. Sorry, was just sharing some lighter moments. Definitely we all know, Sivakumar a thorough and sincere actor, friendly to every director. Visually no complaints, wonderfully done, except some dance shots were at a very wide angle, not sure what director/cinematographer wants to convey.

    This inimitable and aboorva composition was composed in Dharmavathi raagam (a melakartha raagam) set to Aadi thaalam. Other notable compositions from Maestro in this raagam are Konji Konji (Veera), Meedum Meendum Vaa (Vikram) and the 1st charanam of Pularkindra Pozhuthu (ULiyin Osai). Are there any other?

    Just by hearing, I can definitely tell SPB is singing for Sivakumar. SPB does not change his voice only for Kamal or Rajini, but for Sivakumar, Mohan, Ramarajan and many others. Only singer who can do it. If we credit Maestro for this numero uno composition, SPB deserves equal credit for taking it further and adds more beauty and nuances with this excellent singing. It's a beauty how SPB sings every note with some outstanding gamakams, to enrich the sweetness. Without him the song would not have reached this height. If any aspiring singer or even the current set of singers want to enhance their skills this is one of the song they need to practice to achieve mastery, especially on the emotions side.

    SPB glitters in initial aalaapanai. When he starts singing, thampura gives the sruthi and flute replicates the aalaapanai. Flute took me to the starting flute in Azhaikkiran Madhavan (not sure why, as that was subhapantuvarali). Next part of aalapanai is replicated by veena. That's where Nadhiya intends to dance first in her mind where we hear the ankle bells. The best part of aalapanai is when flute and veena mimic the aalaapanai alternatively, but the last aalaapanai is mimic'ed by both instruments together. One of the best aalapanai one could hear in film music.

    Veena speaks his mind and flute speaks her mind. As soon as he starts singing, we can hear the same tune repeated in flute just as her mind is echoing his singing. Every time it does and at last both veena and flute play together in 'sangamam' as both their minds are tuned together to perform the classical art. But the actual situation is, Nadhiya is in her dream dancing to Sivakumar's singing. I also tend to think in another reverse way. Hero is playing veena, where veena is akin to her mind (rather than his), while the heroine tries to speak/understand his mind through the flute, as they both care for each other and then the sangamam happens. Little more interesting?

    Maestro does not start composing the song for a classical dance straightaway (even though I assume director would have said it is a dance song). The prelude time is required to get into the dance mode as she is not yet ready for that. This is like indirectly asking the director to do the initial homework before the dance. Imagine the song without that aalaapanai. Gone with the wind!

    If you closely observe during the prelude and pallavi, she is intermittently seen as dancing few steps and she is back into that room listening to the song. She goes back to the dream and comes back. Again during the prelude she does not even get a good picture where she is dancing, director aptly shows only her feet. This continues till the pallavi is over and into the charanam. Will explain the beauty of interlude little later.

    The tabla roll when SPB starts singing the pallavi is very rare phenomenon which we don't get to hear often. When he repeats the pallavi again, the tabla roll is different. For the third time when he repeats the pallavi, what and how do you think Maestro would have played the rhythm. He has completely gone mad and introduces mridangam, totally unexpected. Unbelievable touch from Maestro! Cracking shot that is! Before we recognize the switch over, it is there. Another best part of this pallavi is he also introduces the bass guitar that too at unconventional places. Definitely I was expecting a bass guitar as it is his style of composing (even that is not a standard for this type of composition), he plucks the chords at 'chOlai' rather than at 'iLanchOlai'. Sameway at thathaa instead of at poothathaa, at jaalam instead of at ennajaalam, at kOlam instead of at vanna kOlam and so on. This can be seen as giving stress to those words rather than it's adjectives.

    We can even find similar style in Western classical/Jazz where sometimes we need to have alternate chord placement to stress the melody note, against what we think where the melody is. Definitely there could be more reasons for the chord placements. But what a thought process in those few seconds. Who would care where he places the chords, or who would care if the chord is there or not? Why would he then do it? That's the completeness we are talking about in every Maestro's composition. That's the sincerity we are talking about. In those flurry of movies at around 50 movies per year, he never compromises and never becomes lazy to put those chords that too at appropriate places, even he knows many will not take notice, definitely in this semi-classical number.

    We have already seen the tremendous amount of innovation in the first minute right in the rhythm, instruments and in the chord placements. On top of all this, a honey-soaked aalaapanai, pallavi-anupallavi emerging as Godess Dharmavathi.
    இளஞ்சோலை பூத்ததா என்ன ஜாலம் வண்ண கோலம்
    ஒரு பூந்தென்றல் தாலாட்ட சில மேகங்கள் நீரூற்ற
    இளஞ்சோலை பூத்ததா….

    Wonderful lyrics!

    Generally when we think of something, sometimes it does not come to our mind immediately, it will be at the tip of our mind, but does not come out. That's where Maestro starts the first interlude with few heavy violin strokes, symbolizing the flow of our mind and then suddenly it rings a bell in her (please observe director shows temple bell). Yes she got it now where she is dancing. I cannot stop appreciating the director having exactly conceived what Maestro would have thought while composing. Just after the ring of the bell, we first time see the temple backdrop. Beautiful! She gets a full picture now. She is seeing herself now dancing and could not stop dreaming. The initial flow of violins and flute show that. After that there is little drop in the flow. Why? After she is seeing herself, she wants to have a good closer look of her at various postures and admire herself. That's where we hear some xylophone sort of sound from the keyboard and flute between every stroke of mridangam. She dreams her various dance postures. Definitely during these later portions of the interlude, a dance cannot be performed, so director cleverly used that footage to show various postures. Excellent synchronization between the music and the visuals, one of the best, if not the best. Again the director superbly swaps the shots by showing real Nadhiya(in her dream) and Nadhiya dancing. So here we are, till the end of this interlude, she is not fully in her dreams, nor she is fully at present. This is where Maestro's impromptu works. He brings veena here to stop dreaming only of her, reminding her to dream about her lover too, remember we already associated veena with her lover.

    Have to tell about that temple bell sound which we just heard. During our earlier days of listening, sounds like this temple bell will occur only once in the entire song. Even after watching the films also we could not much understand why Maestro is teasing us by giving such sounds only once and why does he not continue those beautiful sounds atleast for sometime. Here it would sounded rhythmic too if continued. Now having come through years of listening, now we can understand the reason. The reason is we just saw above. Strictly for the situation and even if it is needed for beauty or ornamentation of the song, strictly No from Maestro!. Director has again perfectly nailed that sound in visuals. Again, whenever I start writing about his compositions, especially the interludes, he gives me appropriate and convincing argument of every instrument used every time, never thought he did not answer me or let me down. If a novice like me gets so much from his compositions, I could not imagine, what's in Maestro's store for serious listeners and experts like.

    The charanam gets sweeter and sweeter. We continue were we left off. From the charanam she does not come back to her present till the song is over. She is completely dissolved in it. So we can even see new locations where she is dancing and now she is even thinking of her lover. My favorite lines: "ஒருமௌனம் தீர்ந்தது, சுதியோடு சேர்ந்தது" What a line! Please listen how SPB pronounces 'சுதியோடு' exactly as written, as there is no "shru" in Thamizh. Charnam is SPB all the way. Excellent gamakams at the end of every line. The gamakams during these lines, SOlai engum sugantham, meendum ingE vasantham is just superb. Also please listen to the instrument following 'meendum ingE vasantham'. You can smell vasantham here in Maestro's music. Again only once! Take a deep breathe to get the vasantham. Maestro beautifully composed keeping the first two lines at higher octaves, then the next two lines in middle/lower octaves, going up again for the next two lines and stays here except a small dip at 'maayam alla mandhiram alla' for mridangam to take over to pallavi. Beautiful variations, one of the best by Maestro, making it one of the sweetest ever song from Maestro.

    Second interlude is brisker than the first one. So much happening there. Normally while dreaming there will not be much correlation between the events that's what this interlude portrays (according to me). As you can see, she is now confused what to focus on her dream, whether the postures she saw during the first interlude, or the one which she is seeing now or the ones with her lover. So she juxtaposes her images randomly. Big Sabaash to the director again! I have never heard a better mridangam in a film song (atleast not in the last 35 years). Please hear it to believe it. Astounding! The play of violins, flute and mridangam clearly brings us the state of her mind. I have even stated there were some long shots, I wasn't sure at that time, but now it makes sense. It is a dream anything can happen, sometimes the images can be closer, sometimes not. You can see what we dream of typically and we have not imagined too. I would even say it as a great test between the music and the visuals. Even if we don't care for the visuals, this is a perfect classical interlude we have ever heard. If you are a classical dancer, automatically your feet will dance to this interlude or atleast wanting to dance. Just a glorious piece of music!.

    Again in 2nd charanam what lines!

    ஊமையாய் போன சங்கீதம் ஒன்று
    இன்று தான் பேசுதோ (please watch out for excellent gamakams by one and only SPB)
    மேடை இல்லாமல் ஆடாத கால்கள்
    இன்று தான் ஆடுதோ
    கண்ணில் என்ன கனவோ (please watch out for excellent gamakams by one and only SPB)
    நெஞ்சில் என்ன நினைவோ
    நம்மை யார்தான் கேட்ப்பது (Here comes the triple A's, please watch out for excellent gamakams by one and only SPB, This one line, especially 'KEtpathu' I admit, I became slave for SPB's singing. I can even challenge to any singer if they can sing this line exactly like SPB)
    விதிதானே சேர்ப்பாது

    In that word KEtpathu, you can hear not just the gamakams; but yEkkam, Azhugai, santhosham, kaadhal, whatever emotions you line up, everything is right there! Singing genius unparalleled!
    This is a rare song atleast from the picturization point of view, as we don't get to see often great visuals in Maestro's music. Again we are talking about instrument level! Big applause to the director Great lyrics. Is it by Vairamuthu? Normally for a classical dance composition like this, not much concentration given for lyrics, still Maestro opted for Vairamuthu and he delivered.

    We have heard V Dakshinamoorty's (one of Maestro's mentor) Nanda en Nila. I heard this was composed in Madhuvanthi (janya of Dharmavathi). There are only a very few songs in this raagam and only very few songs which has that sweetness and carry us till our life. Again sung by our dearest SPB. If you listen to this song, you can never stop listening to it. Such is the composition and such is SPB's singing, touching our deepest hearts. Incidently, I see IlanchOlai Poothathaa as a rich tribute by Maestro to his mentor. I even think of Maestro using the same family of raagam (Dharmavathi) just because as they all belong to one family, which is music. Even here, Maestro chose our SPB to sing this greatest composition. And both are solos. This song should be among SPB's top best. A composition Maestro should be proud of. A composition SPB should be proud of. A composition musicians who played should be proud of. A composition director should be proud of. A composition Nadhiya and Sivakumar should be proud of acted in it. A composition every listener should be proud of as we don't get to hear this kind of music often (now, not at all).

    A composition music should be proud of! VEnu gaanam!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kOLgcCu3VQ
    Last edited by V_S; 19th January 2012 at 09:14 PM.

  8. #2787
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber V_S's Avatar
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    Sorry App for taking such a long time. Still not sure if I have done any justice to this master composition, with my very limited knowledge. Also would like our experts to analyze technically and also point out any of my mistakes.

  9. #2788
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    ஆஹா, வி_எஸ்-ஜி, பிரமாதம்!

    இவ்வளவு அற்புதமான ஒரு கட்டுரை எழுதிட்டு எதுக்கு இந்த 'ஸாரி, பூரி, குப்பத்தொட்டி லாரி' எல்லாம்?

    If a novice like me gets so much from his compositions, I could not imagine, what's in Maestro's store for serious listeners and experts like.
    தமிழ்க்கலாச்சாரத்தை (தன்னடக்கம்) ரொம்பவே கடைப்பிடிக்கிறீங்க!

    நீங்களெல்லாம் novice-னா அப்புறம் இந்த serious listener / expert அப்படீங்கறது யாரு? ஒன்னு ரெண்டு உதாரணம் சொன்னா நல்லா இருக்கும்

    இந்த விஷயத்துல உங்கள மாதிரி நம்மூர் ஆளுங்க, ராசா கிட்ட இருந்து கொஞ்சம் கத்துக்க வேண்டி இருக்கு

  10. #2789
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    nanRi groucho, for the kind words and also the youtube link!

    Going by V_Sji's post, the year is not over yet At least one more song is in "my" hit list (eduththu vachcha pAlum) that is not on thiraippadal - will have to get another link to post...

    OTOH, V_Sji,
    I have already posted about my non-familiarity with the 'vA veLiyE' number
    Same goes with the theerththakkariyinilE song which I've never heard before.

    So, I guess such songs need to be discussed without "numbering" (or later, as recommended by groucho)

  11. #2790
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    #264 எடுத்த வச்ச பாலும்
    (நினைவே ஒரு சங்கீதம், 1987 )


    The coolgoose (that became cooltoad - what a metamorphosis) link for the SPB version of the song is inside the above post by SP ammA (she does not like to be called chEchi/akkA). She has also posted the lyric there. With due respects to her reactions to TFM, I can't say if this song can have any kind of emotional impact on me. Just an "easy listening" kind of number. For the SJ version, check this thiraippAdal link . A sweet, typical late-80's IR song. idhu mAthiri eththanai eththaniyO That way, neither the lines nor the melody / orchestration created any "wow" feeling in me then & now. It was a hit song nevertheless, from a Vijayakanth movie. (It's very much possible that the movie had a successful run as well, me don't remember...Honest is the right person for stats on VK).

    EththamayyA Eththam - onakku romba EththamayyA Eththam was my fav number from this movie those days. The interesting slEdai use of the word Eththam (1.mechanism to fetch water for krishi 2. kozhuppu) caught the ears on the very first listen. I have a faint memory that tells me of watching this song on "oliyum oLiyum" where Radha was full of kuRumbu, supported by the excellent singing of Chithra and MV the apt choice for the pattikkAttu hero.

    From what I remember, the one on screen was not the kind of water-fetcher that was used in our area.

    What we had in my appA's village / surrounding area was the one pulled by bulls and it was a wonderful sight to watch the process (and listen to the kreech-kreech sound). Their yoke was pretty much like the one used in the cart but it got attached to the rope that will pull the 'kavalai' (villager's slang for what the science teacher called as 'kamalai' when teaching pulley & related principles). The "run way" of the bulls is at almost 45 deg slope and they run with ease when pulling the water up and then lazily walk backwords after emptying pAni into vAikkAl.

    With the way in which minsAram gets rationed in TN, people may have to go back to Eththam / kamalai etc

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