HINDUSIM,IS IT A COMBINTION OF CULTURES, RELIGON OR SCIENCE?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

.


Conforming to Devotee's SELF-ASSIGNED Faith, Self-centred Perception...


...Mindset, Propensities, Imagination, Will and LOFTY WISHES.!



....although CONTRADICTORY amongst themselves.!!!

I am really sorry to say this, this is nothing but fanatism from vaishnavites, as Far as I know sankaracharya does not refer to the supreme being as 'naryayna'.

He does, at several places, as 'Narayana', 'Vishnu' or 'Hari'.

.... All this makes perfect sense if you understand what Adi Shankaracharya was trying to do

Podalangai sir,

I know he mentiones about Narayana, and all other names of God, but as Far as I know he does not refer naryana as 'Supreme being' he refers the supreme being as 'Parama Shiva' as far as I know

[img]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-Feb2008/Siva59.jpg[/img] 
[img]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-Feb2008/Sankara10.jpg[/img] 

First of all, I am unable to understand...

..why this UNNECESSARY discussion...

....amongst WE, THE FOLLOWERS...

....on who is the PARAMATHMA .... SUPREME GOD....

....the Omnipotent ONE SUPER-COMMANDER over all other Gods.

Hinduism is the only Religion which renders ample Freedom and Liberty to worship and believe any Vedic God as the Supreme, at the devotees own choice... and WILL.

Yes. If a Saivite believes Lord Siva as the Supreme God / Paramathma... he / she is at Liberty to believe and worship so.

Similarly a Shaaktha believes Shakthi or Kali as the Supreme Paramathma, he / she can worship and chant accordingly....

...and parallelly the other Sectarians amongst the Six Sects... created by One Paramaathma Narayana...

..as Various Elementary paths towards One Common Goal...

...by Sauram, Gaanapathyam, Kaumaram, Saivam, Saaktham and SWAABHAAVIKAM.

The Supreme God created for the convenience of Mosaic form of Humanity...

....seeking PRIVATE Options at the devotees own choice..

...similar to various sorts of Food as Options.... while all of them render the same nutritions in different forms and Ingredients.

Accordingly various Puranas... other than the common 18 Puranas... depict different Gods' Greatness... CONTRADICTING EACH OTHER...

..such as Muruga the Supreme... the Guru for Siva....

[img]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/Thiru-Feb07/Muruha3.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/Thiru-Feb07/Muruha2.gif[/img]

...Ganesa the Prime God who created other Gods...

...Vishnu and Brahma searched for the Head and Feet of Siva and failed by Adi-mudi Kaanhaa padalam (as portrayed by Nayanmars)....

..Shakthi Parvathi was defeated by Nataraja, Siva...

...Shakthi maatha is the Supreme creator Ruler over Vishnu Siva and other Gods...

..who as Kali, defeated Lord Siva...

[img]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/Thiru-Feb07/Kali2.jpg[/img]

. ...and so on.

...to suit the specific sectarian's SELF-CENTRED WISHES... although they are the VARIOUS FALSE BELIEFS...

...since Not True... conforming to Vedas.

So to mean... all these Six Sects are the various IMAGINARY FAITHS... as the tributary Feeder-paths....

....towards the ULTIMATE ONE COMMON MAIN PATH ....VAISHNAWAM....

....as clearly declared by Vedas.

The most interesting part of Vedic Religion Hinduism is... that it renders as the Sixth Option named as... SWAABHAAVIKAM...

By which the devotee can worship any Doll, Tree, Mountain, River or ANY OBJECT of his own making too.... as God... if he can believe it so.

In such a case, the Supreme God enters into that Object and renders His Grace...

...making the Devotees Faith as True... even though a False belief.

Vedas categorically assert that the Supreme Lord Paramathma is Narayana only...

....and Narayana only the PARAMESWARA in different forms and Names.

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Krishna Chaithanya, Thukaram as well as even the German Scholar Dr Max Muller... have further clarified that Truth... in ONE VOICE.

Sankaracharya too... has clearly asserted such a Vedic Truth as Narayana is the ONLY PARAMATHMA.

[img]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/Thiru-Feb07/Vishnu33.jpg[/img]

We can observe in Kerala Temples... even now-a-days...

...the devotees chant ACHA NARAYANA (Oh Father Narayana)... while entering Siva Temples ... and...

...AMMAE NARAYANA (Oh Mother Narayana)... while entering Shakthi temples...

...even if there may be NO SANNIDHI in those Temples... for GOD NARAYANA.!

That is the traditional custom laid down by Adhi Sankaracharya...

...to ELIMINATE ANY PROBABLE CONFUSIONS.... in the minds of Devotees on the ONLY Paramathma NARAYANA... as per Vedas...

...who bestows grace through different Gods, Forms and Names as per individuals choice and wishes.!

Vedic Religion Hinduism is extolled by Dr. Annie Besant, Dr Max Muller and several other International Scholars too...

....as the Great Religion... UNPARALLEL IN THE WORLD...

...mainly because of such WIDE OPTIONS... provided to cater to the varied individual devotees tastes and choices...

..conforming to the Devotee's own self-assigned Faith, Imagination and LOFTY WISHES.!

....although CONTRADICTORY amongst themselves.!!!
.

Kali defeats Shiva
Shiva defeats both Vishnu and Bhrama
Bhrama was cursed for lying about reaching shiva's head
Rama prayed to shiva in ramayana
Parsurama was Shiva bhaktha
krishna prays to shiva in duwapara yuga

--- I have not finished yet

Vishnu, bhrama and co could not drink the poison from vasuki, hence shiva helps out
shaivites says shiva created vishnu, bhrama and co
vaishnavites say vishnu created bhramma from his 'pokkuzh'
Maa ji created Shiva, Vishnu and Bhrama.

There was problems between Shaivites and Vaishnavites, so they came to resolve it by saying parvathi was vishnu's sister, hence vishnu became shiva's machaan, so they don't fight.. sssappaaa enna mudiyala

How on earth a Lehman could understand hinduism??? Contradiction at it's utmost level, various stories and myths based ' PERSONAL VIEWS' ... Ultimatley knowbody knows anything and we are all back to square one and will be in sqaure one

....This world exists for you when at one of your five senses are working, else none of these exists for you!

You mind your iontellect is based in half memeory (what you have learnt from your experience) and the rest imagination. THIS IS NOT THE REALITY OF LIFE

[pradheep]

THIS IS NOT THE REALITY OF LIFE

If you cannot rely on mind and intellect, what can you rely on?. What is the reality of life then?

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Krishna - The greatest devotee of Lord shiva.
Krisna doing Shiva Dhyan


Krishna is one of the greatest devotee of Lord shiva. As per mahabharata, krishna is believed to be the reincarnation of Narayan maharshi, who was also one of the greatest devotee of lord shiva. The Mahabharat and Shaiva puranas clearly says that Krishna was devoted to Lord shiva even in his past lives. Krishna explained 'Siva sahasranama' to yudhistara(Dharmaraja) and also told him how he got the supreme Advaita jnana (nondual knowledge) because of lord shiva. It was explained in Anushasan parva of mahabharat.

"
Rudra bhakthya thu krishnena jagat vyaptham mahathmana,
Tham prasadhya thadha devam bhadaryam kila bharatha.

Arthath priya harathwam cha sarva lokeshu vai yadhaa,
Prapthavaaneva rajendra suvarnaakshan maheswaraath."


Meaning:

The great Lord Krishna, due to his devotion to Supreme lord Rudra,Has spread all over the universe, Oh Bharatha, Oh king of kings,After making Lord Shiva pleased by his penance in Bhadrinath,He has attained the state of being more dear,Than all the worlds and all aspects of knowledge.

"
Yuge yuge thu krushnena thoshitho vai maheswara,
Bhakthya paramaya chaiva prathi sruthwa mahatmana. "

Meaning :
Lord Maheshwara becomes pleased and happy yugas after yugas, by this Krishna who is devotee of Lord Shiva.

Krishna got several boons from lord shiva even in his past life as Narayana muni.

Bhagavatam explicitly states that Krsna worshiped Lord Shiva .

"ekadā deva-yātrāyāḿ
gopālā jāta-kautukāḥ
anobhir anaḍud-yuktaiḥ
prayayus te 'mbikā-vanam ( SB 10.34.1)
"
Meaning:
One day Gopala along with his mates, eager to take a trip to worship Lord Śiva, traveled by bullock carts to the Ambikā forest ( SB 10.34.1)

"
tatra snātvā sarasvatyāḿ
devaḿ paśu-patiḿ vibhum
ānarcur arhaṇair bhaktyā
devīḿ ca ṇṛpate 'mbikām ( SB 10.34.2)"

"O King, after arriving there, Krsna along with his mates bathed in the Sarasvatī River and then devotedly worshiped with various paraphernalia the All powerful and all pervading Godhead Lord Paśupati [devaḿ paśu-patiḿ vibhum] and his consort, goddess Ambikā. ( SB 10.34.2)



Krishna and Gopis Worshiping Lord Shiva.

Lord Rama Worshiping the supreme lord Shiva.


Shiva Blessing Vishnu by giving Sudarshana Chakra as a Boon for his devotion towards him.


Krsna taking blessings from Supreme Lord Shiva
.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Sudhama sir

Pls explain the above posting !

[anbu_kathir]

Paramashivan Sir,

I think it is well known that these contradictions do exist. How to resolve this? I personally perceive nothing wrong in fervently believing in a particular way or sect. One might therefore claim a different interpretation. I guess it is only because of this acceptance of different interpretations that Hinduism has survived in its form today, as a religion which has preserved many of the archaic mythological forms without much change.

Of course, enforcing it upon someone else wouldn't be appropriate.

Love and Light.

Krishna - The greatest devotee of Lord shiva.
Krisna doing Shiva Dhyan
.

[PARAMASHIVAN]

Paramashivan Sir,

I think it is well known that these contradictions do exist. How to resolve this? I personally perceive nothing wrong in fervently believing in a particular way or sect. One might therefore claim a different interpretation. I guess it is only because of this acceptance of different interpretations that Hinduism has survived in its form today, as a religion which has preserved many of the archaic mythological forms without much change.

Of course, enforcing it upon someone else wouldn't be appropriate.

Love and Light.

Krishna - The greatest devotee of Lord shiva.
Krisna doing Shiva Dhyan
.

Exactly this is what ISKON do 'Brain wash' this is what i was trying to address.. but never worked, instead it all went every where

BTW, I am not a sir (certainly not old enough to me any way )

[PARAMASHIVAN]

THIS IS NOT THE REALITY OF LIFE

If you cannot rely on mind and intellect, what can you rely on?. What is the reality of life then?

Intellect has limitations even to GREATEST scholars

[anbu_kathir]

Exactly this is what ISKON do 'Brain wash' this is what i was trying to address.. but never worked, instead it all went every where

ISKCON has its share of sensible people. But as an organization, its ideals are a bit misplaced as you said; one more group which claims to have the 'only' way.. . There ain't much one can do about it. That "all paths lead to the same end" is true can be seen only from within when one has expanded beyond one's own ideologies. Argumentative responses from outside are generally either ignored or are dealt with using violence in thought, word or/and deed.

BTW, I am not a sir (certainly not old enough to me any way )

Ok, Sir :P.

Love and Light.

[Sudhaama]

.


HUMANITARIAN Outlook.... by BROAD-MINDED Soul-pursuit... Vital.!

Mankind being the Supreme-birth on Earth...

..born to exploit the Maximum benefit of Earthly birth... as ENRICHED MAN...


Human-Values, Social-sense and Unified advancement towards One COMMON God...


...by means of Super-Wisdom and HEARTY SPIRIT of Unity in Diversity


... must be cultivated within Ourselves... through SELF-REALISATION.!


.

Sudhama sir

Pls explain the above posting !

Dear PARAMASHIVA,

Please do not drag me into UNNECESSARY Discussions of PAROCHIAL Outlook and Controversy.

I am not interested to discuss nor argue... as to who is the PARAMATHMA... Supreme God as per Vedas...

...even though I can prove categorically.

Because such discussions on a high Subject of Spiritualism... is not only FUTILE... but also will only result in mutual animosity...

...as well as the unhealthy divisive entities amongst Freinds.

In brief.. I point out... if You believe Lord Siva is the Paramathma Supreme God... Well, you can believe so...

...I will neither object to your PERSONAL FAITH... even if it is contrary to Vedic Truth.

Similarly I treat all other Sectarians including the Swaabhavikaa sect... who have Faith in any object like Stone, Tree or Doll.. or any such ordinary substances.

I have already detailed in my previous posting.

How and Why.?

For example if you say..."My Mother is GREAT FOR ME"... and Greater than Your Mother FOR ME...

...I should not object... nor differ

Because for everyone his / her own Mother is Great, Greater and Greatest...

..than the others Mothers.

So is the case for Ones own Mother-Tongue, Motherland, Profession and such other PRIVATE DOMAINS, CONCERNS, AND ATTACHMENTS

In this respect, you can understand what Thamizh-Marhai Thiruvaaymozhi clarifies in a BROAD-MINDED Outlook of Human-Values...

...entirely true to the Vedic-Sense of Universal Humanity.

Anybody who needs more clarification... can refer to Ramanujacharya's public addresses...

...in a NON-RELIGIOUS... HUMANITARIAN Outlook.... Mankind being the Supreme-birth on Earth...

..born to exploit the Maximum benefit of Earthly birth...

...by means of Human-Values, Social-Spirit and Unified advancement towards One God... by Unity in Diversities.

Rather if You believe that God Siva showers the Grace to you upto your ENTIRE SATISFACTIOJN...

...as you are entitled to expect from the so called Super-power PROTECTOR God...

..well, others can have nothing to comment on it

But please remember... others of various other Hindu sects too... RESERVE THEIR PERSONAL RIGHTS to follow their own individual path of choice...

...to similarly believe on Muruga, Kali, Soorya, Vinayaka, Iyappa, Vishnu, or even a Doll or Rock as the Ones Protector...

...by ones own individual perception and capability of understanding

...as it may be convincing to them as appropriate for the respective individual

[html:f58217facd]

[/html:f58217facd]In my last posting, You might have seen the Picture of Bengali Idols depicting Kali defeating Lord Siva...

..and the worst of all is...

...Kali is tramping over Lord Siva.!.

Even in spite of strong objections and vociferous disputes from Saivites... it could not improve the situation...

..because the Bengali Sakthas claimed, based on DEVI-BHAGAWATHAM...

..."Look You Saivites have made a Purana at Chidambaram that Our Kali was defeated by Lord Siva.

That was the previous part of the True puranas.

And ours is the subsequent part of Purana... which declares our calm-natured Mother Durga... forced under PROVOCATION...

....became the angered Kali and took revenge on Siva...

..for Siva's UNDUE EXPLOITATION of Womanhood in Durga-devi." said the Bengali Sakthas.

Such disputes went on for centuries...

...marring the purpose and Spirit of Festivals, the Social congregations in a totally unique atmosphere of Soul-sense....

... backed by Unity and SOCIAL-DEVOTION...

Similar depictions of opposite senses killing the peaceful atmosphere during Festivals on Siva and Kali.... lead into frequent Public quarrels too.

Ultimately Sri Krishna Chaithanya intervened and settled the issue...

..by declaring that everyone sect can celebrate the Festivals... conforming to the respective Gurus preaching and Sectarian Puranas of ones own faith.

Can You or anyone convince the Bengali Sakthas better.?

I have already briefly clarified on this point.

If you need more analytical truth... please go through my Serial Article titled as...

Thamizh-Marhai Thiruvaaymozhi... under our Hub Magazines..

http://www.mayyam.com/unicode/cgi-bi...feb10/?t=13920

... on the subject of Vedic-sense in Tamil...

Vedas clearly and undoubtedly declare that GOD IS ONE...

...HE IS NARAYANA... the Paramathma

...All other Gods are His various manifestations... in different Forms and Names.

So whichever God, One worships... such prayers reach the Ultimate Paramathma Narayana only...

...who showers His Grace through the respective God... on whom the Devotee reposes faith... and prays.

From Vedas


Narayana Param Brahma thathvam Narayana Paraha...

Narayana Paro Jyothih Athman Narayana Paraha...

Narayana Paro Dhyaatha Dhyanam Narayana Paraha

.
.Meaning:

Narayana is the ONLY Paramathma, the Supreme God for all Gods.

Narayana is the PARANJOTHI... the Supreme Jothi Paramathma for all Athmas to meditate.(because the Paramathma Narayana renders Grace-Powers to all other Gods)

Narayana is the Supreme Protector to whom all the Devotees are bound to believe and worship.!

.

[pradheep]

Intellect has limitations even to GREATEST scholars

Intellect has its limitations, but can solve the contrdictions that arise in the beleif system of the devotees. It is belief systems that causes wars between religions and within the various sects of a religion. Belief holds good only for the person, not for the whole lot. Belief's are subject to change , because the mind changes. What an individual or a group of indivudals believed can changed over time.

Wheareas Truth is Truth and does not depend on the belief of the mind. What you are bringing out is the belief of people and not the Truth. To do justice to the topic, we should discuss the Truth behind the "Belief"S and not the beleif's, because they are only subjective and changes over time. Truth is eternal and so it is Dharma and that is why our tradition is Sanadhana Dharma, the eternal truth and not eternal beleif's.