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Thread: Global recognition for IR's music.......

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fliflo
    Ada Vivek-ku kuda Padmashri Kuduthutaanga...Nalla Comedy Nadakkuthu


    Local recognition-e kedaikkalai'ngarabodhu global recognition ellam eppadi...
    யுவன் இசை ராஜா...

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  3. #62
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    India-le thaan intha koothu nadakkum

    http://www.nakkheeran.in/users/frmNews.aspx?N=2460

    Vivek unga mele enakku kovam-ille. Aana raja mele govt-kku enna avvalavu oravanjanai.

    Athusari-Atha vaangi mattum enna paNRathu.

    Kannadhasan sonnathai pol "Moodargal Mathiyil Kannudan Vazhvathu athuthaan Thollaiyada"

  4. #63
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber crajkumar_be's Avatar
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    Hulk,
    In my opinion, to reduce what ARR's music stands for to just "commerce" is totally wrong and from such a premise, one would do great harm than good in a "debate" or dissection of these two great composers

  5. #64
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber ananth222's Avatar
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    I hope that this thread is not a debate on who is a better composer, or about what kind of people get what kind of awards.
    This thread should be about how the production and marketing of IRs recent albums matches up with global standards, and what can be done to enhance it and improve the reach of his albums to the wider world.

  6. #65
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber jaiganes's Avatar
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    My theerpu as to why world hasn't recognized the genius in Raaja yet?

    Because...

    The world is not ready to recognize Raaja kind of genius yet.
    Amadeus mozart died a poor man and was buried in a common pit along with tens of other ordinary men. centuries later even kids grow up listening to mozart. Now this doesn't make him a lesser genius. In his time there were other geniuses who were recognized and patronized. However Mozart's genius couldnt be understood by the world fully when he was alive. most of his operas were failures when he wrote them and conducted them.
    So Raaja's time is probably lying in the future. How distant time it is I dont' Know. However Raaja and his fans can appreciate one thing. Right to the last man in an obscure Thamizh Naadu village he is known and his songs are hummed every day. This is something that even mozart did not get.
    Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
    - Gore Vidal

  7. #66
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    jaiganes - the Mozart analogy is a viewpoint from a broader perspective - however its still a viewpoint, thats all! during the days of Mozart, he never had the adulation of millions of fans like you and me, and Mozart did not have the medium of cinema to express his genius!

    whereas IR had it, did use it effectively but not as efficiently as he could have - this is not about getting global recognition alone - personally, for me, if IR gets an Oscar, and thereafter makes albums not worthy of his standards, the Oscar is not worth it! I have come to expect a certain standard (am sure there are others too) from IR which he himself has set in the 80s through the 90s.

    its my conviction, assumption that if a genius like IR does not get recognised through awards in a meaningful manner, he might not come out/be encouraged to come out with albums that would fulfil his creative quest as well as our musical needs! - had TiS gotten big in the world music circles, by now, IR wud have been sought after by groups for doing more creative stuff - then IR cud have demanded that he do such and such a thing - in this context, my rant is that oppurtunities (such as TiS, MM) that surely cud have been handled better, went abegging!!

    At another level, its gross injustice that his works done so far, have not been given their due!

  8. #67
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    irir123 et. al, TIS is a completely botched opportunity. I really dont understand what went wrong. All that bad blood has left a bad taste in my mouth, that I really dont listen to TIS that much, as it reminds me of all the sincerity and sacrifice that so many fans put into it, which got brutally wasted.
    It is technically an amazing piece of work, that a Grammy should have been a piece of cake, yet it just languishes away.
    Still, the lack of a Golden Globe, Oscar or a Grammy for IR does not bother me at all. Somehow IR is associated with an older generation, past his prime, so the focus is on the current commercially successful personalities. Even otherwise, the west may not take to the music of IR that very well..local rhythms..tunes with southindian, carnatic flavor will not cross boundaries. He is the R K Narayan of music. The english is way different (rhythms) and the characters are way down to earth (singing style). A Nobel committee does not see sophistication in the work.

    Even for local awards, being stuck in the film music world, he will only be judged by his commerical success. There is no market or recognition of different genres (and accordingly a forum for evaluating the best in that category) of music locally. So he is caught in a limbo, a classical musician in a POP music space.
    IR started his career in film..a POP music format..but enriched it with so much classicism that he himself learnt so much about music in the process. To me IR marks the end of a genre - indian film music - a genre started by great musicians of the past, enriched as recently by MSV, KVM and taken to its zenith by IR. Indian film music is light classical music with traditional drum accompaniement and western classical string arrangements to backup melodies. Directors discussed what would be an appropriate raagam for the situation and then the composers went to work on it. Lyricists and actors knew so much about the raagam and taalam, it was an intellectual exercise that tried to appeal to the common man as well. With tabla and flute, driving the song like the guitar and drums of classical rock, so many great melodies were churned out by our master film music composers. Each varied in their style and level of panache in the melody or use of western classical methods, with IR excelling in the WCM usage in an indian setting. What others mainly considered as elaboration/decoration of a melody, got moved from the vocal section to the orchestra. An 'enna solli pAduvatho' set for the orchestra completely gets overshadowed by a straight melody set to a modern electronic beat. So I think we are not forgetting IR, we are forgetting and losing a genre.

  9. #68
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    I remember the lines said in Kannathil Muthamittal movie.

    "Ivargal Mugam Irundhum Marukkapattavargal".

    Suits IR aptly!
    யுவன் இசை ராஜா...

  10. #69
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    Hulkster, I can tell you that your post is not Sour Grapes. Sour Grapes is when fans of Composer A are miffed at Composer B's rise and then when Composer C rises to eclipse Composer B, then rejoice in that and take cheap potshots at B.

    Clearly, the clearest proof that IR doesnt care much awards or recognition is when IR fans' desparate attempts to get him to help in simply getting Chicago S.Orchestra to play his music fails. How can an average human not be interested in a simple chance for publicity? The answer is then he is not average. He is beyond that. If actions speak louder than words, then this action clearly speaks louder than anything we fans can say about he doesnt care for awards.
    I also think you have over-simplified Rahman. He has his own theories I guess which he doesnt talk about but there is so much he experiments with sound. You cannot claim that sound is not music because that is what IR himself says "nai kuraikkarurudhula music irukku, kuzhandhai azharudhula irukku etc". In that sense, ARR is a cut above the average Indian composer. Both IR and ARR have differentiated themselves from the average Indian film composer because their sound is A-z theirs. Every interlude, every movement is conceived by them.
    I do agree with many that this is not the time to worry why ARR got recognition and IR didnt.

    Also, I dont think ARR cares for awards either. Clearly, he has said and done enough things for us to infer that he is an exceptional talent who is more interested in taking Indian music beyond shores it has traditionally washed its waves with. I do think he sees an oscar and GG as a recognition for Indian film music than for himself. If he lobbies or explains himself to the suited crowd judging him at oscars, surely I believe it is not pursuit of self-glory but the bigger goal of limelight for the music community he represents
    In other words, I see ARR's Oscar as an award for IR, an award for MSV, and his talented predecssors, too but particularly MSV and IR, because these are the two giants that defined popular tamil film music. Given ARR's personality and genuine humility seen on many occasions, I would rather believe he thinks the same.

    Also, a century from now these 3 may be seen as the trinity of popular tamil music - when we think of Carnatic music, which was probably POPULAR MUSIC in the 19th century, we dont think of what their fans at that time thought of each other. We simply accept that Deekshitar, Thyagarajar and Sastri were masters all and move ahead. A similar thing might happen with these 3 and we have to be thankful that we lived in the times of all these 3 great musicians. Maybe our grandchildren may envy us for that.

  11. #70
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber crajkumar_be's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plum
    Hulkster, I can tell you that your post is not Sour Grapes. Sour Grapes is when fans of Composer A are miffed at Composer B's rise and then when Composer C rises to eclipse Composer B, then rejoice in that and take cheap potshots at B.

    Clearly, the clearest proof that IR doesnt care much awards or recognition is when IR fans' desparate attempts to get him to help in simply getting Chicago S.Orchestra to play his music fails. How can an average human not be interested in a simple chance for publicity? The answer is then he is not average. He is beyond that. If actions speak louder than words, then this action clearly speaks louder than anything we fans can say about he doesnt care for awards.
    I also think you have over-simplified Rahman. He has his own theories I guess which he doesnt talk about but there is so much he experiments with sound. You cannot claim that sound is not music because that is what IR himself says "nai kuraikkarurudhula music irukku, kuzhandhai azharudhula irukku etc". In that sense, ARR is a cut above the average Indian composer. Both IR and ARR have differentiated themselves from the average Indian film composer because their sound is A-z theirs. Every interlude, every movement is conceived by them.
    I do agree with many that this is not the time to worry why ARR got recognition and IR didnt.

    Also, I dont think ARR cares for awards either. Clearly, he has said and done enough things for us to infer that he is an exceptional talent who is more interested in taking Indian music beyond shores it has traditionally washed its waves with. I do think he sees an oscar and GG as a recognition for Indian film music than for himself. If he lobbies or explains himself to the suited crowd judging him at oscars, surely I believe it is not pursuit of self-glory but the bigger goal of limelight for the music community he represents
    In other words, I see ARR's Oscar as an award for IR, an award for MSV, and his talented predecssors, too but particularly MSV and IR, because these are the two giants that defined popular tamil film music. Given ARR's personality and genuine humility seen on many occasions, I would rather believe he thinks the same.

    Also, a century from now these 3 may be seen as the trinity of popular tamil music - when we think of Carnatic music, which was probably POPULAR MUSIC in the 19th century, we dont think of what their fans at that time thought of each other. We simply accept that Deekshitar, Thyagarajar and Sastri were masters all and move ahead. A similar thing might happen with these 3 and we have to be thankful that we lived in the times of all these 3 great musicians. Maybe our grandchildren may envy us for that.

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