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Thread: Tamil Thivya-Pirapantham of Tamil Vainava Saints (Aalvaars)

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    Author: Virarajendra

    A brief study on the Tamil Thivya-Pirapantham of the Tamil Vainava Saints (Aalvaars) of Tamil Nadu



    The sacred “poems of Praise” sung on "God - as Vishnu"(God Vishnu - Thirumaal), by the Tamil Vainava Aalvaars (Saints) of Tamil Nadu - of the medieval and pre-medieval periods, have been grouped into one volume as Naalaayira Thivya-Pirapantham by the Tamil Vainava Adiyar the Naathamunikal.

    Note: Re - "God as Vishnu"(God Vishnu) refer my Thread in this same website titled - "The Universal Truth of God Supreme"

    “Thivya” in Sanskrit (“Thiru” in Tamil) means “Divine”, and Pirapantham (in Tamil) means a “poetic work”. Hence “Naalaayira Thivya-Pirapantham” means “Divine poetic works of 4000 verses”. (Verses - Paasuram)

    These 4000 verses are from the twenty three divine poetic works of the twelve Vainava Aalvaars of Tamil Nadu, and are classified as follows:

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Poihaiaalvaar - Place of Birth : Kaanchipuram
    Muthal Thiruvanthaathi - 100 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 7

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Poothathaalvaar - Place of Birth : Maamallapuram
    Irandaam Thiruvanthaathi - 100 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 13

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Peiyaalvaar - Place of Birth : Mayilaapuur
    Moontram Thiruvanthaathi - 100 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 14

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Thirumalisaiaalvaar - Place of Birth : Thirumalisai
    Thirusantha Viruttham - 120 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Naanmuhan Thiruvanthaathi - 96 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 16

    Refer: Refer: http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_ete.../pm0005_02.pdf





    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Namaalvaar - Place of Birth : Thirukurukoor
    Thiruviruththam - 100 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Thiruvaasiriyam - 7 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Periya Thiruvanthaathi - 87 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Thiruvaaimoli - 1102 Thiruppaasurm on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 35

    - A Gem of Thiruvaaimoli
    Courtesy: Shangu Chakra Gadha Padmam - YouTube] As the Owner of this Video have disabled same being played in other Websites, Readers are requested to view same in the YouTube Website at the following URL
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=HVQfE-4Nnn4

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Mathurakaviaalvaar - Place of Birth : Thirukkoluur
    Kanni Nun Siruthaambu - 11 Thiruppaasuram on Nammaalvaar in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 00

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Kulasekaraalvaar - Place of Birth : Thiruvanjikkalam (present Kodungallur of Kerala)
    Perumal Thirumoli - 105 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 7
    Muhundamaalaa - Paadalkal on Thirumaal in Sanskrit



    Refer: http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_ete.../pm0005_02.pdf

    ----------

    Note:
    Towards the beginning of the nineth century {i.e. A.D.801} the powerful Chera king Kulasekaran {A.D.801-820} was ruling in Kudamalainadu of the Kerala (Chera) country, with his capital at Mahodayapuram. It was here the Thiruvanjikkalam existed. Mahodayapuram was also known as the Kodungallur with which name it exits even today. He was an ardent devotee of Lord Rama an incarnation of God Vishnu.

    King Kulasekaran has claimed for himself the titles “Kolik-kon”, “Kudal-nayagan”, “Kongar Kon” in his "Perumal Thirumoli" confirming his authority over Koliyur (the Uraiyur of the Chola country), and Kudal (the Madurai of the Pandiya country) and also over the Kongu country, with his victory over these countries and the formation of the Second Chera (Kerala) empire during the pre-medieval period.

    Subsequently he denounced the Chera throne in preferance to his "absolute dedication and worship of God Vishnu (Thirumaal) and came to be known as Kulasekara Perumaal and as Kulasekara Aalvaar.

    The Life Story of Kulasekara Aalwar - Courtesy: Ramanujadasyai - YouTube

    ----------

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Periyaalvaar - Place of Birth : Sri Villipuththuur
    Periyaalvaar Thirumoli - 461 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Thiruppallaandu - 12 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 20


    A gem from Thiruppallaandu Coutesy: Bombay Saradha - YouTube

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Aandaal - Place of Birth : Sri Villipuththuur
    Thiruppaavai - 30 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Naachiyaar Thirumoli - 143 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 9

    Refer: Refer: http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_ete.../pm0005_02.pdf



    Courtesy: Bombay Sarada

    - A gem from Naachiyaar Thirumoli

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Thondaradipodiaalvaar - Place of Birth : Mandangkudi
    Thirumaalai - 45 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Thiruppalli Elutchi - 10 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 3





    - Gems from Thirumaalai

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Thiruppaanaalvaar - Place of Birth : Uraiyuur
    Amalanathipiran - 1 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 3

    - Gems of Amalanathipiran

    The Thiruppaasurankal of the Tamil Vainava Saint
    Thirumangaiaalvaar - Place of Birth : Kuraiyaluur
    Periya Thirumoli - 1084 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Thirukkurunththandakam - 20 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Thirunedunththandakam - 30 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Thiruvelukoottrirukkai - 1 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Siriya Thirumadal - 1 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    Periya Thirumadal - 1 Thiruppaasuram on Thirumaal in Tamil
    No of 'Paadal (Mangala Saasanam - poetic praise) - petra' Vainava 'Thiruththalangal' (Thivya Thesangal) - 40

    Courtesy: Shangu Chakra Gadha Padmam - YouTube]
    As the Owner of this Video have disabled same being played in other Websites, Readers are requested to view same in the YouTube Website at the following URL
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=EQIuEndoJLA

    Courtesy: Shangu Chakra Gadha Padmam - YouTube]
    As the Owner of this Video have disabled same being played in other Websites, Readers are requested to view same in the YouTube Website at the following URL
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=hrid2OAENrw

    Courtesy: Sree Kanth Parappattu - YouTube]





    ----

    While the "Naalaayira Thivya-Pirapantham" in Tamil remains a grouping of the Tamil Vainava Thiruppaasurankal - the Divine praise on God Vishnu - by the Tamil Vainava Aalvaars, the Tamil Vainava poetic work named "Guruparamparai Puranam" speaks on the life histories of these - twelve great Tamil Vainava Aalvaars.

    The "Prapantha Saaram" in Tamil by Swami Vethantha Guru (Desikan) provides the count of Paasurams by each Vainava Aalvaars, and the details of their birth - places, months, and stars.
    Refer:
    http://www.sundarasimham.org/ebooks/PrabhandaSaaram.pdf




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This thread is to be further developed, perfected and corrections made where required by the Author

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by virarajendra; 31st October 2015 at 01:32 AM.

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    Re: Tamil Thivya-Pirapantham of Tamil Vainava Saints (Aalvaa

    Quote Originally Posted by virarajendra
    The sacred “poems of Praise” sung on God Vishnu (Thirumal), by the Tamil Vainava Aalvaars(Saints) of Tamil Nadu of the medieval, pre-medieval periods, have been grouped into one volume as “Naalaayira Thivya-Pirapantham” by the Tamil Vainava Adiyar the Naathamunikal.
    Nathamuni believed to have lived during the 9th century was born in the village Vira-narayana in the Chola kingdom.

    One day, his return to his hometown after a long pilgrimage, Nathamuni met some Srivaisnavas, reciting some 10 hymns composed by Nammalvar. Realising that they were part of a much larger work, he decided to go to the holy temple city, Kumbakonam.

    The Guru-parampara Prabhavam states, that Madhura-kavi alvar, the disciple of Nammalvar, manifested before Nathamuni and told him that after Nammalvar left his body, the local orthodox community fearing that the study of the Tamil hymns would be detrimental to the Vedic religion, threw them into the river Tamraparani. A page of the hymns, was picked up by a man who appreciated and recited them.

    Thus only 10 hymns have been saved at this time. Nathamuni recited 12000 times the verse composed by Madhura kavi alvar in adoration of Nammalvar, who then revealed the purport of the entire work to Nathamuni. Not satisfied, Nathamuni wanted to know all the words in detailed. He was asked to approach an artisan, who provided Nathamuni with the complete text of the work, which latter came to be known as Tiruvaymozhi.

    Nathamuni brought the hymns together and with the help of his two nephews, set them to music in the Vedic manner. From then on, these hymns are sung in the temples and are regarded as Dravida Veda.

    Nathamuni then pass down the text to his disciple Pondari-kaksa, who then gave it to his disciple Rama Misra, Rama Misra gave it to Yamunacarya, who gave it to Gosthipurna, who later instructed Sri Ramanuja on the work.

    source http://www.qmtech.com/srimatham/history/nathamuni.html

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    Dear Jimano repeating a section of your reply:

    "....The Guru-parampara Prabhavam states, that Madhura-kavi alvar, the disciple of Nammalvar, manifested before Nathamuni and told him that after Nammalvar left his body, the local orthodox community fearing that the study of the Tamil hymns would be detrimental to the Vedic religion, threw them into the river Tamraparani......"

    This has been the fate of the Tamil Saiva Thirumuraihal and Tamil Vainava Naalaayira Divya Pirapantham, due to the Sanskritisation of the Saivite & Vainava religions by the Vedic Priests from time to time in Tamil Nadu.

    The Tamil Vainava Adiyar Nathamuni heard some Sri Vainavas reciting few Tamil Vainava Aalvaar's songs, and with great desire for same had to go in search of their complete Paadalhal - as they were not freely available - which have been suppressed by the Vedic Priests promoting the Sanskrit Vedic religion, as seen in the Guru-parampara Prabhavam

    Likewise the Chola Emperor Rajaraja Chola - 1 (A.D.985-1014) who is said to have accidently heard some Tamil Saiva Naayanmaar's songs, with much liking for same had to go in search of the complete lot of Tamil Saiva Naayanmaar's songs, and finally found a set of their Ola leaf copies kept in an old room in the Chithambaram Temple by the temple priests, which with their negligence resulted with many of the Ola leaves having perished beyond recovery. These have been earlier suppressed by the Chithambaram temple priests in preferance to hyms of the Vedic Religion. It was the Nambiaandaar Nambi the Tamil Saiva Adiyaar, on the instructions of Rajaraja Chola - 1 recovered what was remaining, preserved and classified them into 7 - Thirumurais initially.

    We can clearly see the distinct periods of the Sanskritisation of the Saivite & Vainavite religions in Tamil Nadu from history.

    The first phase of Sanskritisation of the above religions in Tamil Nadu, took place during the Pallava period, who were strong followers of Vedic religion.

    Then much resistance to same was shown in the 7th and 8th centuries by the Saiva Naayanmaars and the Vainava Aalvaars who in many of their songs have repeatedly mentioned - their great pride in composing songs of Divine Praise on Siva and Vishnu in Tamil - in their Thirumuraihal and Divya Pirapantham.

    During the medieval Chola period this re-awakening received a further boost, but with a some resistance from the Vedic Priests. It was during this period the Thirumuraihal and the Divya Pirapantham Tamil Songs of Divine praise, were commenced to be sung in the Siva and Vishnu Temples in Tamil Nadu by Othuvaars and Araiyars.

    The second phase of Sanskritisation of the Tamil Nadu Temples took place with the beginning of the Naayakkar rule, who were again great promoters of Vedic Religion.

    During this period the Othuvaars & Araiyars were gradually moved out from the Temples of Tamil Nadu, with the Tamil - Thirumurai & Divya Pirapantham songs too gradually loosing their usage in these temples. The Tamil - Saivite and Vaishnavite Priests were replaced by Vedic Priests. The Temples were given Sanskrit names as against their original Tamil Names, and the presiding Deities in these temples too likewise were given Sanskrit names in place of their Tamil Names. Even some of the "place names" where these temples are situated, were also changed from Tamil to Sanskrit.

    Further many Thalapuranams too were created in Sanskrit, with new "mythological" stories on the respective Thalams with Vedic background as against their Tamil - Saivite and Vainavite background, and in some cases the Tamil translations of same too came out subsequently.

    The Tamil - Saivites and Vainavites of this century should make efforts to Tamilise all forms of religious worship and rituals in all Siva & Vishnu Temples in Tamil Nadu, and give the Tamil Language it's due place of pride in these Temples.

    In these temples where the Tamils of Tamil Nadu go today for their Divine worship - the Temple Priests themselves should on their own come forward to conduct all forms of worship, poosai and other valipaaduhal entirely in Tamil, giving the due place to the Tamil - Thirumuraihal and Naalaayira Divya Pirapantham, complete with the re-introduction of the Othuvaar and Araiyar systems in these temples.
    Last edited by virarajendra; 26th December 2011 at 07:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by virarajendra
    So it is high time the Tamil - Saivites and Vainavites of this century got together to make efforts to Tamilise all Siva & Vishnu Temples in Tamil Nadu, and give the Tamil Language it's due place in the Temples - built by the Tamil kings with the assistance of the Tamil Artisons and Tamil Workers. In these temples where the Tamils of TamilNadu go today for their Divine worship - the priests should conduct all forms of Worship, Poosai and other Valipaaduhal entirely in Tamil, complete with the Othuvaar and Araiyar systems re-introduced.
    This is my subjective assessment of Srivaisnavism today in and outside Tamilnadu

    In Tamilnadu

    Temples

    The temples are corrupt and serve the commercial interest of certain group of people, politicians, temple administrators and priests. None of these people have any interest to safeguard the tradition (saivism or vaisnavism). Also, most Sri vaisnavite temple are vaikanasa based which tends be inclined more towards the vedic tradition.

    Mutts

    Most Sri vaisnavite madathipathis are afraid to bring about any change, fearing a backlash from their community. There is one Sri vaisnavite madathipathi who has been ostracised by the community for converting non brahmins and his life threatened.

    Community

    Still maintaining its caste consciousness ( perhaps not officially but socially). For those who have settled abroad (expats), they tend to be rather exclusive.

    Outside Tamilnadu

    Temples

    Similar to Tamilnadu, though not as corrupt and are better maintained. Most temple administrators have no knowledge of the tradition and take on a Hindu idenity which is a hotchpotch.

    Mutts

    Non existent - however many "new age gurus" and Christian evangelists have penetrated into this lucrative market.

    Community

    Non Existent brahmin community (excluding the expats)

    Conclusion

    Nothing much can be expected from temples. The change has to come from the people and there is a dire need of a visionary leader. Prabhupada's Iskcon model was quite successful as he worked outside the Hinduism label (i.e minus the caste system and multiple gods) whenever it suited his purpose.

    Even a great reformer like Ramanuja failed because he tried to reform by working within the system. The Buddha was more successful as he worked outside the system, by rejecting the vedic culture.

  7. #5
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    .Tamil - Recitations in Saiva and Vaishnava Temples.

    .Tamil Divya-prabhandas Palm-leaf bundles thrown out in Rivers.?

    Let us look back into the History and True Events apart from Historians versions.

    (1) Alwars' Divya-Prabhandas were not documented in writing by any manner... including Palm-leaf form... during the early days...

    ..but only treated as SRUTHI.. at par with Vedas of the same Name and Status....

    ..so to say... as Vedas are not documented in writing... not taught through reading and writing...

    ..but only by "SANTHAI- method" of teaching by a Guru to Chant first... to be repeated by the students...

    ...true to the sense of Vedas called SRUTHI... meaning HEAR-SAY only.

    So the question of throwing out the Palm-leaf bundles in the River... does not arise.

    (2) Alwars Divya-Prabhandas are and were EVER highly regarded by Sri-Vaishnavites as DRAVIDA-VEDAS... at par with Sanskrit Vedas... so called Aadhi-Vedas...

    ...because time and again Vishnu-temples' Idol-God Themselves at various temples have declared so repeatedly...

    ..as also pre-announced accordingly... thousands of years back in the Sanskrit Bhagawatham... about the re-incarnation of Alwars on Earth

    ...and by Asareeri that the Tamil too is a DIVINE LANGUAGE... conversed by Devas during Kaliyuga.

    The latest such instance was the experience of the Acharya Swami Desika... the Awathara of Thirumalai Sannidhi Bell...

    ...who (although a Tamilian by birth in Tamilnadu)... was objecting to treat Tamil at par with the Gospel-Language Sanskrit.

    When he raised this Question to Hayagreeva at Thiruvaheendrapuram... He has well clarifed in person (Prathyaksha-Darsanam) to the Great Acharya Swami Desika...

    ...on the Divine-values of Tamil.. alongside the Glory of Alwars... irrespective of castes by birth.!

    Thus when all the Vaishnava Acharyas... were well-convinced... there were nobody to object recitations of Divine Tamil-prabhandas emanated through the Alwars...

    ..and so were recited by all the Vedic-Pandits at Home and Temples... in Tamil...

    ...anywhere all over the World.

    (3) The Saiva Acharyas wanted the similar status... in case of Saiva-Thirumurhais also...

    ..and so pleaded with the Tamil-kings Chera, Chozha, Pandyas...

    .... to render equal status for Tamil at par with Sanskrit recitations towards the Deity.. within the Sanctum Sactorum (Garbha-graha).

    Chozha Emperor supported the move and sought the approval from Saiva-Agama Pandits at Kasi.

    They vehemently opposed the move highlighting the difference between Vaishnava and Saiva Agamas.

    They quoted Vaishnava Agamas... which state any prayer in any language uttered in person to God in any form... which if heard and received...

    ...indicates His approval as SREE-SOOKTHI (Divine Prayers sanctified and SANCTIONED by God for future prayers by anybody.)

    ...whereas in Saiva-Agamas... there is no such specific mention...

    ...permiting any recitation other than Sivagama Sthothras in Sanskrit.

    So it will mean an Apachaaram.. if we violate Saiva-Agamas." they said unanimously.

    The Kasi-Raja (the staunch Saivite... the intimate friend of Chozha Emperors)... strongly advised him not to violate nor deviate from Saiva-Agamas...

    ...the authentic Code of Divine Conduct for Poojas and services in Siva Temples.

    He also warned that whenever such Agamas were violated or under-treated... there have been unmanagable upsurge of floods in Ganga river... indicating the anger of Ganga-devi.

    Since Chozha Emperors were already facing the worst problems of heavy flood-damages by Kaveri river frequently...

    ...they feared to take risk... on a Divine task.

    ...just because of Language issue.

    Subsequently... the Tamil Saiva Mataadhipadhis... pleaded with the Chozha Emperor... for parity with Vaishnava Temple systems.

    Then on the advice of an Experts-committe.. they reached a Via-media solution...

    (1) Poojas within the Garbha-graham by the Priests... only according to Saiva-Agama codes...

    ...confining to chanting in Sanskrit only.

    (2) Outside the Garbhagrahas... Odhuwars can chant the Saiva Thirumurhais.

    But such a Compromise-formula... giving Over-importance to Tamil... more than other Indian Languages...

    ...was severely opposed by all the North Indian Kings as well as Saivite Pandits in Non-Tamil regions.

    Then the Tamil Saiva matadhipathis added one subsequent line in prayer...as....

    ...தென்னாடு உடைய சிவனே போற்றி.!... என் நாட்டவர்க்கும் இறைவா போற்றி.!!!

    [Thennaadu udaiya Sivanae Potri.!.. Yen-Naattavarkkum Irhaiva Potri.!!!]...

    ...which was not objected by North Indian Saivite Kings and Pandits...

    And so it continues in vogue.
    .

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    Well, looks like then that the only option is that as long as "Nathamunis" continue to make their appearances from time to time and rejuvenate the hoary legacy of the Azhwars, the marais will be preserved.

    And I am sure the Lord Himself will make sure that these wonderful Truths do not fade completely out of sight. After all hasn't He declared Sambhavaami yuge yuge!
    When we stop labouring under the delusion of our cosmic self-importance, we are free of hindrance, fear, worry and attachment. We are liberated!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sudhaama
    .
    .Tamil - Recitations in Saiva and Vaishnava Temples.

    .Tamil Divya-prabhandas Palm-leaf bundles thrown out in Rivers.?

    Let us look back into the History and True Events apart from Historians versions.

    (1) Alwars' Divya-Prabhandas were not documented in writing by any manner... including Palm-leaf form... during the early days...
    The Guru-parampara Prabhavam states, that Madhura-kavi alvar, the disciple of Nammalvar, manifested before Nathamuni and told him that after Nammalvar left his body, the local orthodox community fearing that the study of the Tamil hymns would be detrimental to the Vedic religion, threw them into the river Tamraparani. A page of the hymns, was picked up by a man who appreciated and recited them
    So all that is written in the "Guru Parampara Prabhavam" is untrue ?

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    .Vedas ordained to be absorbed through EARS.! Not Eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimano
    Quote Originally Posted by Sudhaama
    .
    .Tamil - Recitations in Saiva and Vaishnava Temples.

    .Tamil Divya-prabhandas Palm-leaf bundles thrown out in Rivers.?

    Let us look back into the History and True Events apart from Historians versions.

    (1) Alwars' Divya-Prabhandas were not documented in writing by any manner... including Palm-leaf form... during the early days...
    The Guru-parampara Prabhavam states, that Madhura-kavi alvar, the disciple of Nammalvar, manifested before Nathamuni and told him that after Nammalvar left his body, the local orthodox community fearing that the study of the Tamil hymns would be detrimental to the Vedic religion, threw them into the river Tamraparani. A page of the hymns, was picked up by a man who appreciated and recited them
    So all that is written in the "Guru Parampara Prabhavam" is untrue ?
    "Guru Parampara "... the AUTHENTIC DOCUMENT...

    ... of the True History of Sri-Vaishnava Acharyas does not say anything contrary nor different from what I have said.

    During those days of Kings era... it was categorically ordered that since Divya-Prabhandams are the TAMIL-VEDAS...

    ...they must be regarded at par in status of Vedas...which are treated as SRUTHIS..

    ..so to say... only taught by HEARSAY..and Not through Reading.

    So similar to Vedas which are not documented in writing in palm-Leaves or Copper-plates or Stone-Inscriptions... or in any such visual forms...

    ... accessible by any means other than Hearing and Chanting

    ...anywhere is TOTALLY BANNED... in case of these DRAVIDA-VEDAS too.

    Accordingly Palm-leaf documentations were neither allowed nor patronised during the yester-years...

    ..until Ramanuja's period.

    After the Kings era... when disputes arose due to controversies by varied memories on the Versions...

    ..they found the necessity for documenting the authentic versions on Palm-Leaves... and was recorded and printed in Book forms...

    ...after Ramanuja's era.

    Peria-Alwar says...

    ... என் செவி வழி என்னுள் புகுந்தாய். !!!

    ...(Yen Chevi Vazhi Yennulh Puhundhaay)...

    ..which pinpoints on not only Aaadhi-Vedas in Sanskrit...

    ...but also the Dravida-Vedas in Tamil...

    ...at par both as SRUTHIS... and so was strictly and sincerely followed...

    ... during the erstwhile Kings' era.
    .

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    Dear Sudhama,

    The Vedas were not documented in Ola Leaves with a specific purpose - of having it's contents selfishly guarded from others by the Vedic priests - and passed among their clan by a Guru-Shishya system of hearing, committing to memory & chanting - Suruthi.

    But Thirumuraihal & Divya Pirapantham were written in Ola Leaves from the time they came into existance. There is evidence in a temple inscription to confirm that Thirumuraihal were also copied into copper plates. Even one Thevara Pathikam have been carved on the granite wall of a Siva Temple in Tamil Nadu.

    Even Rajaraja Cholan found so many Ola Leaf Manuscripts of Thevara Pathikams in a room in Chithambaram Temple, many of them perished beyond recovery but collected what was remaining and arranged them to be classified in to seven Thirumuraihal.

    We also note in Thirugnanasampantha Naayanaar's history in Periya Puranam where he is said to have let go the Ola Leaf Manuscripts of Thevarems at one point of a river and collected at another point.

    The author of Guru-parampara Prabhavam too could not have created a false story on the Ola leaf Manuscripts of the Nammaalavar's Thiruppaasurangal - as being thrown into the river, unless there is some truth in it.

    I also have not come across upto now of any positive evidence from any literary sources or from any inscriptions confirming what you have said that Divya Pirapantham (and Thrumuraihal too ???) were handed over from Guru to Shishaya by Suruthi system.

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    .
    .History proves the Greatness of Tamil DRAVIDA-VEDAS.!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by virarajendra
    Dear Sudhama,

    The Vedas were not documented in Ola Leaves with a specific purpose - of having it's contents selfishly guarded from others by the Vedic priests - and passed among their clan by a Guru-Shishya system of hearing, committing to memory & chanting - Suruthi.

    But Thirumuraihal & Divya Pirapantham were written in Ola Leaves from the time they came into existance. There is evidence in a temple inscription to confirm that Thirumuraihal were also copied into copper plates. Even one Thevara Pathikam have been carved on the granite wall of a Siva Temple in Tamil Nadu.

    Even Rajaraja Cholan found so many Ola Leaf Manuscripts of Thevara Pathikams in a room in Chithambaram Temple, many of them perished beyond recovery but collected what was remaining and arranged them to be classified in to seven Thirumuraihal.

    We also note in Thirugnanasampantha Naayanaar's history in Periya Puranam where he is said to have let go the Ola Leaf Manuscripts of Thevarems at one point of a river and collected at another point.

    The author of Guru-parampara Prabhavam too could not have created a false story on the Ola leaf Manuscripts of the Nammaalavar's Thiruppaasurangal - as being thrown into the river, unless there is some truth in it.

    I also have not come across upto now of any positive evidence from any literary sources or from any inscriptions confirming what you have said that Divya Pirapantham (and Thrumuraihal too ???) were handed over from Guru to Shishaya by Suruthi system.
    Dear Virarajendra,

    Only because you have personally addressed me...

    ..I have to duly honour... and reply.

    (1) The Question of Hegemony of any one Community does not arise here...

    ...nor it could be possible in any era... in this respect.

    ...because the Hegemony needs Unity within that Group...

    ...whereas the Community you are referring to... are famous for Dis-unity even amongst a few in a Village resulting in constant and frequent mutual Misunderstandings and Quarrels too...

    ...since several centuries... right from the First Yuga, Krutha Yuga

    (2) From other Communities too... there were several Sanskrit Scholars... coupled with Sound Knowledge on Vedas...

    ....like Kamban, Kalidasan, Auvaiyar, Valluvar, Boja-raja, Vikramaadithya and so on...

    ... who learnt such profound Knowledge in Sanskrit and the Vedas...

    ...only from Brahmins who nurtured such Great Indian Heritage.

    (3) Any single unhealthy attempt by anybody of mischivous motive on Aadhi- Vedas... have been thwarted by Gods on several occasions through Alwars and Acharyas....

    ..example Thirumazhisai-Alwar.!!!... not from Vedic Community.

    (4) I have already clarified that the Vedas are named SRUTHIs .. as declared by those Gospels...

    ...NOT made BY ANY HUMANS...

    ...unlike the other Saasthra- Texts called SMRUTHIs... the Man-made... like Manu-Smruthi.

    Sruthi called Vedas have been ordained by the Gospels... to be taught through hearing by EARS ONLY...

    ...and Not VISUALLY... by Reading through EYES.

    ...especially because of its Dhatha, Udhaatha, Anudhaatha Swara Ghanam... Phonetic chanting...

    (5) As I have already clarified... Saiva-Thirumurhais by Nayanmars

    ...although of DIVINE-VALUES... as the approved Prayers... for Saivites...

    ... they have not been recognised as Tamil-Vedas / THAMIZH-MARHAI ... at par with Aadhi-Vedas...

    ...by any God... or even by the Scholars of the same Sect... Saivites amongst Non-Tamilians...

    ..though they were NOT AGAINST its media of Tamil Language...

    ...nor opposing the Alwars Divya-Prabhandas...

    ...since openly declared by God Maha-Vishnu as DRAVIDA-VEDAS... or Thamizh-Marhai...

    ...by Asareeri as well as through the various devotees...

    ..and ORDERED to be chanted for Poojas within the Sanctum Sactorum... and at Homes...

    ...as well as in the Streets... by ARULI-CHEYAL GOSHTIs... in front of the Deities on processions...

    ..leaving the Sankrit Vedic Chanters to follow behind at the Tail-end of the procession...

    ...proving as THAMIZH MUN SELLA... as proudly extolled by Kamban.

    (6) It may be true that the Saiva Thirumurhais were documented in Palm-Leaves as well as by Epigraphy... I have no comment.

    But I am sure that the Alwars Divya-Prabhandas were NOT DOCUMENTED until the end of Ramanuja's era...

    ...but had to be documented subsequently... by Printing Books... as I have already detailed with reasons.

    And it is true that the Alwars Divya-Prabhandas in Tamil were taught to any and every DEVOTEE......

    ... of ALL COMMUNITIES... without bias... including Women-folk... since several centuries...

    ...[which HEALTHY approach continues even at present]...

    ....but similar to learning Classical Music....

    ... only by the UNIQUE TEACHING system of the Guru chanting first... to be rechanted REPEATEDLY by the Disciples...

    ..so called SANTHAI-METHOD.
    .

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