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Thread: IR and composers overseas...

  1. #1
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    IR and composers overseas...

    Last one year or so, I have been listening extensively to composers like John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Danny Elfman etc - thanks to IR of course, whose use of Western classical components in his scores has more than piqued my interest in these composers - how does IR compare with these composers when it comes to creating grand, opulent, atmostpheric scores ?

    let me start with the example of Hans Zimmer's brilliant score for "The Ring" - a spooky score which has all the ingredients of Western(European) classical music - heavy use of the cello for instance - but never overindulges in using eerie sounds - a perfect example of how classical music can be customised as per the movie's dark themes/undercurrent

    Listen to it here:

    from 5:45 onwards its just stunning! I can even hear a rhythmic melody motif from 6:06 to 6:21 which is again repeated from 6:42 to 7:00 - its so good to hear a melodic motif in a spooky theme score! and then again, from 7:18 to 7:36 this motif is beautifully complimented by an awesome string section that weaves in and out (giving a kindof fleeting view of something through the train windows!) - which is immediately followed by the cellos which play perhaps the counterpoint for the original motif (maybe am wrong but it does sound like it) from 7:40 to 8:10 thereafter continued by a lesser no of strings playing the main theme - throughout the underlying (electric) piano keys are constantly plucked as a background!

    thats the best description I can give with my limited knowledge of music!

    Has IR ever gotten a chance to give such an atmospheric score in movies ?

    often I feel that IR comes up with a brilliant motif but never gets a chance to develop the same into a full-fledged long score - the best example is the theme for 'Lajja' which had a very original motif - but before it could grow on me, the theme gets over! tats the tragedy of scoring for Indian movies - similar is the theme for Pandavas (the one towards the end credits)

    lets hear from other hubbers
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"
    -Robert Frost

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  3. #2
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    another upcoming composer, Alexandre Desplat (scored for "Syriana", "Golden Compass" etc) brings in his own refreshing original signature to his themes - you can listen to his score for Syriana here : - for a political thriller, multilayered and complex, the score tones down the pace of the images quite well - its almost understated, with the use of the piano for even the fast-moving scenes

    last year he received his first Academy Award nomination for Best Original Score for "The Queen"

    When IR does music for a desi political thriller, he is often constrained by the need to indulge in bombastic scores - as per the requirements of the filmmaker - besides the movies themselves dont have multi-layered scripts (unless IR happens to work for a Kamal's HEY RAM) - Ramana, a political thriller though different, did not have the nuances/subtleties and hence the themes were mostly bombastic and percussion-based - Pithamagan (though not a political thriller) still had a script that challenged IRs creativity

    Besides, IMO, inspite of large sections of the audiences having been used to IR's prowess, IR will not score such themes that will have heavy use of a single instrument such as the piano, as audience perception is still not attuned to receiving such score - IR is very much capable of giving sucn scores - themes for Johnny, Anjali, and the various bits in Kalaignan (especially, the cello piece played by one of the victims Sindhuja before she gets killed, is simply brilliant!)

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    comeon, Prabhu Ram, NOV, NJV, Jaiganes, Rajasaranam and others in the forum - am awaiting your inputs too !

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    irir123,

    Have you seen or listened to the background score of 'Aa Dinagalu' the Kannada movie? It has something similar to what you have been saying. Illayaraja uses the keyboard to great effect and he creates a threatening atmosphere without being bombastic. The 'sound' is very consistent throughout the movie.

    The other movie which I watched recently and was enthralled by the background score was Adoor Gopalakrishnan's "Nizalkuthu". I was initially surprised by this combination. Adoor's movies are almost impossible to get but luckily this one has been released. In the initial part, a dark and ominous minimal background score prevails. Drumbeats accompanied by a melancholic violin. In the second part, Adoor moves the movie into an real plane and there the photographer and Illayaraja come out from their shell. The music here with the wonderful flute is mesmerizing. Some people didn't probably understand Adoor's intention and think that Illayaraja's score was probably an overkill. I think Illayaraja exactly understood Adoor's intention and the whole movie is lovely to watch with this score.

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    Oops. I meant 'an unreal plane'. Nizhalkuthu did have music in the first half which could have been developed into a full fledged theme.

    Talking of themes, you should check out the music score in Wang Kar Woi's "In Mood for Love". The other excellent score is that of Miles Davis in Louis Malle's "Elevator to Gallows".

    S.Suresh

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    Senior Member Devoted Hubber ananth222's Avatar
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    Also try "Requiem for a dream" - a great soundtrack that captures the emotions in the movie:


    Unfortunately in TFM, there is little scope for such soundtracks:
    1. TFM music is centered around songs. IR has given some great BGM as build up to great songs, but ultimately, the attention is on the songs.
    2. Soundtrack is rarely put together and released separately. Thus even if short parts are used in the movie, we rarely get full track lengths on the CD as in the case of foriegn movies. Barring some exceptions like Cheeni Kum or MX, "Soundtrack" only means "songs" in Indian movies.

    But there is no doubt that IR is capable of producing some gems, if the opportunity was there. Check out this short piece from "Thooral ninnu pochu". Scene: Bhagyaraj and Sulochana decide to run away. The music takes us through the early morning time when they are preparing to run away, to when Sulochana is waiting and Bhagyaraj doesn't turn up, and day breaks and she goes back home, faces the father etc. The music could be pieced together into a single track. Listen to the "waiting until daybreak" part:
    http://www.esnips.com/doc/08e48b40-5...al-Ninnu-Pochu

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    Sureshs65 - thanks for the inputs! IMO, within India, even amongst South indian audiences, who have been groomed by IR to watch out for the BGM, the importance of background scores is completely lost/misunderstood/ignored - perhaps, our movie watchers are not that savvy yet - hopefully it will all change

    from my observation, I find that most composers elsewhere stick to a basic minimum quality in their scores, while many composers almost always give quality scores - Thomas Newman for example may not be in the league of John Williams, but his scores are brilliant too! listen to his scores for "Road to perdition" (which is both melancholic and also has an Irish flavor since the script revolves around mafias with Irish origin) and "the good german" (a movie set in the 1930s/40s, the score uses motifs that sound like the ones used during that period) showcase his versatility

    or James Newton Howard who is Manoj Shyamalan's 'aasthana' composer - his "The Village" score has strong celtic flavor - - such amazing celtic feel, the score is very evocative of the spring season - the kindof 'leaves falling' feeling!

    We need a Mahendran or a Balu Mahendra with a fine sense of the visuals to give IR artistic challenges to come up with such scores - the various themes of IR for BM's "Moondram Pirai" are just timeless!

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    btw, the entire album "Eera vizhi kaaviyangal" is so damn evocative of misty, woodsy, ambience, it creates great expectations for IR's BGM score for the whole movie! is there anywhere I can buy this movie online ?

    The interludes of 'kanavil midhakkum' are simply our-of-this-world! strings in multiple layers, each set cascading/merging and overlapping with the other, and a stunning bass line accompanying the same! IR can do a lenghty 8-9 min orhcestral piece just using the interludes only!

  10. #9
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    ananth222 - that piece from Thooral Ninnu Pochu - amazing! and howsoever IR might try not to show, his love for Bach always is seen in the baroque style strings that he always uses for such situations!

    and Requiem for a Dream score! isnt the same score used in "LOTR-Two Towers" by Howard Shore (another great composer) ?! so who is the original composer HS or Clint Mansell ?

    the point from 2:20 onwards when the strings take over, its mind-blowing!

  11. #10
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    I dont know why IR declined the bala's movie (kamal and another oriental super star). i also heard that he declined to do bloodstone in 80s (probably was too busy). I think its time for IR to come out of TFM and start working on hollywood movies where there is more scope for BGM.

    I have seen Guru (malayalam) recently and the BGM through out hte movie is amazing. It deserve to be released as a "sound track".

    Got to sleep. Will post more here later.
    Musical Tsunami - On Feb 23, 2013 @ Prudential Center, NJ - Maestro Ilayaraja Live - First time in USA.

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