"Moral science" in schools... is it still relevant

[app_engine]

thilak4life,

I totally agree with you that all's not perfect with the education - morals or otherwise. We sure need improvements (may be even wholesale revamp). My focus in this thread was only about whether "to have or not have" moral education. I hope I've stated where I stand on that question. Now, how it is to be done and what betterments can be made and such details need attention. There may be people better qualified than me to talk about that

[Wibha]

It's not necessary to have a moral science class. When I used to have it it was more of a stress. To be frank i learnt nothing from the class. Morals should come from within you can't impose it or teach it or order. We had it as a whole period in which we used to learn stories and we were told to do the exercises for an A. all that mattered to us was the A and not what the class really meant. I think it's of no use to have moral science as a class....

[app_engine]

>>that mattered to us was the A <<

I don't think we had exams / assesment for MI during my schooling. Yes, exams / grades could be a stress on any subject and no child likes it.

OTOH, typically children have a preference for junk food and not healthy food. Does it mean allow them to munch on what they want and let them end up sick? I'm sure parental / elderly guidance is needed in early years on any subject let alone morals.

And this "morals coming from within" is not always true as none of us are equipped from birth to answer "every" possible question and education is necessary, IMHO.

[thilak4life]

thilak4life,

I totally agree with you that all's not perfect with the education - morals or otherwise. We sure need improvements (may be even wholesale revamp). My focus in this thread was only about whether "to have or not have" moral education. I hope I've stated where I stand on that question. Now, how it is to be done and what betterments can be made and such details need attention. There may be people better qualified than me to talk about that

Oho, that's without doubt mandatory IMO! So, I concur with your stance as well.

[Bipolar]

Thanks, thanks, thanks everyone for your replies!!!

Like Thilak4life, I agree with App_engine that children need guidance, and again, I agree "how it is to be done and what betterments can be made and such details need attention"...

Like Wibha, we too had just a period in which we used to learn stories, and we were told to answer the questions, and then we had an exam at the end of the year on the subject. I really feel that this is where the Indian education system is going badly wrong. Of course, the Indian system is based on the old British system, and noone seems to have any interest in trying to update the system. I think, by the time I was about eleven or twelve years old, the stuff we were being taught in moral science lessons was becoming somewhat patronising.

I came to England when I was fourteen. At school, we had religious education, but this was education about the various religions and cultures of the world, rather than learning religious principles, i.e. they were not encouraging us to be religious. They did encourage us to debate things, ask questions, and critically analyse things. During my first year at university, we were encouraged to consider the relative merits of deontology (I think this can be roughly described as duty-based ethics) versus utilitarianism (the greatest benefit for the greatest number) versus virtue theory. I had considered those concepts even while I was still at school. Most children are quite capable of understanding these ideas, but the school system in India underestimates them. Sometimes it seems that the system in India is trying to give teachers something to teach, rather than giving students something to learn.

You know they say "Actions speak louder than words." So true. It's easy to sit and preach, harder to practise. India needs deep, far-reaching cultural changes from the bottom up to the top. In recent times, there has been much talk about the economic growth in India and China. Of course, both countries have been making progress, but... check this article out. You might feel a little hurt. I did, but then I realised, it hurts because it's true. This might not seem relevant, but actually the question I raised in this thread is only a very small part of a much bigger picture.

Consider this: a person's character - or maybe we should use the word "behaviour" - is determined by many things, and in fact, think about it carefully, you will see that it's not all under the person's control. Both nature and nurture have effects on the development of an individual's personality traits and behaviour.

Some people may have a natural tendency to be kind and caring, whereas other people may be naturally impatient, competitive and aggressive. They don't choose to be like that, it's just their genes, and they have no control over their genes. (This is an interesting article - but there is so much scientists still have to learn.) People can't control their genes any more than they can control the colour of their skin or eyes.

Of course, it's not all in the genes, some of it is influenced by a person's experiences. Now this, we can influence. Here, morals taught in school may have a role to play, but much more important, are a child's experiences while growing up - what a child sees around himself/herself - rather than just what their teachers tell them. They learn by observing what adults do, and you know what - a lot of adults are even more selfish than children. Children have an inclination to innocently trust everyone - they assume that everyone is good, that adults know everything, and that everyone wants to help everyone else. As one grows older, that innocence is broken, and you realise what an ugly place the world can be. Maybe if we lived in Utopia... but we don't. But I still wish that we could make efforts to set good examples for our children.

Children can be taught compassion by teaching them to respect others, and in order to do that, they have to learn first to respect themselves. In order to do that, they have to be taught that they have valuable contributions to make to society, and to the world. Each and every one of us is important. A person who doesn't understand that is likely to waste his/her life away. I think such people are more likely to make bad choices in life, because they don't realise how their actions can have far-reaching consequences for themselves, and for the people around them.

Unfortunately, in a country like India, individuality is not encouraged. Everyone is expected to blindly follow the rules laid down by society... even though these rules were laid down so long ago, they probably don't make sense any more. Of course, I accept we need a set of rules, but the rules shouldn't be rigid and unchangeable. That's why I think India needs cultural change alongside economic growth. We need to learn from the mistakes of the past - our own mistakes, and mistakes made by others.

Culturally, the affluent classes in India seem to be heading towards Westernisation or maybe it's Americanisation. There is certainly plenty that India can learn from the West. The West got many things right. That's why they are economically and technologically way ahead of India. But they also made some mistakes. Don't judge them moralistically, but be objective and rational - examine the choices that were made, and the consequences that followed, and then decide what you want to do - but don't EVER be moralistic!!!

One good way to encourage solid character building is through sports. Sports can teach discipline, perseverence, and fairness. However, sadly in India, sport is given very little importance (aside from those playing in the Indian Cricket Team - and even they are only given attention because they can be used to advertise stuff - soft drinks, watches, motorbikes, cars, clothes, shoes, credit cards, the list is almost endless). India seems sadly unique in this respect. Almost every other country in the world - large or small, rich or poor, actually makes an effort with sports. How many medals did India win at the last Olympics? Why, how many medals has India won over the last 25 Olympic meets? Probably less than twenty in all (I could be totally wrong - please correct me if I am). This is disgraceful - utterly disgraceful for a country of over 1 billion people, don't you think? When was the last time that India even qualified for the football World Cup? Don't tell me it's because you don't have the money to spend on developing sport. You seem to have crores of rupees to spend on making and remaking utterly pointless movies. You seem to have crores to spend on cricketers. You do well at cricket because not many countries play it seriously. What about the real games? Soccer, tennis (okay, Sania Mirza, Mahesh Bhupathi, Leander Paes, but only three people out of a billion?) rugby, motorsport, basketball, etc.? You've had some success at hockey, but it's still not very impressive. Though it may seem irrelevant to the topic being discussed, India's dismal performance on the sporting scene shows the problem that you have - not that you lack the means, or the ability - you lack the will. Corruption is endemic within the system. Corruption is like a disease. In most countries, corruption is like an infection - it causes problems from time to time, it is troublesome, but it can be dealt with. In India, corruption is like cancer - it is slowly killing the system, and it is really difficult to deal with. The Chinese are making serious efforts to crackdown on corruption. In India, though, it seems to be culturally tolerated!!! People just seem to accept (or they have been worn down into accepting) that everything has a price - in money. Such attitudes have to be changed - that will go a long way towards making the country a better place to live in, and people will become better people.

I'm assuming that the vast majority of ForumHubbers are middle class NRIs from Tamil Nadu. Well, we live in a world of our own. We can often conveniently ignore the harsh difficulties faced by the lower socio-economic classes. We like to debate things (like this topic, for example) but we are not very good when it comes to actually taking action. You like to sit back and look at the bigger picture, but you don't want to pay much attention to the details - because, why does it really matter to you any more? You've made it, your children are making it... Why is it your problem any more? It's just too much trouble. Well, ask yourself why you left India in the first place. You left in search of something that India couldn't give you, and yet you claim that you are Indian. You know India has its faults and weaknesses. You've always known. What did you do about it? You packed up and left. You went somewhere else. But then you refuse to accept that when in Rome, you should do as the Romans do. You won't let your children do as the Romans do either. You are Indian, so your children should be too... right? Your children are so confused... where do they belong? Here? There? Hell, maybe they belong everywhere? But as far as you're concerned, your children belong where you want them to belong. But you're children find certain things in India to be totally alien to them. You know that, but you want them to accept things just the way they are. You've given up hope of making positive changes in India. You don't think there's anything you can do. You don't realise that actually, there are things that can be done. Maybe just little things, but there is something you can do.

We're moving inexorably towards becoming a part of the global village. But are you going to be dragged into it, like sheep being herded in by a sheepdog? Or will you make a careful, considered choice about where you want to be? It's up to the youth of the country to decide. That's why you have to sharpen their minds.

Again, I realise this post seems disorganised, jumping around, and digressing wildly from the topic under discussion... but I started this thread, and as I said, the topic itself is only a small part of a big picture, and I just couldn't resist pouring out my thoughts here. As always, I invite your comments, whether you agree with me or strongly disagree. (Probably my longest post so far!!!) Thank you.

[Braandan]

Subjects you learnt in school and college become irrelevant once you start living of your own.. just like that is Moral Science also..I spent more time 'unlearning' what I learned from my parents/teachers and from school/college before I really started proper 'learning'..

[thilak4life]

Subjects you learnt in school and college become irrelevant once you start living of your own.. just like that is Moral Science also..I spent more time 'unlearning' what I learned from my parents/teachers and from school/college before I really started proper 'learning'..

That's true. But I don't see any harm with this line of subject (the way I see it, it's mandatory), only the betterment is recommended.

[suba]

bipolar,

so, you suggest learning morality is a waste of time but learning science and logic would build a successful person. is that? fine. but i believe learning itself needs some morality. you have to be attendive to learn anything and being attendive falls within morality.

[pavalamani pragasam]

[wrap07]

Education/Advancement without charecter will only lead to chaos. Mere advancement in any field without morality and discpline has never succeeded and if it has been tried out, it has shaken our civilisation seriously.

In this we can take cue from our Country's ethos where the individual's morality and upbringing is most imporant when educating the children. This may be a thing of the past but the value of this system will be understood long before