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Thread: Tamil Brahmi inscriptions and other archaeological finds

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    Senior Member Senior Hubber podalangai's Avatar
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    Tamil Brahmi inscriptions and other archaeological finds

    This is a few weeks old, but I've not seen it discussed here, so...

    A Tamil Brahmi inscription dating from the first century BC has been discovered in Egypt. Iravatham Mahadevan has provided a tentative reading:

    http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/21/stor...2158412400.htm

    Tamil Brahmi inscriptions have been found before on the Egyptian Red Sea coast at Quseir-al-Qadim / Berenike, but this one is at least a century or so older.
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    Senior Member Diamond Hubber joe's Avatar
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    Podalangai,
    what is the meaning of 'Brahmi'? Is it a name of a type of Tamil script ? Is it related to Brahmins?
    பாசமலருக்கு அழாதவன் மனுஷனாடே ! - சுயம்புலிங்கம்

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    Moderator Platinum Hubber P_R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe
    Podalangai,
    what is the meaning of 'Brahmi'? Is it a name of a type of Tamil script ? Is it related to Brahmins?
    Joe, I don't think brahmi is linked with brahmins. Brahmi is a script used across India around the 3rd century BC. Asokan edicts were in Prakrit written in this Brahmi script. A recent discovery in Adichanallur in Tirunelveli found some Brahmi inscribed pottey which dates further back than Asoka.
    The Tamil Brahmi script is a bit different from the Asokan Brahmi and is considered the most ancient Tamil script.

    Vattezhuthu which evolved out of Brahmi was used to write Tamil, which was - as the name suggests- more rounded. This is because man had started moving out of rock-cut writing to palm leaves, which required smoother writing techniques.This slowly evolved to our current script.

    In another stream, Brahmi evolved to the Grantham script which was used for writing Sanskrit in Tamil areas. The convention was to write Tamil portions in Vattezethu and Sanskrit portions in Grantham !

    Was all that right podalangai ?
    மூவா? முதல்வா! இனியெம்மைச் சோரேலே

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    Moderator Platinum Hubber P_R's Avatar
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    Re: Tamil Brahmi inscription in Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by podalangai
    This is a few weeks old, but I've not seen it discussed here, so...

    A Tamil Brahmi inscription dating from the first century BC has been discovered in Egypt. Iravatham Mahadevan has provided a tentative reading:

    http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/21/stor...2158412400.htm

    Tamil Brahmi inscriptions have been found before on the Egyptian Red Sea coast at Quseir-al-Qadim / Berenike, but this one is at least a century or so older.
    Interesting news ! A few questions:
    Is the distinction between Asokan Brahmi and Tamil Brahmi something everyone agrees on ? Paanai Uri seems to be quite settling because the words exist till date. But what if the words have dropped out. Would it still be possible to tell apart Asokan and Tamil Brahmi just by the letters alone ? Is Adichanallur still the oldest Tamil Brahmi ever ? 6th century BC ?
    மூவா? முதல்வா! இனியெம்மைச் சோரேலே

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe
    Podalangai,
    what is the meaning of 'Brahmi'? Is it a name of a type of Tamil script ? Is it related to Brahmins?
    Dont worry about the Caste . Look at what it delivers to you . So, will you denounce tamil if the Brahmi is by Brahmin ?

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    Senior Member Senior Hubber podalangai's Avatar
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    Re: Tamil Brahmi inscription in Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
    Is the distinction between Asokan Brahmi and Tamil Brahmi something everyone agrees on ? Paanai Uri seems to be quite settling because the words exist till date. But what if the words have dropped out. Would it still be possible to tell apart Asokan and Tamil Brahmi just by the letters alone?
    Yes. For a (very) brief summary of some of the differences, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_script#History

    In this case, the inscription uses the vallinam "R" (ற் in the modern Tamil script), which makes it pretty clear that the inscription is in Tamil, as Asokan Brahmi didn't have the character. Even otherwise, nearly all Tamil Brahmi inscriptions distinguish pure consonants (meyezhuthu with puLLi) from consonants with an inherent vowel (meyezhuththu + "a"), which standard Brahmi usually doesn't do. This makes it quite easy to distinguish Tamil Brahmi from standard Brahmi.

    Finally, because of the Sangam literature, we have an excellent idea of what Tamil was like in the 1st century BC. As a result, we are in a position to recognise even those words that have dropped out of everyday use in modern Tamil, because they were used in Sangam Tamil.
    ni enna periya podalangai-nu ennama?

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    Senior Member Senior Hubber podalangai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe
    Podalangai,
    what is the meaning of 'Brahmi'? Is it a name of a type of Tamil script ? Is it related to Brahmins?
    Vanakkam Joe

    "Brahmi" is the name of a script that was used by Asoka and later rulers to write inscriptions in Prakrit. From the 1st or 2nd century AD, it was also used to write Sanskrit. The script is called "Brahmi" in Sanskrit texts - the name has nothing to do with "Brahmins", but refers to a north Indian legend that the script was given by Brahma ("Brahmi" in Sanskrit means "of Brahma" or "coming from Brahma").

    A version of the Brahmi script was used in Tamil Nadu to write Tamil. This differs in many ways from the northern Brahmi, and even from the Brahmi used to write Sanskrit and Prakrit in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, so it is usually called "Tamil Brahmi" to distinguish it from standard Brahmi.

    Apart from the difference in the letters, the way they are used is also different. In the north, most inscriptions in Brahmi are long inscriptions recording charters or laws promulgated by kings. In Tamil Nadu, however, most inscriptions are carvings on pottery (to identify the owner of the pot or the use to which it was put), epitaphs on "nadukkal", and short carvings on stones made by individuals. Iravatham Mahadevan suggests that this means that literacy was a lot more widespread in the Tamil country than elsewhere in India.

    Finally, the traditional account of the origin of Brahmi is that it was adapted from a Semitic script in north India during Asoka's time, and then moved to the South. However, tentative datings of recent excavations suggest that the oldest Brahmi inscriptions found in Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka (names inscribed on pots) are from a time before Asoka, possibly dating to the fourth or fifth century BC. This suggests that the traditional theory may be wrong. Dr. Gift Siromoney had argued almost twenty years ago, before the discovery of this evidence, that the script was first used for Tamil - you can read some of his papers here http://www.cmi.ac.in/gift/default.htm. But we still don't know for sure.
    ni enna periya podalangai-nu ennama?

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    Moderator Platinum Hubber P_R's Avatar
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    Thank You podalangai. As always
    Quote Originally Posted by podalangai
    Dr. Gift Siromoney had argued almost twenty years ago, before the discovery of this evidence, that the script was first used for Tamil - you can read some of his papers here http://www.cmi.ac.in/gift/default.htm. But we still don't know for sure.
    What a fantastic character !! He is just all over the place. Thank you once again podalangai !

    >digr.>
    Prof. Siromoney also formed a research group to work on Character Recognition, especially the characters of Tamil, Malayalam and Devanagari. The methods he developed with the assistance of this group will be useful for designing a new generation of computers.

    Prof.Siromoney's research team was the first to make large-scale iconometric measurements of Indian sculptures.

    He opened up new avenues of research in the field of Harappan script by applying mathematical techniques such as Cluster analysis and Dynamic Programming to decipher the Indus seals. Similarly, techniques of Image Processing and Character Recognition were employed to read inscriptions.

    Dr. Siromoney has made significant contributions to the field of Tribal Studies. The various facets of the culture of Narikkkuravas (Vagrivala, a nomadic gypsy tribe) -- medicine, music, language, snares etc., --drew his scholarly attention. With a view to providing literacy to the people of the tribe, he produced the first ever books in Vagriboli (the language of Vagrivala) using the Tamil script. (Microfiches of the mimeographed books have reached the Library of Congress in Washington D.C(SAI 81/00151 and 82/60278-60280).

    Environmental Studies also caught the scholarly imagination of Prof.Siromoney. He has prepared check-lists of birds and butterflies of Tambaram area, and conducted experiments on the college farm in the areas of poultry, piggery and agriculture, adopting statistical methods. His articles in Newsletter for Birdwatchers make an interesting read.

    With Prof.C.T.Kurien (a renowned economist who taught in Madras Christian College) he has collaborated on a study of saving pattern. The public opinion surveys he conducted in Tamil Nadu were the first of their kind and so were his studies on public health and literacy. The results of these statewide surveys were published in national and local newspapers so that the findings could be accessible to the common man
    <<
    மூவா? முதல்வா! இனியெம்மைச் சோரேலே

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    Senior Member Diamond Hubber joe's Avatar
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    Thanks Prabhu Ram and Podalangai
    பாசமலருக்கு அழாதவன் மனுஷனாடே ! - சுயம்புலிங்கம்

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