See, that's the problem with wiki. The history of the page reveals that the part you quote was added on April 26, 2008, with no references. I haven't read Valmiki's Ramayana, but if someone has, please throw light on Valmiki's presentation of the man.Originally Posted by pizzalot
"Why do we need filmmaking equipment?"
"Because, Marcel, my sweet, we're going to make a film. Just for the Nazis."
.
.Rama's Life.. a PRACTICAL DEMONSTRATION of Ideal-Humanity...
...according to Valmiki Ramayana.
According to Valmiki Ramayana.. Rama is depicted as JUST A MAN...See, that's the problem with wiki. The history of the page reveals that the part you quote was added on April 26, 2008, with no references. I haven't read Valmiki's Ramayana, but if someone has, please throw light on Valmiki's presentation of the man.
... although an Incarnation of Vishnu.
Rama himself says "Aathmaanaam MAANUSHAM manyae"... which means..."Amongst all the Souls, I am the HUMAN-BEING."
The whole Valmiki Ramayana shows Rama as a MODEL MAN of IDEOLOGIC...
...Emulative Hero of Human-Values...
..showing out... all sorts of Emotions, Feelings and Reactions as any Common-man would...
...under the grip of UNFORESEEN turn and impact of Life-circumstances.
As any Common-man... Rama commits Mistakes and Blunders too... causing Miseries, Sorrow and such Negative Human-feelings...
...on which He weeps Cries and laments... blaming on His FATE...
...although being God... with no previous Births... had NO KARMAS nor Fate...
... to result in the due consequences in the subsequent birth.
And He unduly falls prey to the clutches of Anger and RASH decisions too...
...resulting in getting innocently trapped along with His ideal-wife and Brother...
...under the Wicked hands of his Enemy's machinations.
However Rama never got frustrated in Life... even under the worst onslaughts of circumstances...
...as well as in confronting the Enemies challenges.
Ultimately Rama proved to the World eternally that He has DEMONSTRATED to the Mankind...
..as to how any Common man... is PRONE to get caught unaware... under the wicked plans of Adharmic / Unrighteous forces...
...in the disguise of Kings, Rulers and Social-protectors.!
...and how an Ideal Man ignorantly or innocently becomes a Sinner too...
...because of his FAULTY DECISIONS... and WRONG APPROACH without considering the Source of Problems.
In brief... the Message of Lord Rama to Mankind is...
"You my dear Man... You are endowed with Supreme powers in the forms of WISDOM, MIND and SOUL powers...
...by using which in the proper approach laid down by the Law of Righteousness stipulated by Vedic Doctrines...
..You can SUCCESSFULLY lead a ROYAL LIFE...
...enjoying well on your great Earthly birth... well utilizing your rare opportunity as the Supreme creature.
You can observe from my Ramayana Life-History... when any of us committed Mistakes and Blunders...
..violating the Stipulations of Dharma... and the Law of Moral Life-code...
...we became the Victims of Circumstances... SUFFERED, got CHEATED... and INNOCENTLY TRAPPED under our Enemies cruel Hands.
Contrarily... whenever we took the Right decisions and approach...
...we got Victory, Fame and Glory.
So here is a Lesson... showing both the Sides of Man and Life."
Thus Ramayana... is a Model-Lesson for Mankind....
..which God wanted to DEMONSTRATE... as a Human-being...
...PRACTICALLY... on what He preached in Vedas..
.
Hi Prabhu, I missed ya all. So am back again.
It is a broken link Prabhu. Can you send me the correct one so I can go through ?
Albert Einstein
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!"
Oops !
See if this works
மூவா? முதல்வா! இனியெம்மைச் சோரேலே
Sudhaama .. you just created a new record of confusing everyone here. No one objects to the fact that Ramayana is a lesson in which everyone has something to learn from. But what is that "Model Lesson" ???? Do you want every lesson to be based on that lesson ? Make it clear.. Was Rama just a common man according to Valmiki or a ideal character to be emulated by man kind ? You acknowledged that he sinned. Then you call him a ideal man. How did he become "ideal" and "emulative" hero afterwards ?.
.Rama's Life.. a PRACTICAL DEMONSTRATION of Ideal-Humanity...
...according to Valmiki Ramayana.
According to Valmiki Ramayana.. Rama is depicted as JUST A MAN...See, that's the problem with wiki. The history of the page reveals that the part you quote was added on April 26, 2008, with no references. I haven't read Valmiki's Ramayana, but if someone has, please throw light on Valmiki's presentation of the man.
... although an Incarnation of Vishnu.
Rama himself says "Aathmaanaam MAANUSHAM manyae"... which means..."Amongst all the Souls, I am the HUMAN-BEING."
The whole Valmiki Ramayana shows Rama as a MODEL MAN of IDEOLOGIC...
...Emulative Hero of Human-Values...
..showing out... all sorts of Emotions, Feelings and Reactions as any Common-man would...
...under the grip of UNFORESEEN turn and impact of Life-circumstances.
As any Common-man... Rama commits Mistakes and Blunders too... causing Miseries, Sorrow and such Negative Human-feelings...
...on which He weeps Cries and laments... blaming on His FATE...
...although being God... with no previous Births... had NO KARMAS nor Fate...
... to result in the due consequences in the subsequent birth.
And He unduly falls prey to the clutches of Anger and RASH decisions too...
...resulting in getting innocently trapped along with His ideal-wife and Brother...
...under the Wicked hands of his Enemy's machinations.
However Rama never got frustrated in Life... even under the worst onslaughts of circumstances...
...as well as in confronting the Enemies challenges.
Ultimately Rama proved to the World eternally that He has DEMONSTRATED to the Mankind...
..as to how any Common man... is PRONE to get caught unaware... under the wicked plans of Adharmic / Unrighteous forces...
...in the disguise of Kings, Rulers and Social-protectors.!
...and how an Ideal Man ignorantly or innocently becomes a Sinner too...
...because of his FAULTY DECISIONS... and WRONG APPROACH without considering the Source of Problems.
In brief... the Message of Lord Rama to Mankind is...
"You my dear Man... You are endowed with Supreme powers in the forms of WISDOM, MIND and SOUL powers...
...by using which in the proper approach laid down by the Law of Righteousness stipulated by Vedic Doctrines...
..You can SUCCESSFULLY lead a ROYAL LIFE...
...enjoying well on your great Earthly birth... well utilizing your rare opportunity as the Supreme creature.
You can observe from my Ramayana Life-History... when any of us committed Mistakes and Blunders...
..violating the Stipulations of Dharma... and the Law of Moral Life-code...
...we became the Victims of Circumstances... SUFFERED, got CHEATED... and INNOCENTLY TRAPPED under our Enemies cruel Hands.
Contrarily... whenever we took the Right decisions and approach...
...we got Victory, Fame and Glory.
So here is a Lesson... showing both the Sides of Man and Life."
Thus Ramayana... is a Model-Lesson for Mankind....
..which God wanted to DEMONSTRATE... as a Human-being...
...PRACTICALLY... on what He preached in Vedas..
.
Albert Einstein
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!"
Ok. Thank you Prabhu. I read the post. I am interested in AK's references about Ram in Sangam. Sangam and only Sangam is being quoted repeatedly as uncontaminated base reference of Tamils according to many tamils. In the link you provided AK says "The Ramayan finds a mention in at least two places in the Sangam corpus, which is traditionally dated between 200 BC and 200 AD. In one reference, Ram orders chirping birds to silence. In another, the monkeys wear, in a monkey-like manner, the jewels discarded by Sita while she was being abducted by Ravan. It is worthwhile to note here that both these incidents find no mention in the Valmiki Ramayan. The ease with which these incidents have been woven into the poems indicates that the Ramayan story was well known in the Tamil country during the Sangam period."
Can someone elaborate it and give more details as to which couplet this information was drawn ? Is AK's observation conclusive ? I would like to know if sangam refered to the same Rama the King Of Ayodhya, UP as mentioned in Valmiki's Ramayana. We all have learnt a little that ayodhi was what azhwars called the temple of the rama they worshipped in South. But we also know that that rama was not same as Rama@Ayodhya,UP. I just want to confirm that Sangam indeed refered to Valmiki's Ramayana.
Albert Einstein
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!"
.
.Model Lessons from Rama.?
(1) I never said that Rama SINNED... But only said and meant He too committed Mistakes and Blunders even...
..in some cases... under the grip of DELICATE AND EMBARASSING confused Circumstantances.
And perhaps some such blunders might have caused Sins... We do not know...
Valmiki does not say about His Sins or Virtues or the so called resultant-effect named Karmas... accrued out of his deeds.
(2) According to Vedic principles...
Amongs the Humans... Nobody is totally a PUNYAATHMA (Virtuous Person)....
...and Nobody is totally Paapaathma (Sinner).
Rather everybody is partly a Sinner and partly Virtuous... of varying degrees from person to person.
So to say UNINTENTIONALLY or INADVERTANTLY we may commit some sins...
..for which the Governments and the Kings may not Excuse...
..but God upto some extent condones and pardons...
..provided the person REALIZES and CONFESSES before God whole-heartedly...
..and promises to be more careful in future.
(2) What are the Lessons imparted by Rama to Mankind?
This is a Big Question to be answered in several volumes of books.
However a few points in brief...
(a) Rama is named as THYAGARAJA... a "King of Sacrifice" .. SELFLESSLY..
... to ensure protection of Social-justice... Family-unity... Moral-Values... and Divine-Doctrines stipulated by Vedas.
Even in case of delicate circumstances he had foregone his rights... thus a tactful Problem-shooter... even at his own cost.
(b) Victory in Life by any means... is the BESTIAL-LAW and Not the Human-Law...
..So not only our intention but also the means and approach also should be righteous, just and commonly acceptable impersonally.
For example if Rama's purpose of seeking help from Sugreeva was to gain strength to win over Ravana...
..he could have gained better strength.. by aligning with Vali the mightier amongst the two brothers.
But he supported Sugreeva and sought his help only... because Vali's support will indirectly mean supporting his unjust deeds and pursuits...
...whereas in case of supporting Sugreeva, it means supporting Justice... especially to an innocent victim.
(c) In Life... unless we are interested in the Others Welfare .. at par with ours...
..we cannot deserve nor expect others to be our Well-wishers..
...Rather Humanitarian-Love and Respect... must voluntarily forthcoming from us first..
Similarly even for the minute benefit and support we gain from others...
..we should duly recognise it... voluntarily... before such human gestures are demanded from others.
Rama proved his sense of Gratitude MAGNANIMOUSLY... more than it deserves by embracing a Boatman Guha, a Monkey Sugreeva and an Asura Vibheeshana... ignoring their status and personal backgrounds.
(d) Rama had utmost respect for Woman-hood and so was strict not to make women as PLAYTOYS of Males... by having several Wives and Concubines...
..thus BREAKING THE PRACTICE in those days of Male Chauvanism.
(e) Even a King is NOT AN EXCEPTION on Human-Laws... and so the Ruler should not violate the Principle of Justice and the Laws of Humanity...
...but must ensure SELF-DISCIPLINE as a Model- Leader for his subjects.
(f) The Voice and Views of every citizen... irrespective of status must be equally honoured and has to be considered IMPERSONALLY ensuring overall- justice and importance to one and all concerned with us.
In brief.. whatever we expect from others... we should volunteer to offer magnanimously...
...by means of our constant endeavour...
... towards optimum UNCULPABILITY in Life.
..Which alone is the GREATEST VICTORY in Life...
...of utmost HAPPINESS... by keeping the Head high...
...with a ROYAL WALK in Life of Supreme. Pride.!!!
.
Ok. Got the message. Thanks Sudhaama. But can someone here express Valmiki's original description of Rama as Kannannn requested ?
Also in this thread we are talking about Tamilar God etc etc. We are saying that there was a brief mention of Rama in Sangam lit. But first can someone first prove Rama was mentioned in Rig and other Vedas ? Because Valmiki wrote in Sanskrit. Rig Veda was also supposed to have been documented in Sanskrit. So did Rig Veda talk about Rama and his Kingdom and Ravana? Someone please throw some cents please. Sorry for asking basic questions , but I believe if Rama pre-dated Rig Veda then definitely there should be a mention of him in Rig.
Albert Einstein
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!"
PunnaiMaran,Dear Sriranga,so, do you also agree Tamil culture is getting corrupted with muslim/christian beliefs?
Devapriya, why do you have to quote these things? what does it acheive?we all know that tamil culture got corrupted with vedic religion] since the beginning of first millenia. We find that tamil literature is progressively secular as we go back older in date. Doesnt that point to infiltration of beleifs ?
seri, whatever be the case.. what is the point in discussing these things? Will my day get better if I accept that Rama is a tamil god
if you are secular you gotta agree to it.
do we need to get into the tamil culture now?
if you love tamil culture, why did you learn english then?
if accepting rama as tamil god doesn't make your day better, why do you bother visiting this thread and why do you waste your day posting here?
you can be secular, but don't mock at people who are trying to develop themselves spiritually and sharing their knowledge with others who are interested in it.
TV is sharing his knowledge with others who are interested in his view. So it may not be a waste of his day. You are entitled to your view and TV to his. And if in saying Ram is a Tamil God develops you sprirtually, I'm happy for you.
I would rather develop my spirituality by following the good virtues attributed to him than by deciding whether he is a Tamil God or a Greek one.
Regards
Punnaimaran
you seem to be missing the point.
TV's post suggest that because Rama is from the North and you being a tamilian, you should not follow the good virtues he stood for and remain uncorrupted and secular( can somebody explain the exact meaning of this term to me, and the exact opposite of this term).
( some people with all the good virtues claim that Rama never stood for anything good is altogether another matter and is out of scope for this discussion.)
and thats why those questions to TV.
AFAIK, To develop spiritually, you don't even have to say "ram is a tamil god", just say "Ram". Thats it.
Gun-a edunna Bun-a edukara
Dear Sriranga,
Got your point.
Thanks
Punnaimaran
இந்தக் காட்டில் எந்த மூங்கில் இசைக்க வல்லது என்று மயங்கிய பொழுது
இறைவன் தேர்ந்தெடுத்தப் புல்லாங்குழல் தான் நம் இசைஞானி !!
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