SURVIVAL & Advancement of TAMIL.!!.?

[Sudhaama]

//.... how they write the names in Tamil. I mean, as you would know, because you name is ...... ‚ɢšºý, I've seen SUN TV, and some magazines, write it as... º£É¢Å¡ºý. That never made sense to me either.//

Yes. ..the Valid point. Especially in case of Proper Nowns.... where the Phonetics of the Original Names should NOT be changed.

And if changed .... it gives different meanings too in some cases.

For example "‚ -¿¢Å¡ºý" is the Name of God Srinivasa at Thirumalai Hills... means...

...One who has given Living-place to "LAKSHMI" (Goddess of Wealth and Vishnu's Consort)

... It has several other auspicious and fertile Meanings too.... but...

... if changed as º£É¢ -Å¡ºý ... it means different as...

... One who lives in Sugar... so to say... "ANT."...

... I am "Srinivasan".... "NOT an... "ANT"

[Surya]

Sorry, Coming here after a long time.

Exactly. there's no point to it. It distorts the meaning of the name.

///One who lives in Sugar... so to say... "ANT////

[Sudhaama]

RR,

Please arrange to....

(1) Change the Thread Title... as ....
__________________________________________________ ___________

PATTIMANRHAM: 1 - Translation or Transliteration of POPULAR NAMES?
__________________________________________________ ___________

(2) Introduce POLL-OPTIONS.... 3

1. Should .be RETAINED as....COMPUTER ... by.. TRANSLITERATION.
(in Tamil Letters during Tamil usages ALSO)
.
2. Should be RENAMED... as... KANINI ..by... TRANSLATION ...to... Tamil

3. BOTH ... For Students. and Professionals.

Sudhaama

[Sudhaama]

"kannvino"

// My Dear Tamil Folks, ..... Could anyone tell me meaning for"LIFT" (Which will carry people in multistorey building ) in tamil. Thanks in advance..... Best Regards,..... R.Kannan //

[Lifting Tamil by .... "LIFT".... ???.... !!!

Why should it be Tamilised?.... Why NOT call it .... as LIFT (Ä¢·ôð) .... in Tamil also?

For this English word .... there are several created Tamil-words.... propped up about 60 years back..... e.g....

.... YEZHUMBI (±ØõÀ¢) .....

... THOOKKI-PETTI (à츢ô-¦ÀðÊ) ....

... MIN-THOOKKI-ARHAI ( Á¢ý-à츢-«¨È) .... and so on...

How many people know that various options of Tamilised words... ALREADY EXIST...

... since the past Six-decades?... Why Not in Vogue?.... Are these Not Funny?

Frankly speaking... I am unable to understand ... such ..... "TAMIL- FANATICISM"....

Dear Friends, please don't get angry... nor fight with me... but try to understand the Practicability... Reality.... based on our adequate past Experience on the matter.


My experience....

One mother was beating his Son... a School-boy... who was just crying without reply.

... I asked the Mother... "Why are you beating your small boy.... so cruelly?"

.... "See... this useless Tiny tot... is Not Obeying my Advice?.... "

... Why so my dear Boy?

... Uncle... I asked my Mummy... why the Rice is called as "Arisi" in Tamil... I don't like it. So I will call it as KIRISI only. On hearing this my mummy got angry and without answering my Question she started beating me.

" Oh!... so simple... Well... You are at Freedom to call it as "Kirisi" only.... and when your Mother asks you to get Arisi from the Market... You can ask the Shop-keeper to give you... "Kirisi"...

"... But do you know... what will you get?... Neither Kirisi nor Arisi nor Rice... The Shop-keeper will get angry with you that you are fooling him... by uttering some Non-sense word...

... and the People around... will call you a Fool and Laugh at you... since the article you seek is ...

... already... POPULARLY KNOWN as.... "Arisi".... and why should you create a New word....

... as... "Kirisi" ... of.... YOUR OWN?

The same argument is applicable here... especially in the case of .... NEW-INVENTIONS.

Why not call an Incubator... as INCUBATOR and Television as TELEVISION... Radio as RADIO only...

... as also the Computer as COMPUTER only.... Why a New-Tamilian-CREATURE ... KANINI?

... And ... similarly.... what is wrong... in calling a ... Lift... as... LIFT... only?

... If you call by any Tamilised word as the Substitute... How many People can understand what you MEAN....?

... Not only NON-Tamilians... but also.... the TAMILIANS themselves!

... As we see the Funny Fate of .... COMPUTER.... !!!

... sitting in some of the .... KANINI-MINDED .... Tamilians !!

... Let us be PRACTICAL.... and Perceptible to REALITIES....

All My Dear Friends....

On this Subject I am aready participating in the Patti-Manrham-1... You ALL are Welcome to put forth your... "Pro"... or.... "Counter'- Points ... as you feel proper.

Am I WRONG to say so?

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear friends,

You are all worrying like non-tamil people worrying about.

Let us create own tamil words for new inventions. If it is possible in tamil why do you worry about that. It will all add the vocabulary of tamil language in addition to english or foreign words.

Let the people use any of these words according to their wish. A language eloquency will stand on its vocabulary. Let that vocabulary be flourished not only by derived/debted words but also through new words.

Those languages that are not able to produce new words will have no other way but use debted words.

Tamil has so many root words. We can create lot of simple words instead of lengthy hard words. For example we can use 'Thanmi' for Fridge/refrigerator.

'Adai kappan' can be used for incubator.

-Note that tamil gave words/script to lot of languages who did not have words/script in the world is the history.-

I can give lot of simple equivalent tamil words to Mr.Sudhaama's lenthy words.

This is one way of making tamil grown up. Not putting down.

Everytamil will benefit out of it.

You all are English educated. Imagine if not english educated: You would have formulated new words in tamil. If you don't do people they themselves will formulate their own words. This is natural.

Hence new tamil words will add growth to the language.Never suppress it.

For tamil this discussion is not neccessary.

f.s.gandhi

[Sudhaama]

Dear Mr. Gandhi,

I am surprised to note that ... you have MISTAKEN my stand...

My Question pertains to ONLY ... NEW INVENTIONS and DISCOVERIES...

Should we CREATE another Word .. EXCLUSIVELY ... for Tamilians sake?

... as.... "Kanini".... in ADDITION... tof its INTERNATIONALLY POPULAR- COMMON- Name for.. "COMPUTER".... a "New-Invention"?

In brief... My Stand is...In One Voice... with our Bharathi.. + YOU.. to.. .

(1) POPULARISE.. the EXISTING Tamil-words...so far under RESTRICTED USE only in our current Wriiten Tamil...

... Substituting...in place of Tamil "Thisai- ch- Chorhkalh" ...

...Example :-- . "Badhil" = "MARHU-MOZHI"...

(2) SEARCH ...for NEW TAMIL-WORDS.. so to say.. the existing. SENDHAMIZH- Words in our Literature... including the Ancient Changa-th- Thamizh ... although hitherto UNKNOWN since out of use as HIDDEN. ...

Example:-- "Mischief" = Vishamam / Kurhumbu / CHUNDAAYAM

(3)CREATE .... newly TRANSLATED Tamil-words in place of Foreign- Language Words... unlike our present UNNECESSARILY use profusely...in the current Tamil... not only Spoiken... but also in Written Tamil..

Example :-- "Member" = Membar / Angkaththinar / URHUPPINAR.

......................... "Secretary" = Sekkarattari / Kaariyadharisi / SEYALAALHAR

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Bengali" is one of the Languages ... I know... at least Fairly. So while I was in Bengal I have noticed their usage. of their Mother-Tongue... alongside English.

"Arab" .. is one of the Languages... I keenly observed.. while I was in Saudi- Arabia.

"French".. is one of the Languages .. I am taking interest to learn... (adding to my present knowledge on Linguistics)...

... after observing its usage all over Europe as a common-language... as personally observed during my Europe.-tour

"Chinese" is One of the Languages.. I am observing... through my several Chinese Friends here... at America.

"English" is one of the Languages I am profusely using in this Foreign- Land... MORE than my Mother-Tongue.

And in Conclusion... How much they LOVE their Mother-Tongue....

... and take troubles to use ONLY the Words of their Mother-Tobngue...

... in the course of their CONVERSATION too...!!!

in the lines I mentioned above..... I have Observed ... and WONDERED!!!

I believe ... their Languages too are No doubt... "GREAT"... in different aspects...

.. and also ...I feel that... Those People also are GREAT ... because of ..

... their Principle as well as the Degree and Standard of WISE And WHOLE-HEARTED usage...

... without any LINGUISTIC-FANATICISM (even towards their Mother-Tongue)...to their BEST ADVANTAGE ..

... selectively amongst the Mother-Tongue Vs. Climatic-Languages

... and thus spreading the Spirit of the BIRDS OF THE SAME FEATHER.

.... as YAAVARUM- KAELHIR... wherever they are..

Our "Thamizh" TOO ... is NO DOUBT ....Great...but... but ..but ... but

... Are we the... "TAMILIANS" .... Greater or at least Equally GREAT?

... Mr. Gandhi .. You are more PRIVELEGED .. . to answer my Question

.. since you are experiencing similar to mine ...

In brief... my CHARGE... on our current Thamizhar-Brethren ... in GENERAL .. is...

We are ... TAMIL-FANATICS... in One Aspect... and THAMIZH- DEGRADERS in another Aspect ... in my Opinion.

Indha-th- Tamizh- Manrhaththai... ARHIVAARNDHA VALHAMAAKKI -VARUM ..

... Peru Madhippirhkurhiya... Thiru GANDHI Anbarae.... ippoadhu koorum Aiyaa

Umadhu Vaakku-ch-cheettu.. "Kanini"-ikkaa ?.. KAMPIYOOTTAR-ukkaa?

[Ilavenil]

I think translation is better than transliteration for new inventions and discoveries. I am talking purely about new words and not the ones already in use like "cycle".

Why not introduce new tamil words to people even before they get used to transliteration? I really love it, when I say "min anjal" instead of email. Playing with newly coined tamil words is fun too. This way we get to expand the vocabulary of tamil and let tamil live longer. But the translation should be simple, meaningful and easy to use.

I think when someone invents something, he has to name it and it definitely cannot be a some word that already exists. If we have to learn the new word anyway, why not it be in tamil itself???

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Dear Mr. sudhaama,

Let us analyse the language issue in global perspective.

Language is not only used in communication but also importantly used in education lower/higher pertaining to particular subject which will lead people to new inventions/ discoveries in their subject.

You mentioned about the people love for their mother tongue.

Psychologically this tendency of people is due to the 'identity crisis' and this starts from name,village,district,state,nationality and combines with religion and language.

Hence mother tongue-love for mother tongue- is imaginatively perceived thing. We have to look into the practical outcome this perception. Otherwise mere love for language will turn as fanatism and deliver no fruitful to the society of world as a whole.

If you observe world leading communities you can come to know that they study their art / science in one language preferably their mother tongue. No language load is for them.

They concentrate on subjects and the language eloquency automatically get into their minds. This flow makes them creative than other developing nations.

Transliterated words will affect the flow of language if not as words but in sentences/phrases. Hence flow of thinking is affected.Creativeness becomes zero.

Before 2000 years we used tamil uniterupted and so the thinking was far better to produce new inventions in medicine(siddha) / engineering (River bridges, Stone temples).

Before 1000 years words of different sound mixed the flow of thinking was abruptly stopped. No new significant breakthrough was achieved in inventions. It will fit to all indian languages.

In present political scenario studying higher education through one language in tamil nadu / anywhere in india is not possible.

In such situation we can use both derived and translated words sentences otherwise translated words is the best way.

Translation is required always because at some point of time tamil language may be used for higher studies pertinent to the belief that job opporutunities created indegeniously.

Then tamils may become inventors and all other world will follow of what we do it now.

English is mixture of saxian and latin languages. But the sound it produces wont be affected by derived words as derived words are
changed to its sound. Moreover English cannot coin new words as it does not have much root words. For new inventions they try to put available nouns/ persons who invented. That is the case with other languages.

Tamil has many roots that we can coin new relevant easy words added to tamils dictionary.

In society socially and educationally forward masses are impressing the economically forward masses first and economically backward masses next.

This educationally forward masses follow the language they studied and hence this confusion prevails.

The language in education like in Japan and in China should have one languages formula.

Otherwise two language/you add one more-national three language formula will make smart people and not creative people.

[senthilkumaras]

dear fsg,

more important than creating new translations for foreign words,

what we need is to SEARCH SANGA noolgal(I prefer to call it KOODAL noolgal)-

WHICH IS A GOLDEN REALM OF ORIGINAL EARLIEST AND

EASY TO USE, SHORT-SYLLABLED ROOT WORDS- for

LOST WORDS which give equivalent meanings for the present

foreign words in use. eg;

raasi (in astrology)=iyal

constellation=gnyaa koottam, azhal kuttam,...

SURYAN=GNAAYIRRU(surprisingly still in use AS a weekday) where

GNYAA=STAR, IRRU=LAST, meaning "NEARBY STAR"-(Sun is our

nearest star, isn't HE?)

kaalam=poazhthu,gnyaandru,..

nakshathiram=vinnmeen,naannmeen,...

fortress-aeyil

how nice with all the present advances in science and
technology

we have now, if we have another u.ve.saminatha iyer to find the

still lost koodal literature of the earlier academies prior to

900 B.C.E. !-from under the ground-(also how nice if ASI

cooperates without envy ) and from the DEEP UNDER THE INDIAN

OCEAN IN THE ESTIMATED LOCATIONS OF OLD SUBMERGED CITIES

KAVADAM AND THENMADURAI! (LIKE they have already done at

ALEXANDRIA,DWARAKA,ETC.,\)

[senthilkumaras]

MR.SUDHAMAN,
STOP CALLING US TAMIL FANATICS OR TAMIL CHAUVINISTS
WHEN THE INDIAN GOVT AND NORTH INDIAN SCHOLARS STRIVE THIS HARD TO REVIVE A DEAD (NOT IN PUBLIC USE,"EXTINCT") LANGUAGE,

WHY SHOULDN'T WE TAKE ANY STEPS TO REJUVENATE ANOTHER CLASSICAL LANGUAGE THAT IS STILL STANDING TALL AND ALIV?(ESPECIALLY WHEN THE BRAHMINISTIC ANTI-TAMIL (JJ) TN GOVT IS NOT CARING TO UPHOLD EITHER THE GREATNESS OF TAMIL OR TAMIL PEOPLE?)

WE ARE JUST AN NGO TAMIL LOYALIST AND AMATEUR SCHOLARS DOING OUR EARNEST DUTY THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY DEPT OF TAMIL,TN GOVT, JUST LIKE DEPT'S OF SANSKRIT WORK HARD IN THE CENTRAL AND NORTH INDIAN STATE GOVT'S.

AND ALSO WE DONT HAVE TO ENVY ON ANY OTHER LANGUAGE ,THE VICEVERSA IS TRUE ACTUALLY.