UNIQUE Language TAMIL. How?

[sarna_blr]

Sudhama sir

but

<<< It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language. >>>

am more keenly interested to know the reason behind your strong " should not " ???

[Sudhaama]

Sudhama sir

but

<<< It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language. >>>

am more keenly interested to know the reason behind your strong " should not " ???

Because... similar to French, Sanskrit and other indian Languages... there are Standard pronunciations stipulated in Tamil too...

..which should not be violated... nor pronounced different.

..unless it is the imported word from other Languages.

Rather, the imported words from other Languages, especially in cases of Proper-Nowns... have to be pronounced the same as of the Language of Origin.

For example...

The Word JESUS-CHRIST.. the Hebrew word... is pronounced as YESU KRISTH as per its Standard pronunciation..

..as also conforming to the same pronunciation as was the Great Prophet JESUS CHRIST was addressed too... as per the Holy Bible

Accordingly all the world-languages pronounce that word as per its ORIGINAL LANGUAGE STANDARD... as YESU KRISTH only.

Whereas ONLY IN ENGLISH... it is pronounced as JEESUS KRISTE / GEESUS KRYSTE.!

Similarly the French Word PARIS... is pronounced in French as PAARI..

..as per its Stipulated pronunciation of the Language of ORIGIN.

Whereas the Britishers pronounce that word PARIS... as per their own ENGLISHISED PRONUNCIATION... as PAERIS.!

..Can it be acceptable to the French people on PARIS.?

..Nor on the word JESUS CHRIST... by Israelis..?
.

[sar]

HA series in CHAHADHI... VAHU.... PAHAI... KANNAHI...

.

பகை or பஹை ????

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????

I reiterate... the word "KANNAKI" .. is pronounced as "KANHNHAHI".. only.

Yes. According to Tamil-Grammar... there are NO TWO or more Sorts of pronunciations..

..like English.

For example the Word "LABORATORY"... is pronounced in FIVE different ways by the English people themselves...

..which is permissible for them in English

..for which sort of confusion Tamil Language... does not permit.

So to say

பகை or பஹை ????... "பஹை" is ONLY CORRECT.

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????... கண்ணஹி is ONLY CORRECT.

KANHNHAHI... is the only Standard pronuciation... since so caused by the location of the relevant Consonant Letter...

..in this case... the letter "KA'

Similarly MURUHAN (Not MURUKAN... Nor MURUGAN.).. based on the location of "KA".. is only correct.

It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language.

Pronouncing பகை as பஹை or கண்ணகி as கண்ணஹி is like non standard corrupted usage... I suppose.

இது பேச்சு வழக்கில் மருவிய ஒலி அமைப்பே தவிர..... மற்றபடி 'ஹ' என்னும் ஒலி செந்தமிழ் இலக்கணத்தில் வரும் வல்லினமும் அன்று இடையினமும் அன்று என்று தான் நினைக்கத் தோன்றுகிறது;

I had this doubt for a while since few years ago.. but... if you listen to the standard tamil songs sung by professional singers or in standard speaches you wont get that sounded as 'h'.
For example if you had a closer hear at vinayagar agaval sung by seerkazhi govindarajan it would be most likely sounded as 'vezha mugamum' and 'thigazholhi Maarbum'. Ofcourse there are certain exceptions- does he exhibit the same pronounciation every instance is a question.

Or even if you listen to the song in film kadhalan as well..., it would be pronounced as 'kanhnhagi silai than ingunhdu'.. rather than 'kanhnhahi' which is just a evidence for people do consider the fact that 'g' is standard phonetical sound than 'h' in Tamil.

[Sudhaama]

HA series in CHAHADHI... VAHU.... PAHAI... KANNAHI...

.

பகை or பஹை ????

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????

I reiterate... the word "KANNAKI" .. is pronounced as "KANHNHAHI".. only.

Yes. According to Tamil-Grammar... there are NO TWO or more Sorts of pronunciations..

..like English.

For example the Word "LABORATORY"... is pronounced in FIVE different ways by the English people themselves...

..which is permissible for them in English

..for which sort of confusion Tamil Language... does not permit.

So to say

பகை or பஹை ????... "பஹை" is ONLY CORRECT.

கண்ணகி or கண்ணஹி ????... கண்ணஹி is ONLY CORRECT.

KANHNHAHI... is the only Standard pronuciation... since so caused by the location of the relevant Consonant Letter...

..in this case... the letter "KA'

Similarly MURUHAN (Not MURUKAN... Nor MURUGAN.).. based on the location of "KA".. is only correct.

It cannot be and should not be pronounced different...

...as per UNIQUE Tamil language.

Pronouncing பகை as பஹை or கண்ணகி as கண்ணஹி is like non standard corrupted usage... I suppose.

இது பேச்சு வழக்கில் மருவிய ஒலி அமைப்பே தவிர..... மற்றபடி 'ஹ' என்னும் ஒலி செந்தமிழ் இலக்கணத்தில் வரும் வல்லினமும் அன்று இடையினமும் அன்று என்று தான் நினைக்கத் தோன்றுகிறது;

I had this doubt for a while since few years ago.. but... if you listen to the standard tamil songs sung by professional singers or in standard speaches you wont get that sounded as 'h'.
For example if you had a closer hear at vinayagar agaval sung by seerkazhi govindarajan it would be most likely sounded as 'vezha mugamum' and 'thigazholhi Maarbum'. Ofcourse there are certain exceptions- does he exhibit the same pronounciation every instance is a question.

Or even if you listen to the song in film kadhalan as well..., it would be pronounced as 'kanhnhagi silai than ingunhdu'.. rather than 'kanhnhahi' which is just a evidence for people do consider the fact that 'g' is standard phonetical sound than 'h' in Tamil.

Thanks for giving me a BETTER OPPORTUNITY... for INDEPTH Discussion.

Whatever I am writing here... are NOT MY OWN Opinions.. NOR INDIVIDUAL PERCEPTIONS... NOR SURMISE...

..But based on the Great Linguistic Scholars... analytical replies to the DENIGRATIVE CRITICISMS from the various Scholars of other Indian Languages...

..like Telugu, Kannada, Hindi, Marathi...

..who used to mock at theTamil Language... as just a TRIBAL LANGUAGE...

..UNFIT to stand at par with other Indian Languages...

...UNWORTHY to be categorised as the CLASSICAL LANGUAGE...

..because Tamil does not have any difference or varieties of Phonetics.... Unlike all other Indian Languages...

..rather Tamil Language is JUST A NOISE....

..mainly because there is NO PHONETIC DIFFERENCES between KA, GA... CHA, JA... TA, DA... PA, BA... and so on.

Only on such a MOCKERY sense as NOISE.. even now-a-days some Telugu people used to call Tamil... as ARAVAM... meaning NOISE.

And one more Argument that all the Indian Languages have originated from Sanskrit... including Tamil...

..which argument too has been refuted by several Tamil Scholars especially by Dr Suneethi Kumar Chatterji... in his book on DRAVIDIAN LANGUAGES...

..further ascertained by Dr. Hart, the American Scholar on Tamil.

On these points, I have already elaborated in detail... under earlier pages here.... REPEATEDLY right from my start on this Article in the FIRST PAGE itself.

Further if anybody needs more clarifications, I am prepared to furnish here.

Rajaji has analytically established this point in his book on this aspect.... based on several Tamil scholars findings.

Now on the point of "ஹ" (HA) sound on the Letter "க" (KA) in Tamil...

..how different individuals pronounce in their own way... is not our cosideration...

...but only on how it has been standardised.

As already analysed... every consonant letter has different Phonetics, depending on its location..

For example... the Tamil word... written as.... "கங்ககம்" (KANKAKAM)... with one and the same letter... "க" (KA) used thrice...

...has to be pronounced as.... "கங்கஹம்" (KANGAHAM).

The Word... "முருகன்" (MURUHAN)... is purely a Tamil word... must be pronounced according to Tamil phonetic standards...

...must be pronounced as... "முருஹன்" (MURUHAN) only... NOT as MURUGAN... nor MURUKAN.

How.?

Please observe how that word is pronounced by Tamil people

Does anybody call MURUGA... or MURUKA.?

The words... ஆகையால் AAHAIYAAL... ஆகா AAHA... ஆகியன AAHIYANA... ஆகட்டும் AAHATTUM... போகிறான் POAHIRAAN....

...வருகிறது VARUHIRADHU.... தகும் THAHUM... பகுதி PAHUDHI... சகதி CHAHADHI... மகிமை MAHIMAI.... மிகவும் MIHAVUM....

... how "க" (KA) CONSONANT is pronounced as "ஹ"...

... being a THUMB-RULE standard....
.
...similar to any popular Languages like French, German, Sanskrit etc....

...where there exist SPECIFIC NORMS and STANDARD of pronunciations. and Phonetics...
.
.

[sar]

Moderator's Note: Please observe some decorum when posting!

- நிச்சயம் கடைப்பிடிக்கிறேன்... தவறுகளுக்கு வருந்துகிறேன்.. மன்னிக்கவும் - sar

Dear Thiru Sudhamaa,

I am sorry to find that Your explanation regarding phonetics is not convincing enough to me!!!

Because my point of view-argument is if it is pronounced as 'ha' then it cannot be classed in 'vallinam' which is transliterated as ' hard pronouncing constonants' which 'ha' is not, but ka or ga is.

but rather sort of aytha ezhuthu....

-deleted by moderator-

if certain phonetical sounds are omitted (which are in sanskrit) then they are omitted for a strongly valid reason... as I suppose... Need to just ignore the denigrative comments... And not to justify any linguistics by reasoning out validity behind those comments... thats all I would suggest... now.

-deleted by moderator-
கோப-தாபத்தில் எழுதியதை நீக்கியதற்கு நன்றி...

Also I happen to come across this article about this fairly well known historical incident which happened few hundred years ago:

You might know and heard well about Holy saint Kanchi Sankaracharya - founder of the Sankara Matam and Holy Saint Vallalar - founder of Sanmaargha Sangham. Both are revered high as Holy saints and Bhakthimaans. But they have difference in opinion about relegious philosophies they follow and the languages;

When once there was an argument between these two great saints it seems they had a difference in opinion about superiority of language and its spritual purpose to the mankind - whether it is Tamil or Sanskrit (both are now considered as classical languages - Divine as per learned scholors/thinkers point of view.. like some other world languages... there is nodoubt in that but...); It seems when Kanchi Sarkaracharya told that it is Sanskrit that is most superior and it is the mother of all languages, but the other Saint Vallalar replied that 'Oh! Well, in that case Tamil would be the Father of all the Languages which could be equally purposeful to man kind' atleast .

Hence I beleive it is not wise to conclude any linguistics superiority without proper reasoning and knowledge, when great philosophical saints themselves could not come for a agreeable conclusion...

When do the people have the maturity to acknowledge and appreciate the real merit of any thing that they encounter in their life which is not theirs, then only there is possiblity of better quality of (or atleast improvement of) the life of the society; - this is my opinion... at least.

[Sudhaama]

.

Difference between... AHDHU... and AKDHU.

Dear "sar".

The Aayudha Ezhuthu... ·... has only one pronunciation as "ஹ்"... "IH" ...

..and it can never be the first or the last letter of any word... but only the INTERMEDIATE Letter...

..to shape words as அ·து (AHDU)... ப·றுளி (PAHRHULHI)... எ·கு (EHKU)... அ·கம் (AHKAM) etc.

The letter க ("KA")... if happens to get located in the middle OF ANY WORD as க் ("IK")... followed by க ("KA")..

...then it gets the Phonetics as க் ("IK") Only... and NOT ஹ் ("IH").

...such as தக்கது (THAKKADHU)... பக்கம் (PAKKAM)... வக்கு (VAKKU)... திக்கு (THIKKU)... சக்கரம் (CHAKKARAM)... மிக்க (MIKKA).... எக்கி (EKKI)... பாக்கி PAAKKI... and so on... without exception.

That is the Grammatical standard in Tamil.

Regarding the varied pronunciations of Consonant letters in Tamil..

... please go through the earlier pages... especially the Opening pages...

..where I have answered all these questions on how and why ...

....ONE AND THE SAME CONSONANT LETTER IN TAMIL... creates different pronunciations in TAMIL ONLY...

..Unlike any other Indian Languages.

Rather upto some extent.. Tamil is similar to English... Yes upto some extent only...

..wherein to0, there is no standard pronunciation or phonetics for the letters...

...UNLIKE Most of the World Languages... and other Indian LANGUAGES...

..Where only one standard pronunciation is available for EACH LETTER... at the ORIGIN STATUS itself.

In all the Languages in general... the Letters form the Syllables...

..and ONLY THE SYLLABLES have the phonetics.

English has no standard pronunciation... unlike other European Languages, especially French and German...

For example the same word with the same spelling... HAND in English is pronounced as HUND... in German...

..and LAND as LUND... SAND as SUND.... RAND as RUND and so on...

...Based on UNIFORM BASIS... Unlike English... where we cannot answer why... BUT and PUT... are pronounced different

Whereas in Tamil...there is a uniform pronunciation basis as a standard... for all such order of consonant clubbed with vowels...

..depending on the ORDER and SEQUENCE OF LETTERS.

Tamil phonetics start from its Syllables... but NOT FROM LETTERS...

..Unlike the cases of other Indian Languages... where the Phonetics start from the Letters too.

Rather for example... in other Indian Languages... the Letter KA can be pronounced as KA only... wherever it may be placed.

Whereas in case of Tamil... I reiterate that one and the same consonant letter க ("KA") has THREE DIFFERENT PHONETICS... as KA, GA and HA....

CHA... as ச (CHA), ஜ (JA), ஸ (SA).

PA... as PA, BA.

..depending on the respective Consonant's letters location...

...unlike Sanskrit and other Indian Languages.

So we find it difficult to transliterate other Languages into Tamil Script... of RADICALLY DIFFERENT PHONETICS Basis.

..GANDHI - KANTHI... GANAM- KANAM...

..while we have NO CONFUSION in pronouncing any ORIGINAL Tamil word...

...conforming to Tamil's UNIFORM BASIS OF PHONETIC-CODE.
.
.

[sar]

தனியொலி சார்புஒலி பற்றிய தங்கள் கருத்தை ஏற்றுக்கொண்டாலும் முரு'ஹ'ன் என்று கூறியதில் மட்டும் வேறுபடுகிறேன்.. முழுமையாக ஏற்றுக்கொள்ள இயலவில்லை...

ka-ga என்று வருவது வரைக்கும் ok... 'ha' என்றுமயா வரும்? well... according to செந்தமிழ்... I differ in this point of view...

[Sarna]

தின்று ? திண்று ?

எது சரி ?

மருபடியும் ? மறுபடியும் ?

எது சரி ?

[Sudhaama]

தின்று ? திண்று ?

எது சரி ?

மருபடியும் ? மறுபடியும் ?

எது சரி ?

தின்று ... மறுபடியும் : சரி

.

[bis_mala]

To forumers who like to believe that Arabs introduced sugar, sugar cane to the Indians:

The Arab role was to diffuse several crops from India to the Middle East, and sugar cane and bananas were among them. Sugar cane is a plant of humid tropical climate. The diffusion is dated to after c 636-44 CE. The Arabs became active in such activities during the Pax Islamica. Read JD Holloway and also Watson (1983).

On sugar cane during Sangam period, references are given in the thread: Tamil Word Development.

Words for future discussion: South East Asian words for sweet, sugarcane, sugarcane plantation etc.,

tamis. - sweet.

tubuhan:: (noun) (rw. TUBO) sugarcane plantation or field
tubo1:: (noun) sugarcane

gula - sugar

manis - sweet

gula melaka!!

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http://sivamaalaa.blogspot.com/

on cakkarai:-

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewt...850508#1850508