View Poll Results: TAMIL or SANSKRIT which is the most ancient language ?

Voters
9. You may not vote on this poll
  • TAMIL

    8 88.89%
  • SANSKRIT

    1 11.11%
Page 14 of 18 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 ... LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 179

Thread: TAMIL is much ELDER to SANSKRIT !

  1. #131
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    jeddah, saudi Arabia
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like
    Jews, I mentioned alongside others, Greeks etc.. Why do you you zoom in on 'Jews'... Go and find it yourself in the Sangam Literature. It is not relavant on its own.

    Panini, on the other hand, failed to mention 'Sanskrit' or 'Samskrut' or any other names refering to Sanskrit in his work. Sanskrit did not exist then, during his time. That's a clear proof enough.
    Foreigners are specified in sankam literature as Yavanars. It includes all of them as Greek,Asia Minor and present Balistere and Israel.

    I have already proved quoting eminent scholars that Paniniyam(Paanar) is not for Sanskrit and not in Sanskrit. We must here remember that along with paly & Prakrit 'Paichachi' (Tamil) which was the base for Paly and Prakrit also prevailed all over India.This is Scholar's view. North Indian languages shrinked & phonetically changed into new languages from tamil and to differentiate this and geographical ruling, Tamil land after First "KADALKOL" specified with new horizons during Tholkappiar time.

    f.s.gandhi
    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many
     

  3. #132
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    jeddah, saudi Arabia
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like
    And please note, my boy Solomon. The 'Vadasol, thisaisol, thirisol, etc" does not refer to sanskrit at all.
    Dear Thiru Idiappam,

    I have already talked about “Vadasol” in Tholkappiam that North phonetical alphabet will be removed if at all north alphabet comes into being in tamil.

    As you say we have to repeat so many times the same discussions

    The north word's root will be with tamil since tamil prevailed all over India as natural people’s language and eldest language. Tholkappiar talks about Phonetically changed words.

    Tholkappiar says,

    “Vadasol Kilavi Vadavezhuththu Oree
    Ezhuththodu Punarntha Sol Aakumme” - Sollathikaaram – Echchaviyal – 5

    In this Kilavi means word 'Oree' means ‘Neekkam” –to be neglected. Remaining will be taken for mingling with tamil. Here Thokaappiar wants to preserve tamil phonetics. He talks about ‘Vadasol’ as word and no significance of and Vada Language. Earlier I have quoted from Dr.Rajwade that tamil has entirely purified its traditional writing and if at all mingling of some words into tamil they are Prakrit form and not Sanskrit form.

    Now we look into Thisaichol and Thirisol and they are tamil words withing tamil land and not foreign words.

    “Oru Porul kuriththa Veru Chol Aakiyum
    Veru porul Kuriththa Oru Chol Aakiyum
    Eru Paatru Enba THIRISOL KILAVI” -Chollathikaram – Echaviyal – 3

    Certainly this refers to only tamil words.

    “Chentamil Cherntha Panniru Nilaththum
    Tham Kurippinave THISAI CHCHOL Kilavi” -Choll – Echaviyal – 4

    Certainly this refers to only twelve lands of tamil words.

    f.s.gandhi

    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  4. #133
    Member Junior Hubber
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Singapore /Malaysia
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like

    right direction

    Dear FSGV

    As to the date of Tolkaappiyam, you are proceeding in the right direction and your arguments are sound..

    Please keep it up.
    APMASILA

  5. #134
    Senior Member Regular Hubber
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    100
    Post Thanks / Like

    VADAMOZHI AND TAMIL

    Friends,

    I Thank Mr.fsg for bringing all references to Brahmins - Parpanarkal in Tholkappiyam, and all of them certainly refers to BRAHMINS ONLY.

    If you want to live in illusion of dating of THOLKAPPIYAM- Kadalkol. Just few posting Back you had such a high regard for Kamil Zveleble and he dates Tholkappoyam to 200-100BCE, Now if you are insisting he is wrong then I can't help it. A Scholar is one who keeps to the truths of his Research and NOt to spread his Superstitions, and I DO not understand on your Pinning on Anchor Bible Encyclopedia for your Superstitions, and I Quote from a Biblic Scholar on Bible today:he truth is their claims are by frauds and actual position of Bible research is as follows:
    "The weight and extent of the strain under which Christian Belief has come can be indicated by listing aspects of Traditional Theology which are, which are in the opinion of many Theologians today [including myself], either untenable ot open to Serious Doubts.
    1. There are divinely revealed truths [such as the doctrines of Trinity or the two natures of Christ]
    2.God Created the physical Universe out of nothing “n’ years ago.
    3. Man was created originally brought into the existence as a finitely perfect being, but rebelled against God, and the human condition has ever since been that of creatures who have fallen from grace.
    4. Christ come to rescue man from his fallen plight, buying man’ [or some men’s] restoration to grace by his death on the cross.
    5. Jesus was born of a Virgin mother, without human Patenity.
    6. He performed miracles in which the regularities of the natural order were suspended by Divine Power.
    7. His Dead Body rose from the Grave and Returned to Earthy Life.
    8. All men must respond to God through Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
    9. AT Death a person’s relationship to God is irrevocably fixed.
    10. There are two human destinies, traditionally referred to under the symbols of Heaven and Hell.
    “God and the Universe of Faiths”- John Hick, Formerly Professor of Philosophy of Religion, Claremont Graduate School. California Published by Macmillan 1998.
    and if you want further you can download and read

    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
    http://hamsa.org/
    http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.
    htmhttp://www.earlychristianwritings.com/schweitzer/
    • To Justin Against Christianity (600 Page PDF File
    ) from tjac.pdf from www.tojustin.com

    So meaninglessly rejecting all Scholarly Opinoion is Childish.

    And Nobody doubts the Antiquity of Tamil, but for that you need not meaninglessly backdate Tholkappiyam and make Tamils being Laughed at by the world.

    FSG views are absolutely Anti-truths, spoiled by anti-Hinduism- antibrahmin, myths spread by Missionaries, which I HAVE posted a lot earlier and I QUOTE proessor Hart again for viewers:

    From a posting by Professor George Hart in 1997 on Tamil, Brahmins, & Sanskrit: " ....here are some facts:

    1. Brahmins are only 2% of the population, yet they have contributed much more to Tamil literature than their number would indicate.

    2. The purest (i.e. least Sanskritized) Tamil was written by the medieval Saiva Brahmin commentators on Tamil. For example, Parimelazakar translates the yoga asanas into Tamil, and the only way anyone can figure out what he is saying is to read the sub commentary (by Gopalakrishnamachari), who gives the original Sanskrit terms. You will find no Tamil any purer than that of Naccinarkkiniyar et al.

    3. Brahmins have contributed to Tamil from Sangam times. Kapilar is one of the greatest Tamil poets.

    4. Yes, of course Brahmins have had their own political agenda to push. They have been responsible for many things that I feel are entirely unconscionable. But is this any different from the other high castes? I have heard many many stories of high non-Brahmin castes killing and abusing Dalits. You can't blame the Brahmins for this. In fact, the most pernicious example of the caste system was in the Tamil areas of Sri Lanka, where there are virtually no Brahmins and never have been.

    5. You cannot blame the Brahmins for Sanskritizing Tamil. Tenkalai Aiyengars often use Tamil words where most non-Brahmins use Sanskrit ones. The Sanskrtization of Tamil is a very old process and cannot be understood except in an all-South-Asian context. The Bengali used in Bangladesh is highly Sanskritized, and the Muslims are quite proud of their language. The fact is, Sanskrit was the lingua franca of South Asia for intellectual purposes, much as Latin was in Europe. Buddhists used it, Jains used it, much as Spinoza, a Jew, wrote his philosophical treatises in Latin. The Tamil of Ramalinga Swamigal, a non-Brahmin, is highly Sanskritized.

    6. Sanskrit and Tamil are part of the same intellectual and literary tradition. The fact is, Sanskrit literature owes an enormous amount to Dravidian -- much of its syntax, its literary conventions, vocabulary. When we come to the great kavya of Sanskrit (e.g. Kalidasa), it is definitely part of the same stream as Tamil literature, just as French, English and German belong to a Western European literary tradition. This is even true of Sangam literature -- it is clearly of the same cultural tradition as, say, the Sanskrit Mahabharata.

    7. Tamil is richer because it has many styles. It is the only Indian language that has a pure, unsanskritized style (well, there is a pure Telugu, called accu telugu, which was cultivated mainly by Brahmins). This style is very rich, no doubt. But Tamil has innumerable other styles -- many dialects, a highly Sanskritized style, a style with many English words, etc. etc. All of these add to the richness and expressiveness of the language -- why impoverish the language by removing its resources?

    8. ... a personal note from an outsider. Tamil culture has not suffered because of one group. It has suffered because of the caste system and because of its treatment of women... Let's promote inter caste marriage, let's get rid of dowry and give women independence and self-respect, and above all, let's avoid a victimization complex which only plays into the hands of those who have a vested interest in continuing the inequities that exist in Tamilnad. If every Brahmin were to disappear from Tamilnad, the Dalits and others who are exploited would benefited not one iota.

    9. Please note that I am not pro- or anti-Brahmin. I am acutely aware of the negative role Sanskrit has played in the development of the Indian regional languages. Indeed, A. K. Ramanujan, a Brahmin, once told me that the worst things that ever happened to South India were Sanskrit and English. A slavish devotion to Sanskrit has had a negative effect on Tamil and, even more so, on other South Indian languages. But we cannot change the past. There is nothing inherently good or bad in a word, whatever its origin, so long as it has been adopted for general use in a language. What is bad -- and what I deplore -- is the mindless assumption that Sanskrit is somehow superior. It is not. Indeed, Sanskrit is a very limited language, because it has no spoken substratum. But where Sanskrit words have come into common usage in South India, they have acquired broad connotative powers that enhance the spoken languages that have borrowed them (much like Latin and French words in English). It is insulting to Tamil to claim that the language cannot borrow words without being corrupted. Tamil has a long, powerful tradition, and it is a very rich language. Judicious borrowing can only enhance, not spoil it..."
    And on Paarpanar- I QUOTE MARAIMALAI ADIGAL : After referring to various passages from Silapathikaram- Like- "Mamuth Parppan Maraivazhi Kattidath Theevalncheivathu ....
    he concludes Eneve Pandaith Tamilar than thirumanach sadankir perumpakuthi Silapathikara kalathum atharkupin inraiya nal varaium Parppanere Asiriyarayirundu nadathn Thiumana sadankil pukunthu atharku Sirappalithu varuthal Iuravindri thunia padum enka - Page 203 Tamilar Matham

    and Fsg SAYS no role for Brahmins and Vedas for Kalaviyal and Friends I QUOTE- from Irayanar:
    Anbain IINTHINAI KALAVENAPADUM
    Anthanar arumarai manral ettaul
    Kantharva vazakkam enmanar Pulavar-

    Friends my interpretation of Tholkappiyam Marai as Vedam is Proved, beyond doubt, but still I Confirm for friends
    TholKappiyam Commentators- Ilampuranar and Nachinarkiniyar both have referred "Iyer Yathanar Karamnam enba" as Vedhic Ritual, so please do not be fooling around people.

    FSG, If you are going to reject all Research truths and keep lying All Tamils would be laughed at.

    Truth is analysed and accepted long back, and now you want to change, by keep on bloughing. Literature do not support your Lies.

    MosesMohammedSolomon

  6. #135
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    jeddah, saudi Arabia
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like
    Anchor Bible Dictionary & Britanica Encyclopedia are accepted versions of History timeline in record form. All renowned world historiens register their inventions of history timeline in these two records. I have earlier quoted this for correct dating. Any person having scientific temperament without relying on religious aspects would understand this.

    Tamil literatures and its secular nature reveal all historical happenings close to reality and this has been proved with latest archeological findings like ‘Puhar diving”. ‘Kadal kol’ has been accurately recorded in tamil literature differentiating three sankams as I earlier told in this thread and “Kumari Kandam” thread.

    ‘Kadalkol’ is the main cause for the civilizational transformation occurred in the world. The effect of ‘Kadalkol’ prevailed all over Arabian sea countries. Main Three ‘kadalkols’ have been recorded accurately as floods in Arabian sea countries.This is further strenghthened with the archeological findings and the timeline is recorded in Anchor Bible dictionary accepted by world historiens and all timelines to date other new findings are refered only by this dictionary and Britannica Encyclopedia.Hence nothing wrong in fixing the timeline based on this.

    I have so many times told that yesteryear scholars views should be taken as the base for new inventions and they are not concluded one always and any person with scientific temperament would reinvent the old conclusions with new archeological findings and this is the world order.

    I have earlier quoted T.R.Shesha Iyengar and Panmozhippulavar Ka.Appaththuraiyar stating the following in this thread:

    During 100 CE Cheras overruled the whole India and Sankam literature of these times shows this. Puranaanuru defines cheras area till north Himalayan. And due to this south organized tamil culture’s influence (Life as Aram,Porul,Inbam-Language as Eyal,Esai,Nadakam), North Indian literature was organized with new Artificial Sanskrit with ‘Chandal’ as base. North Indian ‘hothaas’ (Ariyas) came to south first to ‘Cheras’ land. In Kanchipuram with Kashmir,Kasi & Thiruvananthapuram pandits, Vedhas were written. Vedha Viyasar is a Dravidian and his birth is defined in “Neelakesi” one of the tamil poetry. Readers can go through the follwing link for “Viyasar’s birth”.

    http://www.jainworld.com/JWTamil/jainworld/neelakesi/urai.asp?num-9

    There after Pallavas,Guptas and Later Cholas followed Vedhic Traditions.

    Most of the Explanatory notes of Sankam Anthology were written during 9th and 10th Century Scholars and this includes Nachinaarkiniyar & Parimezhalagar. The notes written by sankam period is not available. And since Nachinaarkiniyar and Paremezhalagar supported Vedhic tradition prevailed during that time The scholars like Maraimalai Adigal & Paavanar thought they were Brahmins. This is not true. Adigal & Paavanar both followed ‘Aryan Invasion theory’ and Dravidian movement ideology to derive whoever talks Vedhic tradition are Ariyans and Brahmins and considered all of them in one fold. They did not have the chance of present day findings (1980s) that “Paichachi”(tamil) prevailed all over India before paly & prakrit. We cannot blame them for this. As I earlier have stated we should take their views as base for our further findings.

    The topic is somewhat deviated only because of Solomon. However we have to analyse history based on truths. For that I am writing the following.

    Anthanar & Paarpaan(Iyer after rituals formed) are different entities as per Tholkappiam and subsequent Sankam Anthology.

    Anthanar :

    I have earlier stated in this thread about “Aanam Chantra periyor” whose occultisc studies are essential for “Maraimozhi” and they are different entity than “Paarpaan”.

    Noolae Karakam MUKKOLE Manaye
    Ayumkalai ANTHANARkuriya” – Thokappiam – Marapiyal – 71.

    “ANTHANAR Noorkum Araththirkum Aathiyai
    Nintrathu MANNAVAN KOLE” - Kural 543

    In this we find Anthanar were formulaters of ‘Aram’ after analyzing the happenings in a nation. Depending upon king’s policies they do research(Ayithal) and formulate new “Aram”.

    “ANTHANAR Enbore ARAVORE Matrellam
    Chenthanmai Poodu Ozukalan” - kural

    Am+Thanar means “Aruludaiyor” & Chenthanmai means “Anbu”.

    “ARAM AZHI ANTHANAR thaal Cherinthar kellal
    Piravazhi Neenthal Arithu” - Kural. Valluvar gives “ur” vikuthi to specify respectfulness.

    Here Azhi means sea. Valluvar states here also Aram is belonging to Anthanar.

    “NiraiMozhi Maanthar Aanayil Kilantha
    Maraimozhi thane Manthiram Enba” - Tholkappiam . In this ‘Aanayil kilantha Maraimozhi” exactly specifies the ‘Aanam charntha Periyor / Chantore who are different from Anthanar.

    Valluvar talks about them as in 'Neethar Perumai'

    “Niraimozhi Maanthar Perumai Nilaththu
    Maraimozhi Katti Vidum” -


    In Athikaaram “Neeththaar Perumai” – Valluvar talks about Chantore as adapters of Thuravu and Anthanar as ‘Aravore’. Both are different in the way of research that Chantrore are doing one’s inside (Aanam-Akaththumam-Aakamam) and Anthanar are doing one’s outside world.

    The definition of “Nool” is given in Tholkappiam as

    “Pattu(1) urai(2) noolae Vaimozhi(3) Pisiyae(4)
    Ankatham(5) Muthusol(6) Avezh nilaththum- Cheyyuliyal – 75

    In Cheyyuliyal – 158 He conforms this.

    Avaithaam,

    “Noolinaana(1) uraiyinaana(2)
    Nediyodu Punarntha Pisiyinana(3)
    Ethu nuthaliya Muthumozhyinana(4)
    Maraimozhi kilantha Manthiraththana(5)
    Kootrukkidai Vaiththa Kuripinaana(6)

    In this Ankatham means ‘Vasaippaatu” & pisi means “Vidukathai” (riddles).Here we find ‘marai’ as ‘manthiram’ one of the “Nool”.

    “Vinaiyin neenki Vilankiya Arivin MUNAIVAN
    Kandathu muthan Noolakum” - In this Tholkappiar talks about other segment “Munaivan” who are expert in Science.


    Here we have to add one more segment of people who are “Aruthozhilore”- Six Thozhil.

    Thivakaram – Nikandu says,

    “Uzhavu(1) Thozhilae(2) Varaivu(3) Vanikam(4)
    Vichchai(5) Chirpam(6) entrith ThirathTHARU(six)
    Thozhilkarpa Nadaiyathu Karuma Poomi.

    In this varaivu is drawing & Vichchai is Viththai & Thozhilae is Nesaviththolizh(Aakupeyar).

    This ‘six Thozhilore’ are specified By Valluvar as,

    “Aapayan kuntrum ARUTHOZHILORE Noolmarappar
    Kaavalan Kaavan Enin”. - In Kodunkomai Athikaram.

    Hence all arts were recorded as the above ‘six types of writing’ in Sankam period the contributor might be either from Chantrore of experts above six occupation and Aravore meant for king’s rule.

    About tamil marais (one of the tamil writing forms) silappathikaaram specifies as follows :

    “VANDAMIZH MARAIYORKU Vanurai Koduththa
    Thindiral Neduvel Cheral Kaan kenak” - 60.

    Here no mention of Sanskrit Vedhas and this also specifies there are some tamil marais. In Moovar Thevaram and Thiruvasakam we see songs of rituals based on “Velvees” including marriages rituals. Earlier there could have been separate ‘Marais’ as ‘Thanippaadal Thokuthi’. This could have been copied by Vedhics

    Now we go into the meaning of “PAARPAN”.

    Tholkappiam specifies ‘Parpaan’ as head of Kalavu & Karpu marriages which was revealed by me in “Thirukkural” thread.

    In Tholkappiam the duties of “paarpaan” is talked in Karpiyal -27. In kalavu and karpu marriage he is the ritual head.

    “Kaamanilai Uraiththal(1) Thernilai Uraiththal(2)
    Kizhavone Kurippinai Eduththuk Kooralum (3)
    Aavodu patta Nimiththam Kooralum (4)
    Selavu uru kilaviyum (5) Selavu Azhunku kilaviyum (6)
    Annavai Piravum (ethaip pontra piravum) PAARPAARKU uriya”.

    From the above we get that to make the hero & heroine mingling each other either in kalavu or in karpu PAARPAAN has to work in the above ways. Later “karanam” (rituals) was made to strengthen this activity.

    “Poiyym Kalavum Thontriya pinnae
    Eyer Yarththa karanam Enba”. –Paarpaan is refered as “Iyer” – Here ‘Un’ vikuthi gets elevated as ‘Ar’ vikuthi to show the respectfulness after ritual formation.

    In kural,

    “Marappinum Oththuk Kolalaakum Paarpaan
    Piruppu Ozhukkam Kuntrak Kedum” -Paarpaan is refered under ‘Ellaraviyal” part which is found fit conforming to Tholkaapiam definition.

    Some of misguiding guys uses “Ooththu”(nedil O) to mean “Othuthal” to solve their purpose. But it is not so. Kuril “O’ should be used. Both words has same root but here means different. Kuril “Oththu’/Oththal means ‘Ontrakkuthal’/ Cherthuvaiththal / making one. Compare the word ‘Oththaasai’.

    Now,

    Paarpan Oththuk kolal marappinum – If Paarpaan forgets his duty of making the hero & heroine joining,
    Aakum – He can do it again. But,
    Ozhukkam Kuntra – If good conduct goes out,
    Pirappu Kedum – anyone’s birth in this world(Pirappu) will go down.

    Paarpaan is refered in Silappathikaram with the same meaning and not Anthanar meaning. “Maamuthu Paarpaan marai Vazhi Kattita” clearly specify this.

    Hence Anthanar & Paarpaan are not same in Sankam period. We should not view with 10th century CE spectacles to interpret the two.We shall look into Nanmarai,Gods & castes later.

    Vedhic Solomons should not only bearing "Epporul ....."Kural in his signature and should follow the meaning of that kural. Otherwise he will become "Mazhiththalum , Neetalum -Vedhic case" specified by Valluvar .


    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  7. #136
    Junior Member Admin HubberNewbie HubberTeam HubberModerator HubberPro Hubber
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Chennai
    Posts
    16
    Post Thanks / Like

    TAMIL AND VADAMOZHI

    Friends,

    F.S.Candhi has left all levels of Dececy to Forge Tirukural and kindly see my postings under Kural.

    Friends, Mr.Candhi- ofcourse repeatedly used Mr.Mathivanan another Great Forger to date his Dubious Tholkappiyam dating. Friends- the verysame authors who wrote Horseplay had called Forger Mathivanan by name- and I AM GIVING THE Link-

    [PDF] The First Harappan Forgery: Indus Inscriptions in the Nineteenth ...
    File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
    Interestingly, the story of the first Indus forgery did not involve Indian ...
    Michael Witzel and Steve Farmer, “Horseplay in Harappa: The Indus Valley ...
    www.safarmer.com/firstforgery.pdf - Similar pages

    Steve Farmer article download page
    3.1-3.4 Additional background materials on the so-called Indus script. 3.1.
    The First Harappan Forgery: Indus Inscriptions in the Nineteenth Century (1 meg ...
    www.safarmer.com/downloads/ - 30k - Cached - Similar pages
    [ More results from www.safarmer.com ]

    [PDF] The Collapse of the Indus-Script Thesis: The Myth of a Literate ...
    File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
    The First Harappan Forgery: Indus Inscriptions in the Nineteenth Century. ...
    Decipherment of the Indus Valley Script. A. Zide and K. Zvelebil, ...
    users.primushost.com/~india/ ejvs/ejvs1102/ejvs1102article
    And Solomon quoted eminent Tamil Historians and also the Methodology of Tholkappiyam as Samanam and cannot be dated earlier than 200-100BCE, as given by KAMIL Zvelebil- whom you regarded as great.

    Friends- Mr.Aravindan gave a link to Tirukural Conference Papers in a separate Thread-

    http://www.thirukkural2005.org/call_for_papers.htm
    and the reply of our master Anti-Truth F.S.Candhi-
    Thank you for the information Mr.Aravindhan. Phd aspirants can participate in that. I am an observer.

    f.s.gandhi
    Friends, I viewed each and every Research article- and None of them Used any of the Scholars refered by F.S.CANDHI- Proving all Dubious and Wishful Speculators. "AIvu Vattak Katturaikal and ITS Predissors Araichy" as quoted by Solomon was used by few, Marai in Sangam and Other Literature are clearly seen by Scholars as Vethams only, and F.S.CAndhi is right He donot need Truths.

    Meeaninglessly manupulating of words and corrupting of Tamil is going to give very bad name to Tamils.

    Solomon - You posting have been based on Concluded Truths by Objective Scholars- Please continue.

    Anchaneya.

  8. #137
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    jeddah, saudi Arabia
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like
    As I have told earlier in this thread Almost all the researchers & historiens of sinthu valley accepted that sinthu valley contains only Dravidian culture (tamil).

    As Idiappam earlier said in this thread some remote sources like Rajaram & B.B.Lal within our country and some foreigners who oppose Indian base in sinthu valley spread infamous stories.

    In the website mentioned by vedhic Ancheneya firstly condemns Rajaram's fraud.

    Dr.Mathivanan has shown clinching evidence of biscript as I told in earlier post ( Tamil Brahmi & Sindhu Valley) which conforms tamil’s presence in sinthu valley. We need not worry about these Vedhic frauds no matter whatever bluffs they try to propogate.

    Dear Ancheneya Nothing is concluded as you claim. All of your dumpings Are stories.

    What I have talked here are proved and we need not have your ungraded certificate for that

    f.s.gandhi

    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  9. #138
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    jeddah, saudi Arabia
    Posts
    399
    Post Thanks / Like
    Dear friends,

    Here I show you other segement "THE POTTERY GRAFFITI" that proves tamil's presence in Sinthu Valley script and this has been accepted universally by Indian and world scholars. We need not worry about Vedhic fraud's false propoganda. B.B.Lal has contributed significant research in this pottery work and we can take that part which also has been universally accepted and not Mr.Lal's Vedhic propoganta.

    'Indus Script in Tamilnadu': Pottery Graffiti

    Dr. S. Gurumurthy retired as Professor of Ancient History and
    Archaeology, University of Madras. His earlier publications include
    Ceramic Traditions in South India upto 300 A.D. He has made a special study of the graffiti on ancient Indian pottery. His book Deciphering the Indus Script was published in 1999.

    Mr.Gurumurthy begins by calling for a re-examination of the wide gap in the archaeological record between the Neolithic and Iron Age cultures in Tamilnadu. He seeks to bridge the gap between the two periods, partly by pushing back the commencement of the Iron Age in South India and partly by positing the existence of a 'Pre-Iron Age culture' in Tamilnadu, claimed to be coequal with the last phase of the Chalcolithic cultures of Central India towards the close of the second millennium B.C. The occurrence of iron at an earlier date (ca.1000 B.C.) in South India and the recent discoveries of rock paintings and engravings from caves in Tamilnadu are cited as new evidence in this regard.

    According to Gurumurthy, the Iron Age population of Tamilnadu was 'mixed', with a large proportion of the descendants of the Neolithic people who are described by him as the 'carriers of the Indus culture and script'.

    The Iron Age which originated in South India was Dravidian and, in its last phase, coincided with the Sangam Age, characterised by literary activity,the use of currency and foreign trading contacts.

    Mr.Gurumurthy has made an extensive collection of over three thousand pottery graffiti from more than a hundred sites in India. He traces the evolution of pottery graffiti from the Neolithic to the Harappan and from the latter to the Chalcolithic and Iron Age cultures.

    His study of the pottery graffiti from Tamilnadu has revealed that many of them have been incised on specially selected potsherds, cut and ground to the required size. He conformed that these are records of 'economic transactions' kept by the owners 'for posterity or remembrance'. They show that in this period, pottery served as the principal medium for writing.

    Mr.Gurumurthy employs the term 'ligatured graffiti' in a
    sense to refer to groups of graffiti comprising 'more than one symbol'. He also describes the 'ligatured' graffiti found in Tamilnadu as 'inscribed sherds in the Indus script'. He clarifies that they are contemporaneous with the Indus inscriptions at the same time they are survivals in a later period. He claims that their presence in Tamilnadu has extended the southern boundary of the Indus script from Daimabad (in the Godavari basin)to the 'lower Kaveri basin'.

    Mr.Gurumuthy's decipherment of the graffiti proceeds in three stages.
    In the first stage, he identifies selected graffiti as 'signs of the Indus script' based on similarity with the shapes of the signs.

    Next, he assigns phonetic values in Tamil to the graffiti based on the perceived pictorial forms. Finally he reads the graffiti with more than one symbol as texts written in the Indus script.

    Based on his readings, Gurumurthy identifies the language of the 'inscribed sherds in the Indus script' found in
    Tamilnadu as TAMIL.

    Mr.Gurumurthy's procedures for decipherment are generally the same as those of most other would-be decipherers.

    Here are a few examples of his identification of the graffiti. A graffito looking like K is identified as 'calling while walking'; a zigzag line denotes 'running'; variously shaped linear curves are identified as 'eye, nose, forehead or lips'; the most
    frequent JAR sign is identified as the 'head of a human body', and so on.

    Mr.Gurumurthy's Tamil readings include Tamil words from the 'Pre-Sangam', Sangam and medieval periods. For example, Tamil aintu for PDr *cay-ntu 'five'.

    Mr.Gurumurthy identifies some of the graffiti symbols with Brahmi
    letters. In practice, he compares pottery graffiti from the earlier levels with the Indus script and from the later levels with the Brahmi script.

    According to him, the Brahmi script is not directly derived from the Indus, but through the pottery graffiti of later times.

    Mr.Gurumurthy's documentation of the pottery graffiti from South India and especially Tamilnadu is the most exhaustive published so far and would no doubt provide important source material for further studies in the field.

    As B.B. Lal demonstrated in his seminal paper (1960) with the suggestive title 'From the Megalithic to the Harappa: tracing back the graffiti on pottery', there is a genetic relationship at a deeper level between the signs of the Indus script and the megalithic graffiti. According to Lal, "eighty-nine percent of the megalithic symbols go back to the chalcolithic-Harappan times.
    Conversely, eighty-five percent of the Harappan-chalcolithic symbols continue down to the megalithic times".

    Recent excavations at 'Kodumanal' have revealed a remarkable association of specific symbols with particular megalithic grave complexes. There can hardly be any doubt that the graffiti are meaningful.

    Pottery graffiti are found from Late Neolithic and Pre-Harappan times up to the end of the Megalithic Period. They are also spread across the subcontinent from the North-West to the Peninsula and beyond to SriLanka. It is most likely that throughout this vast expanse of time and space, the graffiti were tied up with one language and they well have the same significance. An important theoretical consideration is that writing is always an adjunct of urban civilisation and is born out of economic necessities of account-keeping and trading.

    In this way the first urban civilization existed in South India particularly in tamilNadu.

    Tamil's Antiquity and its culture Antiquity once again has been proved.

    f.s.gandhi
    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  10. #139
    Senior Member Regular Hubber
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    100
    Post Thanks / Like

    VADAMOZHI AND TAMIL

    Friends,

    We have to research detail with respective Literature and Research of Archealogy and other details in an Unbiased way.

    Iravatham Mahadevan is quoted by FSG, and he is clear that Indus Valley Pictorial Scripts are not TAMIL,but could be Proto Dravidian or some Dead Language, and his interview can be got from following link
    www.harappa.com/script/mahadevantext.html - 71k

    Friends, Looking things blindly from Only one angle and missing the Truth has been the way of Thani-Tamil Schloars, as I Have shown onTamilar Marriage- where right from Tholkappiyar days-Vedic Marriage was in Practice.
    Please read Tirukuralzh post to see FSG'S trick of falsehood interpretations.

    Friends,

    Sangam Literature and Tirukural are full supporters of Vethams and I intend to put my views shortly.

    MosesMohammedSolomon

  11. #140
    Senior Member Regular Hubber
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    100
    Post Thanks / Like

    Vadamozhi and Tamil

    Friends,

    Most of us on our Over Enthusiasm leave the truths of research or the abilities of Various Universities and Our Ancestors.

    FSG and others quote various authors to Couch, their Superstitions and One such Mentioned author was -Panmozhi Pulavar-APPADURAI, and I Picked his book and I QUOTE it for you.
    "Vetha Mozhi Vunmail Ki.Mu. 1,500 to 800 varai India Ariyar Punjabil Vazthntha Kalathil Pesi vantha Mozhiye akum.
    Avarkal Kilakke gurupanchala nattirku (Ki.mu. 800-200) Noolvazhakku Mozhiyilirunthu Pechu mozhi Nedunthuram vilakiru. NOol Vazhakhu Mozhi VETHA Mozhi endrum PechuVazhkku mozhi Basha endrum Vazhankina.

    Mozhi Arignanaral ithu, Pirkala Vethamozhi enapadum Upanitathangal Ithihasa Purangal Ithileye Iyayyrap pattana. Ivarrinidaye Vetha Mozhikku Baskararalum Pirkala Vetha Mozhikku Paniniyalum Ilakkanam VaHUKKAP]
    pattathu.
    ...
    Vada Mozhi Ilakkiya Kalathirku Murpatta Kalathil Vethankal, Pramanangal Aranyakangal Upanitathangal, ITHIHASA pURAangal, Smiruthikal, Vethankangal Ilakkanangal ahiyavai Iyarrap pattu irnthana. Vetha Kalathil Elethumurai erpatathathal Padalkal Vaimozhiyai Oppuvikkap Pattana. Ithanaleye Vethangal Vaimozhi- Ahamam Enappattana. Ivarrul Pira Vethangal anaithum Rig vethathin thirubu kalum vilakkangalume akum. Rig Vetham Iyarkai padalkalin Thirattu, athalal, VUlakin Nadadi Padal Ilakiyankaludan Oppidaththakka Kalai Sirappu Vdaiyathu. Thavira Pirkala Vethamozhi ilakkiyam pola varai indri Idaicherukalum perukkamum kkurukkamum marramum idil illai, athalal akkala nilaikalai arivippathil ithu Siranthathu ahum.
    Vethankalil yajur vedamum Piramanangalum Upanitathangalil Silavum Vurai Nadail vullana. Vulakin Mikap Pazhamziyana Vurainadai endra Srappu Evarrirku Vundu...

    Ramayanam ondru than Kittathatta Ore Kalathil Ore Pulavanal Iyarrapatta PIRKALA VETHA MOZHI Noolakum. Pages-149-154, Vulaka Ilakiyangal, Author Panmozhi pulavar APPADUARAI, pUB: Saiva siththantha KAlagam-1951.

    Appadurai, is not a lover of Sanskrit, and certainly in between these research opinions, he has made popular meaningless statements also, which are mostly quoted by friends.

    Historical Linguistics, is a science which helps to date a Language and clearly Rig Veda is now dated close to 2000 CE, and on similar counts, Tolkappiyam can not be dated more than middle of sangam Literature, i.e 100-150 BCE, I Shall post them shortly.

    In Sangam Literature and Tholkappiyam we have complete details picked ffrom vedas and even veda name is mentioned once or so.

    Please do not take emotions overtake truth and Tamils would be laughed all over.

    We can understand FSG and Hyprcritic Techniques, not based on facts.
    MosesMohammedSolomon
    Solomon

Page 14 of 18 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Is tamil derived from Sanskrit
    By Oldposts in forum Tamil Literature
    Replies: 279
    Last Post: 8th June 2018, 03:36 PM
  2. all Truth summarised abt Tamil n sanskrit
    By Oldposts in forum Tamil Literature
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 15th November 2008, 11:59 AM
  3. Tamil and Sanskrit
    By maduraithamizhmanikandan in forum Indian History & Culture
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 30th May 2006, 12:49 PM
  4. Tamil Vs Sanskrit
    By Oldposts in forum Tamil Literature
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 12th December 2004, 08:32 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •