TAMIL is much ELDER to SANSKRIT !

[solomon]

I GIVE here waht Devaneyan has said:

"Iyarsol Thirisol Thisaisol Vadasolen
anaithe seiul ittach Solle" -Tholkappiyam Solathi1
Merkuriya Iyarsol Thirisol Thisaisol ennum mundruda, Edaikalaga(Sangaha) Kalathil Puthithai Vanthu Valanghiyaoru sila Vada Sorkal Tamilil Kalntha Ayanmozhi endra vakayil vadasorkal endre Koorap pattana. Akkalathil tamilir Kalantha Ayanmozhi Vadamozhi Ondre. Immuraipadiy Ikkalathilum Tamilir Kalntha Angila sol, Portukesia sol, muthaliavarrai Avvam Mozhi peyalral Angilasol, Portukesiyasol enak kural vendume andri Thisai sorkal enak kooruthal koodathu.

Page 9,10-Thiravidathai.
Pavanar maintained this in all his books he wrote over 50 years of his research. I AM Confident that his Knowledge to interpret Tamil verses of Tholkappiyar is OK.

I sincerely regret to the level to which friends have gone, like a kid making shit a Public place. Tiruvalluvar says God is all the script from a- in Kural no1, and Nayanmars and Alwars say it is Siva or Vishnu gave Languages-Vadamozhi and Tamil. Now if Uthappam criticises Panini for saying so as per International Cronology in 5th Cent BCE AND Pavanar 4th CenBCE, Valluvar said so 500 years later and Bakthi Literature after 1200 years. So Why say Nonsense. Christianity and Isalam calls thier Scriptures as God's word, even though they Preach Hateread and are anti-science and proven wrong Scientifically and Historically.

Kamaraj University Publication- Kural Kurum Samayam, the Author tells clearly referring Foriegn Indologists- who accept the International Cronology of Literature dating- Vedas, Upanishads and Baghavatgeetha doesnot have Caste by birth as clear motive.

Whereas Tholkappiyam has it, Tirukural talks KudiPiraappu and PirappuOlukkam in more than 50 kurals, and If Pirappokkum kural is shown there are 50 Kurals on the other side and similarly, Manusmrithi has verses against Casteism. Manusmirithi is dated to 2nd Cen CE and Indologists say Casteism is gone from Tamil to Sanskrit. So talking otherwise shows Poor Understanding.
Casteism is practised mostly by Upper Castes-Non brahmins and Elections to certain places in Tamilnadu is not possible for 10 years now, Stoping of Temple visits of Adidravidans is by these groups and Practice of Twin Tumbler system is also done by Upper Caste BCs. The Most Benefitiories of Caste System were Upper Castes.

If Uttappam says meaning less Utterances and if Seniors acknoledge it with Pride, this only shows the Ignorance or improper approach not fit for the Educated. I look for a matured response.

NanMarai and Marai has been here from Tholkappiyar days and as Kavivanars uses it Continuously Century after Century as Mughals and Christian Aggressors came to India, the Marai was never last and it is available. Please clarify then what it is?

Bible Flood of Nova, as perBible Cronology was in 2200BCE, and It was Cosmic Pralayam, attested by Quran also and Science proved this are false, and taking this to Tamil Legends does not carry any weightage.

Is there any proof of submerged vast lands found inIndian Ocean or Pacific Oceans, any details please.

MosesMohammedSolomon

[Nedunchezhiyan]

Thamizh scholars argue that first 40 kurals in ThirukkuraL were inserted in later days. We have talked about this in this forum and there are debates and possibility of errors as they ThirukkuraL was passed on and rewrote on the palymra tree's leaf. The first kuraL for instance could be something like

"Akara muthala ezhuththellam aAthi
pakalan muthattae ulagu"
like the letter 'a' is the origin of all words, the Sun is the origin of our Solar system!

instead of the word 'pakavan' in the current ThirukkuraL book, the word 'pakalan' should be inserted. Two reasons are given for this, one is either 'la' was mistook for 'va' when it was re wrote on the palmyra tree or someone at some time changed the words or inserted new kuraLs. I think, I read on this forum that we call the author of ThirukkuraL as ThiruvaLLuvar and we don't know his real name or something. If thats possible I think people could have inserted new kuraLs to brainwash the Thamizh people or take over the VaLLuvar's book and maybe lot of spelling errors were made when the KuraL was re written on the palmyra leaf, after all Thamizh people got burnt badly from late Thamizh Academy Time till the end of Bakthi Academy and then from Chozha Empire end to present.

ThiruvaLLuvar has been against manusmirithi and most of his kuraLs speak for his disbelief in manusmirithi.

ThiruvaLLuvar kurals like
'kEdil vizhuchchelvam kalvi oruvarkku
mAdalla mattai yavai'

which says that education is the richest of the rich and important for someone's life and all other riches come after. I belief there are 3 or 8 kind of riches that Thamizh people clasiffy.

Then in kurals where he talks about

Inthiran and how he was defeated by this 'munivar' who controlled his five senses and mock the manusmrithi belivers with that kuraL

"aInthaviththAn aAttral akal visumpulOr
kOman inthiranae saala kati' (i'm sorry if i got the kural wrong)

then in another kuraL where vaLLuvar says
"marappinum oOthik koLalAgum pArppanAr
pirappozhukkang kuntrak kedum" (was it oOthik or oOthuk?)

In this kuraL ThiruvaLLuvar point out how Brahmins are treated better than the normal people of the North India and how if Brahmins make mistake, then their head is shaved bald or they are abolished from the village. However if someone else does the same crime then they get punished in cruel manner.

A Thamizh teacher informed me that, atleast 100 kuraLs in ThirukkuraL are against Mansusmirithi and attack Mansumirithi belief one way or another.

Your disucssion regarding the highest caste and things in ThirukkuraL cannot be accepted as a valid argument. The wors like 'uyar kudi' doesn't have to mean Highest Caste and some words in Kural are interpreted improperly or without full knowledge of the kuraL. For instance you take the word 'Theivam' in the ThirukkuraL, I think Nakkerar from Canada discussed this and came up with some reasoning for it on the Thamizh website www.tamilnaatham.com (not sure when it was). Thus words are confused with different meanings. In Thamizh there are words which can mean many things and many words can mean one thing. Hence Kudi, uyar gudi may not mean caste as u think it does. I can assure you that VaLLuvar wouldn't have inserted Caste System in his KuraL. VaLLuvar kuraLs show how he is against Manusmirithi and other beliefs brought in by the brahmins from the north and etc. Even if there is a mis interpretation found in ThirukkuraL then its either an error or someone inserted it in the KuraL with their own intention.

nanRi, paNhivu

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Casteism is practised mostly by Upper Castes-Non brahmins and Elections to certain places in Tamilnadu is not possible for 10 years now, Stoping of Temple visits of Adidravidans is by these groups and Practice of Twin Tumbler system is also done by Upper Caste BCs. The Most Benefitiories of Caste System were Upper Castes.

Dear Solomon Archaka,

Can you allow all caste people as Archakas ? That is real social justice. Is manusmirithi not talking about this ?

Christianity and Isalam calls thier Scriptures as God's word, even though they Preach Hateread and are anti-science and proven wrong Scientifically and Historically.

Hence, You also follow their foolish beaten path. Is is Not ? Like unbelievable Panini's creation ? His dating is wrong misguided by Manuvadhis which does not have any scientifical dating.

And all other things you discussed are repeated in nature. Don't do this repeated "Koyabal"s propoganda without any proof.

f.s.gandhi

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Here I show how tamils marriage rituals are different from Vedhic marriage. Tholkappiar specifies this marriage only. Solomon wishful selected quoting can be understood by readers.

TAMIL CULTURE

Ancient Tamil Marriage Ceremony by

P.T.Srinivasa Aiyangar

in History of Tamils from the Earliest Times to 600 A.D.
Madras, 1929
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The ancient ceremony of marriage which obtained among the Tamils before it was altered by the Vedhics is described in two odes of the anthology called the Agam. (aka n^AnURu)

Thus it is said:

“There was a huge heap of rice cooked with pulse (even after many guests had been fed). On the floor of a pandal built on long rows of wooden columns was spread freshly brought sand. House lamps were lighted. The bride and the bridegroom were adorned with flower-garlands. In the beautiful morning of the day of the bent, bright moon, when the stars shed no evil influence, some women carrying pots on the head, others bearing new, broad bowls, handed them one after another while fair elderly dames were making much noise. Mothers of sons, with bellies marked with beauty-spots, wearing beautiful ornaments, poured water on the bride, so that her black hair shone bright with cool petals of flowers and rice-grains (which had been mixed with the water), and at the same time they blessed her, saying ‘do not swerve from the path of chastity, be serviceable in various ways to your husband who loves you and live with him as his wife’. On the night after the marriage ceremony was over, the neighbouring ladies assembled, (dressed the bride in new clothes) and sent her to the arms of her lover, to which she went with trepidation.”(1)
It will be noticed that in this ancient Tamil rite of marriage there is absolutely nothing Vedhic no lighting of fire, no circumambulation of fire, and no PRIEST to receive DAKSINA.

Another ode in the same anthology refers also to the wedding-rite.
“White rice, well cooked and with plenty of ghi, was served to the elders with stintless generosity. The omens shown by the birds were propitious. The broad sky shone bright. The moon was in faultless conjunction with the Rohini asterism. The marriage-house was decked. They worshipped God. The big drums resounded with wedding tunes. Excited women were peeping winklessly with their flower-like eyes at the bride who had been bathed (and decorated). The image (to be worshipped) of big flower-petals, clear like a gem that has been well washed, was placed on the soft vãgai flower with the double leaf whose back-side is bright, and the arugai grass which grows in low land when the roaring clouds pour the first rain and which is eaten by calves. It was decked with cool, sweet flower buds and white thread, clothed with holy cloth, so as to look grand. The bride (was seated) under a pandal, on the floor of which sand was strewn, looking as if rain-drops had fallen. She was perspiring with her load of ornaments. (They fanned her) to dry the wet. Then her relatives gave her away”. (2)
________________________________________
1. Agam 86, 1-22
2. Agam 136, 2-8

f.s.gandhi

[solomon]

Friends,

I sincerly regret as to the level of our friends saying on Misinterpreted wrong Hypothesis again and again.

Fradulant faking of Persian proof FOR SANSKRIT in Egypt of 1700 BCE, is the worst order, which I Shall reply in depth shortly.

Nedunchelian says 40 Kurals are inserted, and as I have said earlier any body can say any portion of Good Literature as insertion if they do not want to accept the Truths which they donot like it.

On Indus Valley Script Dubious reading I give an PRIZE available :

Indus-Script PrizeGo to Steve Farmer download page
$10,000 prize announced by Farmer, Sproat, and Witzel in conjunction with the publication of:
The Collapse of the Indus-Script Thesis: The Myth of a Literate Harappan Civilization (1.1 Meg pdf)
Prize Announcement
Turn up just one Indus inscription that contains at least 50 symbols distributed in the random-appearing ways typical of true scripts contemporary to the Indus system, and we will (1) declare our model to be falsified and (2) will write a check to the discoverer or discoverers for $10,000.
Ground rules: Due to the many forgeries associated with the 130-year-old Indus-script thesis (see, e.g., Witzel and Farmer 2000; Farmer 2003), before becoming a candidate for the prize the
inscription (1) must be clearly provenanced from a known Indus
archaeological site and (2) must be accepted as genuine by a
consensus of recognized Indus researchers.
The offer, backed by an anonymous donor, is good throughout Farmer's lifetime.

See further "A Note on Falsification" (p. 48 in our paper, reproduced at the end of this page).
For an example of what we mean by 'random-appearing' sign duplications, see the Linear Elamite inscription (which contains roughly 50 signs) compared below with the longest known Indus inscription (which contains 17 non-repeating signs). Similar examples can be provided from other contemporary scripts:
Like inscriptions in all true scripts from the late 3rd millennium BCE, this Linear Elamite inscription contains a great deal of random- appearing sign repetition, which in this case is an apparent 'marker' of high levels of sound coding:

- 1 sign repeats 5 times (circled)
- 2 signs repeat 4 times
- 8 signs repeat 2-3 times each

A total of over 30 sign repetitions in the inscription
The longest Indus inscription on one surface (M-314a) is typical of Indus inscriptions in consisting predominantly of non-repeating high-frequency signs (measured in the corpus as a whole). (Note that no sign repetitions at all occur in this particular inscription, although at least 10 of the highest frequency Indus signs show up in it.) The contrast with Linear Elamite is extreme.
For a full discussion of anomalous sign frequencies in the Indus corpus, see Farmer, Sproat, and Witzel (2004: 26-38).
Actual size of the longest known Indus inscription: a tiny .9 x 1
inches (2.41 x 2.54 cm)!

Extract from p. 48 of Farmer, Sproat, and Witzel (2004):
A Note on Falsifiability It will probably surprise many readers to discover that the standard view that the Indus civilization was literate has been an assumption and not a conclusion of previous studies. While debate over the language of Indus inscriptions has had a long and acrimonious history, not one of the thousands of articles or books written on the topic since the 1870s included any systematic justification for the belief that the inscriptions were in fact linguistic. The claim that historical fields follow methods
different from those of other sciences is still frequently repeated.

Given the political abuses to which history is subject, we consider this to be a dangerous claim, and believe that the same rigor must be demanded in history as in any other scientific field. With this in mind, in closing we would like to acknowledge the heuristic nature of our work and briefly consider some conceivable conditions under which it might be overturned.
Specifically, we would consider that our model of Indus symbols was falsified, or at least subject to serious modification, if any of the following conditions were fulfilled:
1. If remnants were discovered of an Indus inscription on any medium, even if imperfectly preserved, that contained clear evidence that the original contained several hundred signs;

2. If any Indus inscription carrying at least 50 symbols were found that contained unambiguous evidence of the random-looking types of sign duplications typical of ancient scripts;

3. If any bilingual inscription were discovered that carried a minimum of 30 or so Indus symbols juxtaposed with a comparable number of signs in a previously deciphered script;
4. If a clear set of rules were published that allowed any researcher, besides the original proposer of those rules, to decipher a significantly large body of Indus inscriptions using phonetic, syntactic, and semantic principles of no greater number or complexity than those needed to interpret already deciphered scripts;
5. If a ‘lexical list’ were discovered that arranged a ignificantly large number of Indus signs in ways similar to those found in Near Eastern school texts.
Due to the long record of doctored evidence and forgery that is part of the Indus-script story (cf., e.g., Witzel and Farmer 2000, Farmer 2003), any discoveries of this type would have to be accepted by a broad consensus of Indus researchers before we would consider our model to be falsified or subject to major modification. We would like to conclude that while we consider it highly improbable that any of these five discoveries will ever be made, we would welcome them if they were, since when considered alongside the many anomalies in the Indus symbol system, any of those discoveries would necessarily trigger a radical rethinking of current views of early writing systems.
©2004, 2005 Steve Farmer, Richard Sproat, and Michael Witzel

These are Scholars from Oxford & Cambridege Universities.

Now, I even recall One TamiL Scholar even went on to say that Entire Kadavul Valzthu and Payiram 40 Kurals are insertions, But for all our friends- I can Show more than 100 Kurals where in Thiruvalluvar follows Indian Vedic Tradtion, and not a single Kural is against it.

Nedunchelian quotes- Agal Visumbular Koman Indiran Salunkari- as against Vedhics by mistinterpreting- I QUOTE from Kamarajar University' interpretation and also Kavimani'S Valluvar- Used Agal Visumbular Koman- it is a single Frace- Leader of Minnum Devarkal- as per Indic Tradtrion- Inthiran was born as human and by doing repeated Yagnas and Thavam he attained the Inthiran Post- and that is what is referred and not Akalikai story as misinterpreted by many.

As I have dealt earlier almost 80-90% of the Temples in Tamilnadu are Kali/Mariyamman and Vinayagar Temples and Archakas are Non-brahmins and all including Brahmins visit them. Stoppage of Adi Dravidars to Temple, Problem in Ther running in Temple, Local Panchayats Election not conducted for almost 10 years are done not by Brahmins and by Upper Caste Non Brahmins, and they control most of the Temples.

I am for Non-Brtahmins for Archakas, but Government control with HR&CE and The lands held by Leading Politician and Upper Caste Landlords must be first takenover and other reforms must be done first. And This discussion here is meaningless, only to divert the truth of Elderness of Vadamozhi.

FSG's Big Lie Saraswathi Mahal has 2000 Years old Manuscripots and Astrolegers-Nadi Josiars see them- Friends I have major collection of All Stone Inscriptions from 200CE to 200BCE, and even in deciphered form is not in proper Tamil, has Vadamozhi- Telugu-Malayalam and Kannada words, and clearly proving that Tamil sCRIPTS CAME From Vadamozhi-Samana Munivarkal. I shall be posting them here shortly for all of us. The Entire Book collection of Siththarkal- Like Agathiar etc., all belong to 17th and 18th Centruy, and I QUOTE from Kamil Suvelible and P.Hd. Thesis of MCC college Tamil HOD, Mr.MosesMichaelFaraday, and has many words such as Rail vandi-Yeshu-Allah and Muhammed etc., and lot of Interpolation by Church can be seen. Hence It' is upto anybody to believe Nadi but, AGASTiar did not leave any Manuscripts and ALL Agathiar Nadi Jothida Books are from 17th Cent. AND the authors referred says the Sittharkal tradition is not Unique to Tamil, are available entire throughout India in every Indian Language.
No Josiar can read any 2000 year old Olais, and I recall friends, during a visit to TN, President Abdul Kalam wanted to get the Oldest Manuscripts of Tirukural, for which what we have are only 300 years old.

Samanam had been inTamilnadu earlier than 500 Bce, and they and Budhists made a duplicate version of Ramayan and Mahabharat, as said by FSG only Proving that Valmikhi Ramayan is available much earlier than that.

Telugu existed during Tholkappiyar days, as Vengadam varai is clearly said in Payiram, and Sangam Literature confirms it.

Vedas were mistranslated and misinterpreted as Fight between Aryan and Dravidain by Christian and Muslims and also Jains and I QUOTE Dr.B.R.Ambedkar agains for all:

Dr. Ambedkar, who was never a Hinduism supporter, wrote:

1.THe Vedas do not know any such race as the Aryan race.
2.There is no evidence in the Vedas of any invasion of India by the Aryan race and its having conquered the Dasas and Dasyus supposed to be the natives of India.
3.There is no evidience to show that the distinction between Aryans, Dasas and Dasyus was a racial distinction.
4. THe Vedas do not support the contention that the Aryas were different in colour from the Dasas and Dayus .....

" If anthropometry is a science which can be depended upon to determine the race of a people ..... then its measurements extablish that the Brahmins and the Untouchables belong to the same race. From this it follows that if the Brahmins are Aryans the Untouchables are also Aryans. If the Brahmins are Dravidians, the Untouchables are also Dravidians....

WRITINGS AND SPEECHES - EDUCATION Dept. Govt. of Mahrashtra vol -7 page 85 and 302-303.

So When FSG' LIES are brought he will bring this falsehood and Archkas story again, We have to look History impartially, Misinteroreting with Pre-1950 books are useless, Tamil Universites have done morethan 500 researches on SaNgam Literatire, and Tholkappiyam and all this have gone to International Universities and The dates of Tholkappiyam and Sangam Literature in www.answers.com, www.wikipedia.com are in line with all this, any of us saying otherwise would be Lauged as fools.

ASM- wanted Pavanar- references and I GIVE again for all:

Nalvetham or Nanmarai, Arangam Agamam enbana ellam Arya Noolkale enbathum, Thirukural thavira ippothulla Pandai Noolkalellam Anthanar enbathum Brahmararie Kurikkum Enpathu Sariye. Page- 102 Tamilar Matham.


Samaskrithtil Thalai sirantha illakana Noolakia Paniniyam, Paniniyal BCE4m Noorandile eyarrpattathu. Ilakkana Noolai Viyakaranam enbar vadanoolar. Annoolirku mun ENN Ilakkana Noolkal Iyarrpattathuakach chollap padukindrthu. Avarrul Muthalathu Vetha Kalthathu enpadum Iyendiram"
- Tamilar Varalaru Page 56,57.

Friends, Every one is proud of our Languge- The Mother Tongue, but it should not blind us from looking at truths, Man does not work to Grammer, and It is Deception to break words and interpret them as Tamil, when we know Other Language has used it earlier.
]
I INTEND giving more from Sangam Literature and Stone Inscriptions, on which FSG shows very weak knowledge, which I WOULD EXpose shortly.

MosesMohammedSolomon

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Solomon continuously repeating his old lies. Atleast he can come with new messages. We can not expect this from "Vedhic liers" . Anyway we have to explain something to the readers.

To support his fradulent hypothesis he wishfully neglect the queries made about marais and insertions. Dear Soloman come out your Egytian sanskrit fraud. we will tell you where you are lacking

Some madmen of wrong hypothesis who constitute not even 1% among Inthu valley researchers ,with their European supremacy who also rejects saraswathi claims by Vedhics announced infamous prize tag selected by solomon. 95 % of historiens of Inthu valley research accept Dravidian/ tamil elements of Inthu script. We can summarily reject solomon's announcement as world historiens reject.

Solomon you prove that the scripts are Vedhics and get the prize. We will be happy in that.

Akal visumbu - Akanta Vaanam - nothing Vedhic in that. Inthiran is marutham God. Any tamil can easily understand this. Stop your wishful thinking and imaginative stories.

The question of Archakas raised by me only after solomon accused others for dividing society. Infact this led me writing this earlier one page exclusively for that. Out of Social ,Educational and Economical backwardness of society the first two caused by caste system and to eradicate caste system I asked to generalise Archaka system there by castes will be eliminated. I was not talking about overruling / power head politics. Solomon you diverted the topic. You tell now I diverted the topic.

Most of the old manuscripts were rewritten in tamil "Vattezhuthu" during King Saraboji in Tanjore which are now showed to visitors and they are lying with saraswathi Mahal. Old manuscript in mutilated forms are available. I expect solomon don't lie further about this manuscript.

Akaththiar wrote for forthcoming generations of various religious followers in their rebirth. Any reader of this column can go and check best nadi readers for their life predictions accurately made. Akathiyar refers muslims as "mugamathu varukkam" and christian as "yesu Varukkam" and even foreigners came here to check this. Apart from tamil copied versions sankrit are available in North India and no other language is having this foretelling material.

Vedhics made the duplicated version of Samanars Ramayana to support their caste system that too during centuries of common era and not vice versa. This is not my view and I have earlier shown scholars proofs regarding this. Don't tilt my view soloman

I have already told my view that Aryans are Hothas. Infact you give proof for that. You neednot repeat Dr.Ambedkar views as "Mudalai Kanneer". We treat Pichachi / tamil culture is foremost in India and the people who followed this are Austro-African-tamil-North indian Tribes.

Pavanar never accept the existance of "Iyenthiram" and it was revealed by Idipakkam quoting pavanar's words. Once again solomon repeats his selective quoting. Pavanar dating of Paniniyam is based on hyphothesis and I vary from this. Show Scientifical proof - Solomon

You please come out with your inscriptions. We will interpret and reveal exact things.

I don't always show vanity about my mother tongue as I expressed all languages are sound. But if solomon like persons make front stages a language of later origin for their selfish purposes nothing is wrong to reveal the truth that tamil is foremost.

Your 'Sathyameva jeYa" came from Valluvar's "Vaaimaiyudaimai" .And we will bring out your "Vedhic lies" with the help of that.

f.s.gandhi










[

[Uthappam]

Thamizh scholars argue that first 40 kurals in ThirukkuraL were inserted in later days.

Which 40 kurals are said to be later insertions?? And what are the reasons given by the Scholars?

Your disucssion regarding the highest caste and things in ThirukkuraL cannot be accepted as a valid argument.

Agreed!

[ramraghav]

I fully agree with FSG when he talks about naadi josiyam. I (and my family) was truly amazed by the accuracy with which he spelt out every detail of my sister's life. And we gave him zero information to begin with. Truly amazing........no other word for it.

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

I fully agree with FSG when he talks about naadi josiyam. I (and my family) was truly amazed by the accuracy with which he spelt out every detail of my sister's life. And we gave him zero information to begin with. Truly amazing........no other word for it.

Thank you, Thiru Ramraghav for sharing your personal experience of Nadi sothidam. Infact I went to see nadi sothidam for myself in order to check whether 7 births as explained by tamil marais are true or not. I got enough evidances that 7 births exists for human being. For Atheist this would be unbelievable. But it is true. Tamil five epics (Kappiam) are based on this 7 birth theory.

I have already showed in "Kumari Kandam" thread about the message of Thiru.Narayanan Iyengar in his book 'Vaanmeekarum Tamizhum" that since Agaththiyar came from Kailayam it is proved tamil existed in kailayam during Agaththiyar days. It must be around 3000-2500 BCE and during that time tamil should have prevailed all over India. The north indian research about 'Paisachi' language shows this.During Tholkappiar days (1250 BCE) 'Vaduku' language(Old telugu and old kannada) evolved out from tamil. Malayalam was not there during that time as Tholkappian says about northern and southern part without telling East and West borders. Nachinarkiniyar explanation shows this.

The same Agaththiyar is called Agastiya in old Quran and Agastin in Old Bible and Agasthiyan in sanskrit works.

Agaththiyar nadis were frequently rewritten at the gap of 500 years and copied in various places of tamilnadu and north India. It seems agaththiyar foretold there would be Mogammathian / Christian followers.

When I visited nadi sothidam in "Vaitheeswaran koil" and I have been told that lot of fakes followed. I selected a scholar nadi reader and asked him to explain exactly what is written in palm leaves and I put condition that I should see the writings. As I have some knowledge about Brahmi and other scripts I could be able to read it. The script varied in various chapters and this shows mutilated parts were removed by copying in new palm leaves with existing script during that time.

I observed various "Erasis" were refered as "Orais" and the name of Erasis were all in tamil like "Thel,Nandu" for Kadakam and Viruchikam.

I would write about tamil occultics after sometime including the calculation of equinoxes.

All vedhas and subsequent agamas and puraanas had copied / taken this occultics values of tamils and used in their tradition and this is the leading historiens' view.

In a haste to make the vedhic tradition again in India and therby making a way to gain / superiority over masses, new avathars like solomon come again and again.

I give an illustration of a person called Mr. Rajaaram who is NRI computer Engineer turned historien tried to make fraud samples in sinthu valley to show that vedhic presence was there.

Interestingly, relatively mediocre NRI engineers are crafting the bulk of these so-called revisionist histories. Two of the main protagonists: Subhash Kak and S.Rajaram are in obscure computer science departments in the US. The other actor is David Frawley, whose claim to historical knowledge stems from a short stint in Varanasi where he “discovered” Hinduism. In the quest for antiquity, not only “creative” exercises in interpretations are being carried out, even outright fraud is being used.

N.S. Rajaram recently co-authored a book with N.Jha (The Deciphered Indus Script: Methodology, readings, interpretation) and claimed to have deciphered the Harappan script as a variant of Brahmi and the Harappan language as late Vedic Sanskrit. While Jha had produced a monograph on this about five years back, it made little impact then amongst scholars as its methodology was too “flexible”; using such methods the Harappan script can be “recognised even as OLD ENGLISH

The peculiar twist that Rajaram imparts is his discovery of HORSE in one of the Harappan seals and a host of “references” to horses in the deciphered Harappan inscriptions. Unfortunately for Rajaram, his “horse seal” was found to be an outright fraud: it was a computer enhanced image of a cracked seal in which the horse head is allegedly visible in the portion of the seal that was cracked and broken in the original seal. Even worse, Rajaram failed to mention where he had found this evidence

It was finally tracked down after a detailed search of various archival materials to a 1937 photograph when it became clear that the image that Rajaram produced in his book was not the same one in the photograph. This led to Rajaram’s admission that he had “enhanced” the image using a computer. He still fails to explain how the computer was able to extract an image from a portion of the seal that is missing in the original. A detailed description of the fraud can be found in the latest edition of Frontline where two scholars -- Michael Witzel and Steve Farmer -- give details of the fraud

Refer (Horseplay in Harappa: the Indus Valley decipherment Hoax, Frontline, October 13,2004).

Vedhic lies can no longer live. For the past 1500 years nearly 90% of people were made as illiterates due to caste system of Vedhics. And it was possible for Vedhics to spread their own theory. Presently many people especially the southern people got elevation in education the Vedhic frauds can no longer be spreaded.

BEWARE OF VEDHIC FRAUDS

f.s.gandhi

[r_kk]

Dear FSG/Ram raghav,
You are unnecessarilly calling non-believers/skeptics/atheists in to this discussion. Nadi Joshiyam or any kind of astrology (not early astronomy) are not proven ones and there are hundreds of ways to tells one's back ground. Please don't depend on such unproven things when you talk about history. I can write scientific background behind this kind of mind reading techniques, but it will lead to total deviation from the subject of this thread.

If you feel Nadi Joshiyam can be proven, kindly apply to 1miilion dollar CSICOP challange ( http://www.randi.org/research/ ). If you are not ready for a big challange, I am ready to sponsor a project (I can hand over some finger prints and pay the necessary fees). Can you get the past history (using original script in Brahmi and explantions, authendicity of suvadis using dating process and other scientifically justifiable process) and future for those persons using Agastiyar Naadi of Vaitheeswaran temple?