View Poll Results: TAMIL or SANSKRIT which is the most ancient language ?

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  • TAMIL

    8 88.89%
  • SANSKRIT

    1 11.11%
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Thread: TAMIL is much ELDER to SANSKRIT !

  1. #1
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    TAMIL is much ELDER to SANSKRIT !

    I have read the previous discussion forums comparing Tamil and
    sanskrit. Its true that Tamil and sanskrit have complimented each
    other i.e Sanskrit has borrowed many words from Tamil and Vice
    versa. But it completely saddens me to see that some of them
    have concluded saying Tamil has been derived from sanskrit. I
    have made a year long research on this area and I have written a
    article based on all my findings. I have also published my article as
    blogs in various sites. Plz check the URL
    http://testoftime.blogspot.com/ or mail to
    vasanthan.b@rediffmail.com to get the article as PDF file.

    Vasanthan B

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  3. #2
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    TAMIL is much elder to SANSKRIT

    Dear Thiru Vasanthan,

    I am glad to note your enthusiastic efforts and lively Research presentation.

    Before I seek your clarifications on several points on your Report, I have to put forth here one RUDIMENTARY TRUTH here, based on authentic Research studies by many of the Non-British Historians.

    (1) The FIRST CLASSICAL LANGUAGE of Humanity?

    The FIRST LANGUAGE ever spoken by Mankind anywhere in the whole world is.... undoubtedly.... TAMIL only originated from North India, on the banks of Saraswathi River while the rest of the country was only Forests. Even during the Ramayana period we find that the South India as also the Nasik region of Western India was so. In the regions of the present Turkey, Burma, and Middle-East the Humans were only Savages. The rest of the world mostly were capped up with Ice.

    (2) Who the ARYANS?

    British dictators purposively made the false histories written just with a malefic intention of DIVIDE AND RULE Policy over the huge mass of enslaved but wise Indians on the whole.

    Dr Ambedkar used to call himselves as the True Aryan.

    Mahakavi Bharathi says...

    "Aariya" naattinar aanhmaiyoadu iyatrum seeriya muyarchigalh.

    "Aariyarum" nara veeriyarum...... Vandhae maatharam

    Whom does the Tamil-poet Bharathi mean as ARYANS and which country does he call as ARIYANAADU ?

    It is totally wrong to say that the so called ARYANS entered into India as Domiciles from the Middle-East and that the most Ancient people of India were called as DRAVIDIANS. In fact there were no separate Races as Aryans and Dravidians. The so called Aryans were the Indian nationals BY BIRTH and NOT BY DOMICILE. There were ONLY ONE RACE initially all over India, then confined to only the Northern part and that Race was the Aryans. the descrption of their complexion height and look are all the False stories, Myth and Imaginary creations made by the British rulers who invaded on the Indian Culture too.

    There were only one mass of people in North India, in the days of Linguistic origination, who were subsequently named as ARYANS in Sanskrit, which means ... Uthaman... Great-Man. In Sanskrit Literature and stories we can find the wife addressing the Husband as ARYA. Even Seetha-Dhevi addressed so as per Valmiki Ramayana.

    (3) Who the DRAVIDA?

    First of all we have to think over, from which Language this Word DRAVIDA has emanated? Is it a Tamil word?. No Not at all. Because the Tamil Language does not have the cluster of letters like Dra, Pla, Kru etc., whereas Sanskrit and all other Indian Languages have so.

    In fact the word DRAVIDA is a Sanskrit term, the Sanskrit DHAATHU for which is ... "DRU".... meaning ..."MOVE".

    From the same Dhaathu, the word "Dravyam" meaning Money / Wealth since it always passes from hand to hand and does not remain at one place.

    And why the so called Dravidians were named so?

    The Sanskrit word DRAVID means WAGABOND ("Naadoadi" in Tamil)

    Why should they be called so ?

    One section of the people were highly intelligent, enterprising and ADVENTUROUS enough (similar to British) to boldly venture into new areas of the forests and make an advanced life there. This sections of people were mockingly called as WAGABONDS (Dravid in Sanskrit) by their own brethren who were contented to be static in the specific regions already well-developed. Whereas the moving Indians advanced more ahead by means of wisdom, sincerety and hard toil.... as the History speaks of the Tamilians of Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Singapore and elsewhere, well-known for such exemply Human potentialities coupled with with high human calibre.

    The proverbs .... YAADHUM OORAE YAAVARUM KAELHIR.... and ....

    .... THIRAI KADAL OADIYUM DHIRAVIYAM THAEDU....

    .... are only in Tamil, and in no ther Languages anywhere in the world.

    (4) Origin of the new Language SANSKRIT?

    The first Group of Mankind speaking Tamil had no Religions of their own but were worshipping the Sun as the Super-power. They were mostly eating Pond-Fish and Agro-products.. Later the Rishis came to these regions, who called themselves as the messengers of God.

    The local people believed it because they had some Super-human powers and declared that they had seen God with naked eyes. New skilss like Manthra-sathram, Dhanur-Sasthram (Bow & Arrow), Ayur-Vedam, Jothisham, Vaana Sasthram etc. added honour to that subsequent classical language. That is how the Hinduism originated in India., through which the Language Sanskrit were taught by the Rishis, along with the Vedas as Gospels, naming it as the VOICE OF GOD. That is how Sanskrit is called as Deva-Bhasha for Hindus, (similar to Arabic for Muslims and Hebrew for Christians, since their Gospels are written in those Languages).

    Kings encouraged that Deva-basha, spread it amongst the Linguistic scholars but considered Tamil as a cheap Tribal Language and inferior to Sanskrit., which alone were suited for the Intellectuals.

    So the Kings and the Scholars were conversing in Sanskrit while the people were speaking Tamil. In course of time both the languages got mixed up in different forms at different regions and got named as various initial Offshoot Languages like Pali and Prakrit.

    We can note in Sakunthalam original text written by the Sanskrit poet Kalidasa,....

    King Dushyantha speaks to Sakunthalai ( Tribal-girl) in SANSKRIT .... !!!

    .... while Sakunthalai as also the Fishermen speak in PRAKRIT ???

    Since Sanskrit was attributed as the Godly Language it was given high honour by the Kings, without whose adequate support, Tamilians could not comparatively flourish well. So they had to move down far south towards the dense forests leaving off their original settlements in North India.

    (5) How different Languages within ONE COUNTRY of ONE RACE?

    After several centuries of origination of Tamil, these various groups of people migrated to different regions of North India, speaking the admixed forms of Tamil and Sanskrit with further additions of foreign languages like Arab, Persian, Portugese, Latin and Greek in different modes., named them as separate languages. .... If the Tamilians of Kanyakumari, Thirunelveli, Coimbatore, Madurai,Chennai and SriLanka do not mutually meet for more than a century, the various forms of Tamil they are using now would have been named as different Languages other than Tamil.

    (6) TAMIL ... not a Deva-basha (DIVINE LANGUAGE) ?

    Subsequently... rather very late after several centuries... the Tamil-speaking section of people of one and the same race came to know that TAMIL ALSO IS A DEVA-BASHA (Divine-Language) since they found that even an ordinary man, an illiterate Hunter, innocent Farm-labour, and an ignorant Pot-maker could speak with Gods in Tamil as well as see Him in different forms of their choice as Lord Vishnu, Vinayaka, Siva, Muruha, Kali and so on ... the Deities of the same Religion, so called SANATHANA-DHARMA or Hinduism. and the

    ... Gods themselves declared TAMIL ALSO IS THE DEVA-BASHA (Divine-Language)

    Any Comment .... or... Criticism?
    Most INVALUABLE TREASURE is.. Time.
    Spend it MEANINGFULLY Spread effectively.

  4. #3
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    You are WRONG!

    Thiru Srinivasan avargaLae!

    //TAMIL only originated from North India, on the banks of Saraswathi River while the rest of the country was only Forests. Even during the Ramayana period we find that the South India as also the Nasik region of Western India was so. //

    So they said Sanskirit was older than Thamizh first, then they said Mohenjadaro and Harappa belonged to Sanskirit speaking "Aryans." Then they said the oldest civilization is from the bank of "KalaimakaL" river and now they accept Thamizh as the Oldest language but say the origin of Thamizh is in the north? How far will these people go to say that what they say is RIGHT?!

    //DIVIDE AND RULE Policy //

    I didn't think there was a necessity for such thing. I wonder how English is well spoken throughout India, after all it was of the 'Slave Master' language...shouldn't it be ignored? Divide and Rule eh? If something the British should be blamed for then it is for uniting different nations and handing it to the Hindis!


    //Aariya" naattinar aanhmaiyoadu iyatrum seeriya muyarchigalh.

    "Aariyarum" nara veeriyarum...... Vandhae maatharam//

    What we see here is a mis-interpretation of Bharathi. He may have thought that all people under the so called Indian Union which was created by British to be of the same root and thought everyone was from same nationality? [I am not talking about "Human" nationality].

    //in the days of Linguistic origination, who were subsequently named as ARYANS in Sanskrit, which means ... Uthaman... Great-Man.//

    Like Thiru A P Masilmani said once the word Aryan rooted from the Thamizh word 'arivu' and which changed form in Arabic and similarly in Sanskirit. These people called themselves as Aryans. Aryan means Intellectual and no one called them that, they called themselves and Thiru A P MASILMANI gave the relationship between the word 'Ariyan' and with the names like "Eur"ope and "Ir"aq and "Ir"eland.

    //In fact the word DRAVIDA is a Sanskrit term, the Sanskrit DHAATHU for which is ... "DRU".... meaning ..."MOVE".//
    There are two accepted roots of the word Dravidan.
    First one is the word "Thamizh"

    Since these aryans couldn't pronounce Thamizh rightfully, they called Thamizhars as, "Dramilars" and eventually it became as "Dravidars."

    Hence; Thamizh ---> Dramil ---> Dravid

    Thamizhars ---> Dramilars ---> Dravidars


    The second definition which I first heard from Thiru A P MASILMANI...as followed

    Dravida(m) rooted from the word Thiruvidam and thats how the Kazha AkarAthi explains it etc. The Aryans called the now day South India as "Thiruvidam" referring to the Temples in the Southern Countries...(consult Thiru A P MASILMANI regarding that).


    //From the same Dhaathu, the word "Dravyam" meaning Money / Wealth since it always passes from hand to hand and does not remain at one place.//
    If I understood what you said rightfully, above you said the word Dru comes from Dhaathu and Dhaathu means 'move' and I believe you have related that with 'nAdodikaL.'
    If so then how would the quote below which you gave would sound...

    //THIRAI KADAL OADIYUM DHIRAVIYAM THAEDU//

    Go over sea and search and gather "move?"

    I believe the word Dhiraviyam is Thamizh or to have a reasonable Thamizh root. I look forward to Thiru A P MASILMANI explanation on this Word.

    //That is how the Hinduism originated in India., //
    Vedas could have been Thamizhar works. If Mahabharatham was created by Thamizh Hunter to spread Thamizh religions in the similar way Ramayanam was created (where Thiru A P MASILMANI agreed that Valmiki may not have been the original writer of Ramayanam and thats what many scholars believe but lack of evidence to prove the theory), I don't know where the so called "Hinduism" believe to have originated from.

    Thiru A P MASILMANI explained the root of the word 'Indhu' which is the root of the word 'Hindu' and I believe he said "Indhu" means peaceful. Thus the coined word 'Hindu' should mean peaceful religion.

    I am sure that you are aware of the fact that there was no term 'Hindu' and this is a term that probably have originated during European Times or perhaps during the late British Years. Thamizhars believe originated inside Thamizhars and these beliefs which were followed as religions were fully Thamizhars ideas and although there wasn't any religious form in Sangath Thamizh Literature time, the main Thamizh religions appear to be Sivaniyam and Maaliyam from Pallavar Times. However the deities like Murugan and someone similar to nowday Sivan was prayed during Sangath Thamizh Literature Time. The Aryans had similar Gods like Thamizhars or they may have copied Thamizh God.

    One example of confusion is that of Thamizh God Murugan and Aryans God Subramaniyan. Vividly Murugan seem to have one wife and that is 'vaLLi' in Thamizh. However the Aryan Murugan had a wife called 'TheivANai' which then formulated into the union of Thamizh Murugan Deity and Aryan's Subramaniyan and hence now you have two wifes for the God Murugan. The similar problem arise in the situation of Thamizh God 'KaNNan' and Aryan God similar to Thamizh God 'KaNNan.' It is perhaps that this God was adopted by Aryans from Thamizhars.

    The term "Hinduism" denotes to all religions that formed in nowday so called Indian Union and the one that came from nowday Afghanistan. Remember that the religions like Buddhism, Jainism, Sivaniyam, Maaliyam, Vaithikam, Sikkhism falls under the term "Hindu."

    //That is how Sanskrit is called as Deva-Bhasha for Hindus, (similar to Arabic for Muslims and Hebrew for Christians, since their Gospels are written in those Languages).//

    Thats a dumb believe! Just because the religions like Christianity and Islam have such languages doesn't mean the "Hinduism" has Sanskirit. Sanskirit wasn't the root of HINDUISM! Would you ask why that Thamizh alphabets don't have capitals and English does? Obviously it doesn't say in any rules to 'must' have a capital alphabet and Thamizh doesn't need one either, 247 letters enough for many things. Similarly however you should understand that Islam has Arabic as the main language because people who spoke Arabic formed the first 'Islamic' group. Not only that but there are some things that I read which points out that Islam religion to have originated from the Pagan Religion which once was there in nowday Middle East, again I am not fully sure regarding that info but you should be aware of the religion that was followed in nowday Iran and Iraq before the Islam became popular there. Christianity base it self in Latin and Greek because one of the "ancient" part of Bible to have been written first in Greek and then later on Roman Empire accepted Christianity If I am correct and you know that Latin and Greek forms the Important bone for many European Languages. If Thamizh is the World first language and evidently so called Hinduism rooted from Thamizh Then Thamizh should be accepted as THE DIVINE LANGUAGE! MOST OF ALL THE "POOSAI" [NOT POOJA!] should be conducted in SenThamizh (pure Thamizh).

    Thiruganasambanthar explain in his thevarams about how 'poosai' was done during his days (which was during Pallavar rules after the "time after Sangam" in Thamizh Literature). The way we describe the real poosai as 'vAikattip poosai' seithal which is still done in KathirgAmam ('Thetku Eezham') and in Sannathi Temple in Thamizheezham. There is no need to say manthiram and manthiram really doesn't do anything! If one were to convert everything that a brahmin say in the so called Manthiram then it would either look and sound like a Thevaram or perhaps more like "long live God."

    nanRi, paNivu THIRU SRINIVASAN avargaLae, I also look forward to Thiru A P MASILMANI's comment on this topic.

    mEendum SanthippOm, nanRi.

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    I forgot to tell about the pathetic thing that the Sanskirit and Aryan fanatic did, which was trying to erect a horse on one of the seal found in Mohenjadaro and Harappa Archealogical dig to make things look like they belonged to Aryan Civilizations.

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    //SenThamizh (pure Thamizh). //

    mannikka vaendum

    I shouldn't have said 'pure Thamizh,' there is only 'Thamizh.'

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    Good researched reply

    Thanks for the good researched reply Mr. Nedunchezhlian. Do make a record of all you have observed (visually,etc..) and that that exists now, for after sometime they might cease to exist and later generation may have nothing to say to these denials.

  8. #7
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    Nedunchezhiyan avargaLE!

    arumaiyAna urai

    ġ ɡǡ ?

    ¡, , ġ ȡ ؾ즸 š



  9. #8
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    Dear Mr. Geno,

    If they are able to continue participation here, they would have done it, without our invitation or Reminder... We have to guess .. they are busy due to some reasons... personal.

    So we should not distrurb them... but be satisfied with the postings they have already made here.

    ... with the same spirit... like we have applied in Kambaramayanam thread....

    ... where, by the abrupt discontinuation.. the characters as well as we the Readers... were left in the mid Jungle !!. .

    I think.... for this healthy Thread....Nobody is INDISPENSABLE... including You and Me..

    Why Not you PICK UP the Thread here and continue... you being rich enough with wealthy Knowledge... especially in History.

    If any particulars for posting here... is readily Not available... You are capable of Elliciting and Gathering the necessary particulars and post here....

    .. on which I will join with the discussions...... whatever I can.
    Most INVALUABLE TREASURE is.. Time.
    Spend it MEANINGFULLY Spread effectively.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Senior Hubber Idiappam's Avatar
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    When would Mr Sudhamaa stop telling the hubbers what to do and what not to do!

    Mr Geno, Lets get on with this thread!

  11. #10
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    "Idiappam"

    //When would Mr Sudhamaa stop telling the hubbers what to do and what not to do!//

    Dear Mr Idiappam... Have I said anything malice to anyone or hurting anybody?... It seems you have neither understood my intentions nor the healthy sense of my words hereabove. Please go through once again and tell me... what you found wrong in it.

    Being a Senior citizen in the last chapter of life... I am a well-wisher
    to one and all . including YOU...or even a Stranger...

    ... and whatever I say are only SUGGESTIONS... towards the Unified Happiness of one and all here.

    Especially .. I feel it my duty to point out... (where others may hesitate.).
    in the ANGLE OF THE VIEWERS...

    ... as well as in the interest of the Person whom I ADDRESS or comment on.

    I am the well-wisher of Mr. Geno too ...and I know how much regard he reposes on me... whom I have praised and invited to continue in this by his personally initiated postings too... (please see...my remarks hereabove)...

    So I have addressed him and conveyed my views consoling on his disapointment ...It is between Him and me... since addressed in his name...

    At the same time.. I wanted to invite any Reader to continue the postings here... so I invited all my Friends' kind attention too indirectly.

    //Mr Geno, Lets get on with this thread!//

    Yes...I too had said the same.

    Welcome Mr. Idiappam... I am anxious to hear you... since you are well-knowledged in certain areas... especially on Tamil... So I will be happy to read your postings.

    So my request to Mr. Geno... is repeated to you too. Please gather the due particulars ... and post here...

    ... which both of you are capable of.

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