Ludes of MSV

[Billgates]

Preludes and interludes which were a different tune from the main tune of the song, while it maintained the mood of the song was predominantly popularised by IR. Before that the prelude will be almost the instrumental version of the main song and interludes will be some fill music. Although there were many other composers like Salida and MSV, who used this technique of different prelude occasionaly, IR was the one to use it extensively and popularise it

Mr. Rajasaranam

You seem to have little knowledge on MSV music or probably no idea at all !

You should listen to his compositions first & then comment about him.

Better learn music first & then comment about a genius like MSV .

However, I will agree with you on what you mentioned about Ilayaraja . He revolutionised tfm on interludes with more variety

[MusicIsLife]

Billgates
it is inappropriate to pass comments just like that, you could have given some examples

But what i thought IR did remarkably different was start a song with music than the song itself. See the progress from Annakili to other movies in the same era.

[rajasaranam]

Mr. Rajasaranam

You seem to have little knowledge on MSV music or probably no idea at all !

You should listen to his compositions first & then comment about him.

Better learn music first & then comment about a genius like MSV .

However, I will agree with you on what you mentioned about Ilayaraja . He revolutionised tfm on interludes with more variety

Mr.BillGates,
Ok jump at me after quoting some examples.
AS far I have listened to MSV's music-pre 1976 his preludes were the instrumental version, same as the main tune of the song, most of the time [say 90% ]
Only after the advent of IR this got changed.

[Billgates]

Mr. Rajasaranam

You seem to have little knowledge on MSV music or probably no idea at all !

You should listen to his compositions first & then comment about him.

Better learn music first & then comment about a genius like MSV .

However, I will agree with you on what you mentioned about Ilayaraja . He revolutionised tfm on interludes with more variety

Mr.BillGates,
Ok jump at me after quoting some examples.
AS far I have listened to MSV's music-pre 1976 his preludes were the instrumental version, same as the main tune of the song, most of the time [say 90% ]
Only after the advent of IR this got changed.

Not sure whether you are aware of the follg songs & none of them have relation to the main tune :

Sivandha mann – Oru raja raniyidam
Kadhalikka neramillai – Naalaam naalam thirunaalam
Ooty varai uravu - Thedinen vandhadhu
Parakkum paavai - Kalayana naal paarka
Deiva thaai – Oru pennai paarthu nilavai paarthen
Engal thangam – Thanga padhakathin mele
Vaazkai padagu – Aayiram penmai malaruttme
Enga veetu pillai – Kangalum kaavadi sindhadattum
Avargal – Kaatrukenna veli ( don’t say that this came after IR’s arrival ! )
Pasam – Ulagam pirandhadhu enakaaga
Ulagam suttrum vaaliban – Thanga thoniyile & Lilli malarukku
Nadodee – Thirumi vaa oliye thirumbi vaa

The above songs infact have a lengthy preludes & they are in no way linked to main song but sync beautifully !

It’s a big list. I have just given few examples to you so that you may get enlightened

By the way, I am a woman….. So Ms only pls !

Besides, I too love IR music but no comparisons with MSV pls

[rajasaranam]

Not sure whether you are aware of the follg songs & none of them have relation to the main tune :

Sivandha mann – Oru raja raniyidam
Kadhalikka neramillai – Naalaam naalam thirunaalam
Ooty varai uravu - Thedinen vandhadhu
Parakkum paavai - Kalayana naal paarka
Deiva thaai – Oru pennai paarthu nilavai paarthen
Engal thangam – Thanga padhakathin mele
Vaazkai padagu – Aayiram penmai malaruttme
Enga veetu pillai – Kangalum kaavadi sindhadattum
Avargal – Kaatrukenna veli ( don’t say that this came after IR’s arrival ! )
Pasam – Ulagam pirandhadhu enakaaga
Ulagam suttrum vaaliban – Thanga thoniyile & Lilli malarukku
Nadodee – Thirumi vaa oliye thirumbi vaa

The above songs infact have a lengthy preludes & they are in no way linked to main song but sync beautifully !

It’s a big list. I have just given few examples to you so that you may get enlightened

By the way, I am a woman….. So Ms only pls !

Besides, I too love IR music but no comparisons with MSV pls

Ms.Billgates

Fine I remember every tune of the song you have mentioned here and have listened to them umpteen times. But the preludes never got registered in my mind [except the Aaaaa.... for Katrukkenna Veli] hence i should have slipped in telling MSV's song dont have a different prelude. IMO MSV's songs were more popular for their simple yet beautiful tunes and that is why they get registered well while he dont give much importance to the preludes and interludes.
On the other end IR used to give us richly orchestrated songs with beautiful preludes and interludes, which gets registered well in our minds.that is why when i sing [ a bathroom singer ofcourse ] his songs, i start right from humming the prelude move on to the song, then, hum the interludes, and then, finish of the song.
This is not my individual experience it happens to many, i have noticed who tries singing an IR song. If not why then there are many articles and posts right here in TFM page discussing the preludes and interludes of Raja. Infact the Forum even conducted a contest on 'Ludes of Raja'.
This post is not to demean MSV in any way. It is a thought i have that IR gave new dimensions and colors to the preludes and interludes in his songs and MSV was very good at coming up with nice tunes. That is why when they worked together MSV was assigned to set the tune while IR was assigned to Orchestrate [/tscii]

[s ramaswamy]

Hi,

Guys like Rajasaranam are typical of he generation which has grown up with post IR. On the contrary people like me have grown up with the VR (visu-ramu) era, that should be really called the golden period of tfm.

VR have given so many varieties of preludes and interludes which have abs no connection with the tune of the song that follows, but at the same time blends in beautifully with the latter part that they should be rightly called the geniuses of tfm. I will give only one example -- the tms song from paasam - ulagam piranthuthu enakkaga, in which the prelude is different and the interlude between each stanza varies.
there are four stanzas in all.

I want nincompoops like rajasaranam to listen to this outstanding number and many more. can't digest the general impression of these post ir generations that the songs before his arrival were not good. on the contrary i feel they are far better than what ir and a host of others have composed later.

and another song i would recommend, just for the sake of justfiying my point while there are so many in all, is the en vaazvil puthuppadai kanden by ps in thanga padumai. ask this gentleman who feels msv is a run of the mill composer to listen to this song from the late 1950s (VR).

And there are very subtle differentiations even in the same interludes by msv. he changes the order of usage of instruments to provide the difference (example is ooty varai uravu song poo malayin ore malligai).

I have seen many stupid comments in these forums like the one terming tms's voice as nasal etc, but the one by rajasaranam takes the cake.

[Billgates]

hence i should have slipped in telling MSV's song dont have a different prelude. IMO MSV's songs were more popular for their simple yet beautiful tunes and that is why they get registered well while he dont give much importance to the preludes and interludes.
On the other end IR used to give us richly orchestrated songs with beautiful preludes and interludes, which gets registered well in our minds.that is why when i sing [ a bathroom singer ofcourse ] his songs, i start right from humming the prelude move on to the song, then, hum the interludes, and then, finish of the song.
This is not my individual experience it happens to many, i have noticed who tries singing an IR song. If not why then there are many articles and posts right here in TFM page discussing the preludes and interludes of Raja. Infact the Forum even conducted a contest on 'Ludes of Raja'.
This post is not to demean MSV in any way. It is a thought i have that IR gave new dimensions and colors to the preludes and interludes in his songs and MSV was very good at coming up with nice tunes. That is why when they worked together MSV was assigned to set the tune while IR was assigned to Orchestrate [/tscii]

Mr. Rajasaranam

All the above numbers are quite famous songs even today . I am surprised how you couldnt remember the BGM & interludes !

Infact what I did list yesterday were just few.
Have you listened to Vennira Adai songs ? Terrific preludes & interludes all the way . This movie is an audio delight ! Noone till date could have used PIANO the way it was used for Enna enna varthaigalo or Kannan ennum mannan perai

Oops. I have missed out the preludes for Rajavin paarvai raniyin pakkam

In a way what you said was partly true . MSV probably composed tunes to meet with the situation warranted as he was very particular that the song should be part of the movie but not decide the course of the movie !

No doubt IR revolutionised this concept of preludes & interludes BY LAUNCHING WESTERN INSTRUMENTS like Guitar - lead & Bass

Mr. Ramaswamy - Cool down pls ! I dont think Rajasaranam has denounced MSV Infact he has highlighted the great strengths of MSV - EXPERTISE ON COMPOSING TUNES

[Billgates]

Mr.Rajasaranam

This arrow is at you again Pl listen to Ponmagal vandhaal - Sorgam - Shivaji movie.

You will be amazed by the thunderous preludes WHICH WILL HAVE NO CONNECTION AT ALL TO THE MAIN TUNE OF THE SONG
Listen to the interludes section also & comment

EXPECTING YOUR COMMENTS PLS

[rajasaranam]

Hi,
Guys like Rajasaranam are typical of he generation which has grown up with post IR. On the contrary people like me have grown up with the VR (visu-ramu) era, that should be really called the golden period of tfm.

Not necessarily there are many over here who consider the 80's as the Golden Period Of TFM when a composer was elevated to the status of a SuperStar and his Image was put up on posters in order to lure the film audience.

VR have given so many varieties of preludes and interludes which have abs no connection with the tune of the song that follows, but at the same time blends in beautifully with the latter part that they should be rightly called the geniuses of tfm. I will give only one example -- the tms song from paasam - ulagam piranthuthu enakkaga, in which the prelude is different and the interlude between each stanza varies.
there are four stanzas in all.

I want nincompoops like rajasaranam to listen to this outstanding number and many more. can't digest the general impression of these post ir generations that the songs before his arrival were not good. on the contrary i feel they are far better than what ir and a host of others have composed later.

Thanks for pointing out that Iam a nincompoop. But try reading my first post, where I never said anything wrong about MSV and just said they too have given songs with Different preludes and Interludes while IR bettered in this aspect. And moreover I stood corrected after Ms.Billgates pointed out with some examples and gave the reasons as to why I dont rememeber them. Do you know Englipisssh then READ all the above posts and tell me where I have said that songs before IR's arrival were not good. After analysing this try finding out who is a 'nincompoop' :P

and another song i would recommend, just for the sake of justfiying my point while there are so many in all, is the en vaazvil puthuppadai kanden by ps in thanga padumai. ask this gentleman who feels msv is a run of the mill composer to listen to this song from the late 1950s (VR).

And there are very subtle differentiations even in the same interludes by msv. he changes the order of usage of instruments to provide the difference (example is ooty varai uravu song poo malayin ore malligai).

I Would recommed a song title 'Senthazham Poovil' where in there are three different interludes and each interlude elevates the song its mood and the lyrics to an entirely different plane. especially the magudi like sound just before 'Valainthu nelinthu Pogum Paathai' was brilliant to relate 'Valainthu nelinthu' to a 'Snake' and in turn relating it to the sound of the magudi.
Or try listening to 'Vaanuyrandha Solayilae' where in just before lyrics 'Aatrangarai Orathilae Yaarumatra nerathilae Veetriruntha Manarparappu Vethanayai Koorumadi' He adds up a eery kind of blowing air sound and a single Kuyil screeching.
The mental Imagery these kind of Subtle idioms produces are greater and reaches far high than any other composer Living or Dead IMHO.

I have seen many stupid comments in these forums like the one terming tms's voice as nasal etc, but the one by rajasaranam takes the cake.

Thanks

[rajasaranam]

Mr.Rajasaranam

This arrow is at you again Pl listen to Ponmagal vandhaal - Sorgam - Shivaji movie.

You will be amazed by the thunderous preludes WHICH WILL HAVE NO CONNECTION AT ALL TO THE MAIN TUNE OF THE SONG
Listen to the interludes section also & comment

EXPECTING YOUR COMMENTS PLS

The less than 10 seconds prelude is too small to analyze while it does gives the opening punch to the song. But the interesting aspect of the song was the second lengthy interlude with amazing choral works and nicely interwoven music. :claps:
But As mentioned earlier the Tune of the song is overpowering these ludes and that is what is the power of MSV.
While I reiterate that IR gave us the songs as a complete package rather than concentrating on one aspect alone.

And please If you people Excuse Us let we people Discuss On Raja's Contributions over here and I will be obliged to visit a thread if you start on the ludes of MSV and sure to pour in some comments.