ISRAEL - Who have real right to it ?

[Nakeeran]

Lets discuss about Isreal & also the on going crisis in middle east - the war between Israel - Lebanon & other gulf countries

Wish to know more about why & how Jews occupied Israel & how the Palestine liberation movement surfaced etc etc

Healthy discussions pls

[Badri]

Historically, the area now known as Israel had been continously fought, occupied and re-occupied by Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians, Greeks and Romans, resulting in several mass expulsions of the Jews that had made their nation there. (Jews believed - some still do - Israel was the land God had promised them.)

It was Romans who gave the name Syria - Palestina to the region in an attempt to erase Jewish ties and dominance to the region.

In more recent times, the League of Nations established in 1920, a British Mandate of Palestine. Under the Mandate, Jewish immigration to Palestine increased substantially. Traditional Palestinian Arab leaders strongly opposed the immigration, which increased drastically during the Nazi period as Jewish refugees fled Nazi persecutions and found refuge in the Mandate.

In 1936 the British Peel Commission advised that the western part of Palestine be divided between Arabs and Jews. The Arabs then launched the Great Uprising against British rule in an effort to end the immigration. The Jews in the meanwhile launched their own agitations against both the Arabs and the British.

Soon after World War II, the British decided to leave Palestine. The United Nations attempted to solve the dispute by putting forward the 1947 UN Partition Plan, dividing the land area between the two populations, on November 29, 1947; the Jewish Agency accepted the plan, while the Palestinian Arabs, along with their allies elsewhere in the Arab world, rejected it as inadequate. The Arab-Jewish fighting within Palestine escalated to full-scale war right after the UN partition plan was approved, and on May 14, 1948, the Jewish population declared independence as the state of Israel.

The armies of Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria then invaded, but did not succeed even in holding onto much of the areas reserved in the UN partition plan for the Arab state.

Large numbers of Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes during the fighting and to this day have not been allowed to return. Israel managed to maintain its independence and even expand its borders.

What remained of the territories allotted to the Arab state in Palestine was annexed by Jordan (the West Bank) or occupied by Egypt (the Gaza Strip) from 1948 to 1967.

In 1967 Israeli forces preemptively attacked Egypt and Jordan in what has come to be known as the Six day war. As a result of the 1967 Six Day War, the Israel Defense Forces occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula bringing them under military rule. The United Nation's Security Council passed Resolution 242, promoting the "land for peace" formula, which called for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in 1967 in return for the end of all states of belligerency.

Since that time, the Palestinians refugees have struggled to assert their own independence, either in all the territories of Palestine or in the West Bank and Gaza Strip particularly.

- SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN CONTINUING SINCE....

(much of this has been gathered from Wiki)

[Nakeeran]

Mr. Badri

Thanks a lot

I think India & some other countries adopted a policy of diplomatic severance of ties with 2 countries - South Africa & Isreal for some time

SA - I know due to apartheid , the whole world was against them & India too joined

Israel - Why ?

and what about India's ties with Israel ? I request this also may be covered here
I mean , what has been India's stand on Israel vis a vis Palestine

I vaguely remember Indira & Arafat had wonderful wrapport

[alwarpet_andavan]

SA - I know due to apartheid , the whole world was against them

Not quite, U.S.A was selectively a friend of S.A during the apartheid [the reign of Ronald "The Rogue" Reagan] for reasons obvious to anyone who knows about the real history of U.S
About India's stand w.r.t to Israel-Palestine, the UPA has taken an andhar bulti on its CMP promises [Common Minimum Programe] and has favored Israel over Palestine, thereby betraying the cause of the Palestines.

[alwarpet_andavan]

Nakkeeran,
One more point.. its not as though there has to be a dichotomy like Israel OR Palestine. The solution should be some mutually acceptable form of a two-state formula.

[alwarpet_andavan]

SA - I know due to apartheid , the whole world was against them & India too joined

Israel - Why ?

Nakkeeran,
A long one but a must read - http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20040309.htm

Also, please try to read books/articles by Edward Said [one of the most respected writers on the Israel-Palestine issue] and the man himself.

[crazy]

politics.............hm intresting

ISRAEL- THE PROMISED LAND OF JEWS

today i and my bro was having discussion about Israel and Arab nations and ofcourse Iran.

I feel terribly sorry for palestinians..............it was their soil, their land ............only b'coz the europeans felt guilty and sympathy towards the jew...............the ISREAEL was formed!
i have a palestinian friend...............whenever she speak of palestine...........i can see pain and sorrow in her eyes, but no hatred............she is the only muslim friend i got who have such a tolerance towards Israelites, where as my afghani and turkish friends keep saying bad about jews and israelites!

just for about 4 months ago we went to the Nobel Peace Centre in Oslo and saw the gallery by a hungarian guy(jew) whom i dont remeber his name................his picture taken during the 2nd WW showing basically the sufferings of the jews...............

when we got back to the class..............we r asked to say how and what we felt about the pictures!
since i had some sort of passion to to jews and had a class full of muslim friends ...............i chose to be quite.............i simply said NO COMMENTS, but my palestinian friend she spoke "these pic only show the sufferings of the jews in europe during 2nd WW, but it failed to show how my grandpa was sent off his field(her grandpa was a farmer or sth in palestine-now israel) and the british forced us to leave ur belongings and soil ................just becoz they felt sorry for jews thay gave them the land, but what about us? where is the pic of my grandpa who was beaten up to leave his land? or those who missed their life fighting against the british"

my eyes got wet...........for the first time i saw hatred in her eyes........apropos palestine!
the SO CALLED PROMISED LAND belongs to both, both jews and arabs(palestinian muslims and christians).

history is painfull .................when it comes to ppl and leaving a country its matter of identification, pride and also affiliation...............i have seen many asking this stupid question.............why cant u guys live together with them, whats the big deal? blah blah blah blah.........

ofcourse nothing............when u see soemone rule ur country its pretty sweet, eh?
when u see ur grandparents leave their home and soil .........where they lived for yrs and yrs, its nothing, yeah..........right!
its all just brings my hatred toward******** which i tried to conceal, but cant!


BUSH QUOTE: every nation has the right to defend herself towards attack(terrorist )

yes right..................then i got to say that the palestinian have their rights to attack back on israel!

i wont really blame the israelites or the palestinian................for what is exactly happening now.........

i only wish the palestinian get their independence..........
my friend told me that they (palestinians) r neither accepted in the arab world nor in israel!
i really hope/ pray for the liberty of palestine! insha allah they will get it soon!

i only got one question: why cant these jews who were once suppressed and killed ............no massacred some yrs ago want to take their revenge over palestinians? cant they just give them independene? or cant they simply ask the GOD who promised the holy land to them about the problems between jew and arabs? i kind of really wonder what THE GOD will say?


this is the link to the Norwegian peace center

[alwarpet_andavan]

Nakkeeran,

Noam Chomsky on Lebanon - http://www.chomsky.info/articles/19960423.htm

[alwarpet_andavan]

May 12, Masrah al Madina, Beirut. After Noam's lecture, there is an unexpected and particularly poignant moment. A young woman, maybe in her late 20's, comes up to Noam and just says "I am Kinda." She has one of Noam's books, Pirates and Emperors, where he reproduced the letter she wrote at the age of seven after the American air raid that destroyed her home in Tripoli, Libya, in April 1986. This was a terrorist attack that killed between 60 and 100 civilians, aptly characterized by American journalist Donald Neff at the time as "a demonstration of the bully [the Reagan administration] on the block picking a fight with the little guy [the Qaddafi regime]." Kinda asks Noam to sign the book; her mother is there too. Noam calls Carol over and they all meet. Kinda's letter read:

"Dear Mr Reagan

Why did you kill my only sister Rafa and my friend Racha, she is only nine, and my baby doll Strawberry. Is it true you want to kill us all because my father is Palestinian and you want to kill Kadafi because he wants to help us go back to my father's home and land.

My name is Kinda"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.... of a murderous terrorist attack in March of 1985, now nearly forgotten in the West. At the time, a car-bomb operation in a populous section of West Beirut, organized by the CIA, was intended to assassinate Fadlallah. The bomb killed some 80 civilians and wounded over 200, though Fadlallah escaped serious injury.[7]

7. Bob Woodward and Charles R. Babcock, "CIA Tied to Beirut Bombing," International Herald Tribune (13 May 1985).


http://www.chomsky.info/onchomsky/20060712.htm

[alwarpet_andavan]

By the way anyone who dismisses anythign said or written against U.S.A/Israel as "just another conspiracy theory" should please read a little bit about UN resolutions, [which two countries usually vetoed them especially] and also read declassified U.S documents like the Pentagon Papers which reveal much more about American Foreign Policy than any wild conspiracy theory can do