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Thread: NAAN MARAI

  1. #11
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    No 'Naanmarai' But only 'Moolamarai' in tamil

    Dear Friends,

    I am happy enough to meet you again after a gap.

    Historical research shows ‘Naanmarai’ never specify four ‘marais’.

    Pavanar says that Since Yasur & Sama Vedha hymns almost repeat the Rig Vedha hymns, Vedhic ‘marais’ would have to be only two as Rig & Atharvana Vedhas.(1)

    Atharvana vedha contains only ‘manthras’. But Rig Vedha condemns ‘Manthras’. Rig Vedha praises Inthira. But other Vedhas condemns Inthira. Rig Vedha praises pithir / Thenpulaththar. Other Vedhas condemns Yaman and pithirs. Pavanar further says that after learning manthras from tamil traditions Atharvana vedha had been made. 1/6 th of Atharvana vedha is repetition of Rig Vedha. The contradiction between Vedhas is due the insertions made later years and plagiarism of Vedhics from tamil traditions.(2)

    Yasur Vedha contains ritual hymns which have to be murmured / rendered & Sama vedha contains songs which have to be sung during rituals and all of them are repetition of Rig Vedhic hymns.(3) Pavanar conforms that vedhas were only two.

    Latest research & comparative analysis shows that Rig Vedha is nothing but Tamil ‘Iynthiram’ which I may write in detail in some other thread.

    Professor Ragav Iyengar conforms that during Alwar period in tamil land, Rig & Yasur Vedhas were called as Povuzhiyam and Thaithiriyam respectively.(4) He shows the following Thirumangai alwar’s wordings in support of his view.

    “Santhokan POVUZHIYANAI Thazhalompu
    TAITHIRIYAN sama vedhi” (5)

    “Santhoka POVUZHIYA THAI THIRIYA
    Sama Vedhiyanae !, Nedumalae !”. (6)

    Pinkala Nigandu also says that Vedhas were two.

    “ POWDIKA IRUKKU muthal Vedham Aakum”
    “ Erandam Vedham YASU THAITHIRIUM”(7)

    Thiru Ragava Iyengar further conforms through rock inscriptions of 8th & 9th Century ACE that the above two Vedha names are only available.

    “POVUZHIYA Suththiram”(8), POVUZHIYA saranam , Thaithiriya saranam (9)

    The above shows as I said earlier that without understanding the organized pattern of tamil marais, Vaduku Poosaris hurriedly divided and named their collections of Vedhas as four that too after 12th century ACE. The introductory poetry of ‘Sri Villipuththurar Bharatham’ written in tamil (14th century ACE) says that that Bharatham is FIFTH Vedha .

    A renowned scholar Makaral Karthikeya Muthaliyar conforms that ‘NaanMarai’ only means ‘Moolamarai’ and explains as follows.(10)

    Nan marai = Nal + marai
    Nal – Mulai – base or beginning
    Nal + thu = Naaru = Mulai – Young crop
    Naru – Natru – Natrankal – A young paddy crop field.
    Naral – mulaiththal – beginning of growth
    Naru – manam – a smell – to specify the nature of good.
    Nal- growing
    Nal- Ver (root), mulai, Valarchi,Koormai (sharp), Nunmai (acute)

    Scholar Poosai Subbiah Pillai further one step goes and says Vedhas are not marais (unwritten) but only murais (written) .(11)

    Nachinarkiniyar’s commentary note for Tholkappiam payiram also conforms Tholakappiar timeline is much earlier than Vedha Viyasar.(12).

    Tholkappiam Payiram says, “Mayanka Marabin Ezhuththu murai Kaatti” – which means tamil has definite & undoubtful (for each sound) script during Tholkappiar times (1250 BCE) when no other Indian language has script.(13)

    Dr. Kannaiyan (Chennai Emporium Chairman) in his book clearly has explained that Asokan Brahmi inscriptions were evolved from tamil Perumi / Thamizhi script. Scholar Barnel also conforms this. Former Madras University Hindi language Dept. Head Dr. Shankar Raj also conforms this.(14)

    A Buddhist monk ‘Vachrabothi’ (600 ACE) who traveled from Kanchipuram to Japan created & re-organised Japanese script based on tamil script even though he knew very well about paly, Prakritham & Sanskrit script. North Indian Rajya sabha MP, Scholar.Lokesh Chandra’s research paper conclusion says this. (15)

    Hence, World’s foremost available grammar with foremost script never refer four Vedhas and only refers the ‘Moolamarai’ and details the meanings of ‘Moolamarai’ in its chapter ‘Porulathikaram’.

    Tholkappiam specifies Tholkappiar as “Iynthiram Niraintha Tholkappiar” in Tholkappiam Payiram. This also shows “Iynthiram” was ‘Moolamarai.’

    Let us see about ‘Iynthiram’ in relevant thread.



    References :

    1. Oppiun Mozhi Nool – page 128, Thevaneya Pavanar.
    2. Same as 1.
    3. Same as 1.
    4. Alwarkal Kaala nilai, page 230-31, Mu. Ragava Iyengar.
    5 & 6. Naalayira Thivya Pirapantham, Periya Thirumozhi, 5:5:9:5-6,7:7:2 :5-6
    7. Pinkala Nigandu 2060-61.
    8. South Indian inscriptions Vol ii, page 328, Vol iii, page 370
    9. Encyclopedia ,Rep. No ii, 1906 and 76 of 1914.
    10. Mozhinool – Payiraviyal – page 76-77, Makaral Karthikeya Muthaliyar
    11. Tamizhil Nanmarai (Essay), Chentamizh chelvi, April 1992, page 304 – Poosai.
    Subbiah Pillai.
    12. Tholkappiam, Sirappu payiram, page 47, A. Sivalinganar.
    13,14,15. Tamil & Tamil Culture in Indian history, page 5-6, Dr. Ka. Nedunchezhian,
    Tamil University.

    f.s.gandhi

    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

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  3. #12
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    Dear G.V.

    The contents - of your Thread and your last posting above - further confirms how the Tamil Saivaism and Tamil Language lost it's place in the Tamil Nadu temples. (very useful contribution).

    It is very true that the term "Nan Marai'' should be correctly defined in the background of positive historical evidence.

    Further even the term "Anthanar" too should be correctly defined with evidence, as God Siva of Saivaism is also referred to as "Anthanan" in Tamil Literature. Possibly for this reason the Saivite Priests of early Tamil Nadu who officiated religious ceremonies to God Siva was known as "Anthanar", which later became a term used for others too - when Saivite priests lost their control of the Siva Temples of Tamil Nadu. Even today we are aware of the existance of a class known as Saiva Kurukkals in Tamil Nadu and elsewhere, who could have been the decendents of the earlier outsted Tamil Anthanars (to be verified) of Tamil Nadu.

    The term Athi-Saivar too should be defined correctly against positive evidence to bring forth more informations on them too. Further a research into the correct interpretation of the term "Paarpanar" in the earlier Tamil Nadu, too will be very useful.

    It appears the meaning of many terms used much earlier in Saivite Religion of Tamil Nadu - to indicate various meanings, over a period time thereafter have been given new interpretations with the onslaughts of new religious and cultural waves from the north.

    An indepth study on same has to be made, to correctly interpret the "Thamil Saivam (or Saivaism)", of Tamil Nadu.

  4. #13
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    Dear Mr G.V.

    In one of your postings you have mentioned as follows:

    ".....Tamil 'sivan' is from Tholkappiam 'Seyon' which means reddish angry man......"

    I too agree that the term "Seyon" in Tholkaappiam refers to God Siva in the light of another evidence in Saint Maanikkavaasagar's Sivapuraanam of Thuruvaasakam which states as:

    ".......purathaarkku 'Seyon' than poongkalalkal velha......." in praising God Siva

  5. #14
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    A very good informative thread. Thanks for the contributors.
    Liberty is my religion. Liberty of hand and brain -- of thought and labor. Liberty is the blossom and fruit of justice -- the perfume of mercy. Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy.

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    uNmai enna?

    þíÌ ¾ÃôÀðÎûÇ fsg «Å÷¸Ç¢ý Å¢Çì¸í¸û «Õ¨Á¡ɨÅ.
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    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by virarajendra
    Dear G.V.

    The contents - of your Thread and your last posting above - further confirms how the Tamil Saivaism and Tamil Language lost it's place in the Tamil Nadu temples. (very useful contribution).

    It is very true that the term "Nan Marai'' should be correctly defined in the background of positive historical evidence.

    Even today we are aware of the existance of a class known as Saiva Kurukkals in Tamil Nadu and elsewhere, who could have been the decendents of the earlier outsted Tamil Anthanars (to be verified) of Tamil Nadu.

    The term Athi-Saivar too should be defined correctly against positive evidence to bring forth more informations on them too. Further a research into the correct interpretation of the term "Paarpanar" in the earlier Tamil Nadu, too will be very useful.

    It appears the meaning of many terms used much earlier in Saivite Religion of Tamil Nadu - to indicate various meanings, over a period time thereafter have been given new interpretations with the onslaughts of new religious and cultural waves from the north.

    An indepth study on same has to be made, to correctly interpret the "Thamil Saivam (or Saivaism)", of Tamil Nadu.
    CLASSIFICATION

    Sivan worship is classified as according to the several patterns of worship and the timeline of them.

    They were called as ‘Akachamayam’ (inner religions) and ‘Akappurachamayam’(inner-outernal religions).

    Kapalikam, Kaalamukam, Pasupatham, Vairavam, Vaamam, Maaviratham –Akappurach chamayam.

    Paadaan Vaatha saivam, Petha Vaatha saivam, Vihaara vatha saivam, siva sama Vaatha saivam, Eswara vihara vaatha saivam, Sivaththuva vatha saivam- Akachchamayam.

    In the above, ‘Akachchamayam’ classification is latest evolved one (After 1000 ACE).

    The six divisions of ‘Akappurachamayam’ is specified by Periya Puranam.

    “ARU VAKAI vilankum Saiva
    Thalavila Virathan charum” (1)

    In this which one is ancient ? we have to find an answer.

    We all know Appar (Thirunavukkarasu), & Thiru Knana Sampanthar are important persons in ‘saiva Pakthi Iyakkam’.

    “Maabavik Kadayamanar Vaakeesa Thiruvadiyam
    Kaabali Adiyavarpal Kadakkalitrai vidukenna” (2)

    By this, Researcher Dr. S. Veeramani says Appar belongs to ‘Kabalikam’. Mayilai Kabalisvarar temple was made by these traditions.

    In Manimekalai (200 ACE) Kabalikars are identified as “Sudalai Nonbikal(Burial ground stayers)”, Maavirathar as “Viratha yakkayar”(protectors of body), Pasupathars as “Pinaththin Maakkal”(dead bodies stayers). (3)

    Out of them “Kabalikam” is eldest one. “Maavirather” almost followed the same principles of Kabalikam. Kalamukam & Pasupatham evolved from Kabalikam.

    Dr. Mrs. Vasunthara Fillioza says, “90 % of Karnataka Siva temples belongs to ‘Lakula saivas’ and they were called as ‘Kalamukars & Pasupathars’. They slowly adapted Vedhic Vaduku Poosariyam later during 500 ACE. (4) She also conforms that the Kalamukars got ‘religious supremacy over ancient “Kabalikas” later years.

    KABALIKAM

    Kablikars were called ‘Theka Vaathikal’ (Human body orientationalists). Hedonism and ‘Oham’ which were part of ‘ulakayitham’. Ulakayitham is based on “Iyenthiram” traditions. Kabalikars followed ‘Ulakayitham’(5)

    ‘Thirumoolar Thirumanthiram’ also says as,

    Udampaar Azhiyin Uyiral Azhivar
    …………………………………….
    Udampai Valarththen Uyir Valarthene
    !

    Here, Udampu (body), Azhivu-perish : If body perishes, breath stops – is the meaning.

    Dr. Debiprasad further says, “A poetry of Prakasupathi (sanskirt) explained by Mr.Sastri shows that Vedhicism condemned Kabalikars. Vedhics called them as ‘Nasthika’(Here Nasthika does not mean Atheists but opponents of Vedhicism – Nasthika Vedha Ninthika)” (6)

    In Third Chankam “Mathuraik Kanchi” (450 BCE), Kabalikars tantric worship is portratyed. Kabalikam also followed ‘Impootha Vadham’ (Iyenthiram traditions).

    The poetry starts with the following :

    Im perum Poothankalin Nayakan (7)
    Neruppaik Kaiyil Enthia Nediyone- …..

    Then it continuously explained the tantric worship of doing “Poosai” with flower ‘lotus’(symbol for Ladies), bell (symbol for men) & kudam / kumpam (symbol of lady’s Womb / Uterus)

    The same “Kabalikam tantric worship” is identified by Archeologist Mr. Kudanthai (Kumbakonam) Sethuraman in a Kanchipuram Sivan temple inscriptions.(700 ACE)(8)

    The same traditions are identified in Tholkappiam(1250 BCE) as “Kodinilai, Kanthazhi & Valli”

    “Kama pakuthi Kadavulum Varayar”(9)

    ‘Kodinilai’ is part of ‘fertility cult’ of tamils. It contains ‘Manthiram & Enthiram’ (I may write in detail when I write about “Iynthiram” later). In that ‘Females’ were ‘Poosaris’.

    One of such ‘Kodinilai Enthiram’ has been found in Sinthu Valley.(10) This worship transformed from tamil land through sinthu valley to Gulf countries and turned as present Islamic ‘Haj’ kaba worship!.

    “Kottravai”(Tholkappiam) was war god of tamils. She was also called as “Kadukzhal”(forest head), ulaka annai / Sooli (world mother) & Kumari (ever young lady). Her temples were all in burial ground. Various verses of ‘Puranaanuru’ show this. Manimekalai call this place as ‘Sampapathi’. It was called ‘Chakkaravala kottam / sudu kattu kottam” (11)

    The symbols of “Kottravai” later changed into the symbols of Sivan (Seyon). Silapppathikaram Vettuva vari praise “kottravai” as having “Pirai soodal (moon), Nettrikan (third eye), Nakkan (naked), Nanju(poison), Aravai naan (snake), Bending-Merumalai , Yanaithole (Wearing elephant skin).(12)

    This conforms that when the tamil society turned from women head (Thai Vazhi) to Men head society the worship also turned that way. Most of the sivan temples in tamil Nadu are near burial grounds also conforms this.

    The following verses also conforms this.

    “Cheer mannum Thirukadavoor thiru MAYANAM( burial ground)”(13)
    “Chira puraththavar ThiruMAYANAMUM paninthu (14)

    Sampanthar belongs to ‘Kalamukam’ traditions. ‘Kalamukam’ gradually adapted Vedhic form of worship. Sekkizhar portrayed this as,

    “Pooth mae kaninthu Venthan
    Punithanai uyarntha Pozhuthu
    NEETHIYUM VETHA NEETHI
    YEYAKI nikazhntha thenkum”(15)

    But, Appar (kabalikar) condemns this as,

    “Saththiram Pesum Chazhakkarkaal
    Koththiramum Kulamum konden cheveer?

    Here, He condemns ‘Sastras & Koththiras”.

    At last Vedhic evil design swallowed ‘Kabalikar’ also.

    If all Sivaities follow “Kabalika” segment, they would do goodwill to the society.

    Tamil Saivam & Vinnavam Bakthi movements at the beginning were against Vedhic, Buddha & Jains and grew with tamil language & spread all over India .

    At the sametime we should not forget that “Aachivakam” was root for Buddha & Jains & tamil poosariyam was root for Vedhicism. I may write about them in relevant thread.

    References :

    1) Periya puranam, Thiru Knana Sampanthar Puranam, 1203
    2) Periya Puranam, Thirunavukkarasar Puranam, 50
    3) Manimekalai, 6 : 86-91
    4) Lakula Saivins and their contributions to Karnataka,Page 260 Dr. Mrs Vasundhara Fillioza.
    5),6) Lokayata, Dr. Debiprasad Chattopadyaya, Op.cit.pp 16-18.
    7) Mathurai Kanchi 454-459, 460-467
    8) Chanka kaala Tamizhar Samayam – Dr. K. Nedunchezhian, Page 113.
    9) Tholkappiam – Puraththinai
    10) Lakayata, Dr. Debiprasad Chattopadyaya, page 320
    11)Tamizhukku Vazhankiya kodai – Part 2 – page 171, Mayilai Seeni. Venkidasamy.
    12) Silappathikaram Vettuva vari – 54- 61
    13) Thirunavu karasar – poetry 248
    14) Thiruknana sampanthar- poetry 535
    15) Thiruknana sampanthar poetry 858

    f.s.gandhi





    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  8. #17
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    Re: uNmai enna?

    Quote Originally Posted by bis_mala
    þíÌ ¾ÃôÀðÎûÇ fsg «Å÷¸Ç¢ý Å¢Çì¸í¸û «Õ¨Á¡ɨÅ.
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    As you said 'Nanmarai' - Moolamarai' specified 'Isai (Music)' also.

    Second Chankam Tholkappiam & Third Chankam literatures ‘Paripadal’, ‘Kurunthokai’ & Thirukkural follow ‘Iynthiram’ which was ‘Naanmarai’(Moola marai) and this school of thought contains ‘Enniyal-Alavaiyiyal’(Theory of Reasoning & Logic), Oham-Udal (Medicine), & Ulakayitham ( Materialism).

    Prof. A. Chakravarthi Nayinar says this as “Pootha vatham” (Theory of Universe). Theory of Evolution, Thoery of Cause and Effect and Theory of Hadonism – all come under this school of thought. I may write about it in detail later.

    In Paripadal,

    Naanmarai Virithu nallisai Vilakkum
    Vaimozhi Pulavar Kenmin…………..
    ……………………………………….

    “Akaral ariya aniyizhai nallar
    Ikaralai kondu thunikkum thavarilarith
    Thallap Porul yiyalpin THAN (D)TAMIZHAI Vanthilar
    Kollari kuntru payan?” (1)

    Paripadal timeline is 300 BCE. Vaduku Poosaris (1000 ACE) Created wrong meaning based on Vedic traditions & wrote explanatory note as ‘Nanmarai’- Rig, Yasur, Sama, Atharvana Vedha, Vaimozhi – Unwritten.

    ‘Isai’(music) & ‘Maruththuvam’ (Medicine) were condemned by Vedhas.

    Vedhic Manusmirithi says, “ One must not eagerly desire wealth by music, no dance, no sing, nor play musical instruments” (2)

    ‘Aritha Sasthra’ also condemns Musicians. “Artisans, musicians, beggars, buffoons and other idlers who are thieves” (3)

    How Vedhas do explain ‘Nallisai’ (music)? ‘Chathur Vedhas’ are not specified here.

    Here we have to derive the meaning based on Tamil ‘Iynthiram’ traditions.

    Naanmarai- Moolamarai. Moola marai is ‘Iynthiram’. Vaimozhi’ means ‘Mei mozhi’(truth). In ‘Nallisai’ (music) history from time immemorial to till 1100 ACE ‘Tamil Panars’ only prevailed. Vedhicism condemned music. ‘Thevaram’ lines were made music by a lady from the generation of Thiru Nila kanda Yazhpanar.(4)

    The above poetry was written by ‘Kuntram Poothanar.’ His name itself specifies he is from ‘Poothavatham / Iynthiram’ traditions. He wanted to specify that Kathal / Kamam and its feelings are more enjoyable than the music. ‘Aniyizai nallar’- women.

    ‘Iynthiram Niraintha Tholkappian’ says, “Enbamum Porulum Aranum Entranku…” –The “Iynthiram” traditions.(5)

    The same is told by valluvar as,

    “Undarkan alla thadunara KAMAM pol
    Kandar Makizhseithal Entru” (6)

    Nothing is enjoyable than Kamam is this meaning. Tamils organized this natural behavior of men through “Akam”.

    Human naturality is to get ‘Enbam’ (pleasure). For that he needs porul (material). It should be got from Aram (morality/Virtue).

    The only language that put grammar for this Enbam as ‘akam’ is tamil in world. The same tradition was transformed by ‘Vathsayana’ who wrote ‘Kama Sastra’ (800 ACE). His mother tongue was tamil and he was belonging to Kanchipuram.

    In Kurunthokai which was written by Enathi Nedunkannanar also eulogize this tradition.

    PARPANA MAKANEI ! Parpana Makanei !
    …………………
    Ezuthak karpin Nin chol Ullum
    Pirinthore Punarkkum Panbin
    Marunthum undoe mayalo ethuvae ! (7)

    Here the meaning of “Ezuthak Karpu” is wrongly meant & spelt by vaduku poosaris as ‘Unwritten Vedhas’ !

    Whenever ‘Parpan’ found it is usual for vaduku poosaris to mean as Vedhas !

    Here once again we have to derive the meaning based on “Iynthiram” traditions.

    The duty of Parpan is explained in Tholkappiam.

    KAMA NILAI uraithalum, Ther nilai uraithalum,
    KIZHAVONE kurippinai Yeduththanar Mozhithalum,
    …………………………………..
    Annavai Piravum Parparkku Uriya”(8)

    ‘Kamanilai uraithal’- means ‘The Hero & Heroine desire to mingle shall be communicated by ‘Parpan’ between the two. That is why Enathi Nedunkannanar calls ‘Parpan’ who is acting as main instrument in ‘Kalavu’(love) and ‘Karpu’(marriage).

    In ‘Kalavu’ the pain of separation can be wiped by medicine of mingling. It is great “mayal” (Unconscious pleasure). But in Karpu this situation won’t come since ‘mingling’ is ascertained. So, he questioned the ‘Parpan’ whether any medicine available in ‘Karpu’.
    Ezhuthak karpu- “Eeru ketta Ethirmarai Peyaraccham”- as per tamil grammar.

    For example, ‘Vilanka Nirkum’ means ‘Vilanki nirkum’-(stand as explained). In the same way ‘Ezhutha karpu’ means ‘written Karpu’- with ‘Karanam’ ,everything is customized.

    Tholkappiam also talks about this “iyer yaththa Karanam”.

    Hence, ‘Ezhutha karpu’ never specify four Vedhas.

    References :

    1) Paripadal 9: 12 -26
    2) The ordinance of Manu, II : 177-78
    3) Arthasastra, IV:I:204
    4) Oppian Mozhinool . Pavanar, Page 116
    5) Tholkappiam – kalaviyal – 1038
    6) Thirukkural -1090
    7) Tholkappiam – Porul-4:36
    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

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    Dear Friends,

    What is Nan Marai in Sangam Lit.

    Puram166. ¡Óõ ¦ºø§Å¡õ! À¡ÊÂÅ÷: ç÷ ãÄí ¸¢Æ¡÷.
    À¡¼ôÀ𧼡ý : §º¡½¡ðÎô âﺡüê÷ô À¡÷ôÀ¡ý ¦¸ª½¢Âý Å¢ñ½ó¾¡Âý. ¾¢¨½: Å¡¨¸. ШÈ: À¡÷ÀÀÉ Å¡¨¸.

    ¿ý È¡öó¾ ¿£û ¿¢Á¢÷º¨¼
    ÓÐ Ó¾øÅý Å¡ö §À¡¸¡Ð,
    ´ýÚ ÒÃ¢ó¾ ®Ã¢ ÃñÊý,
    Ú½÷ó¾ ´Õ ÓÐáø this Song, in subsequent line refers the Presence of different belief groups. Now Painkat Parppan(Brahahmin- Siva continuously says- ®Ã¢ÃñÊý- 2 x 2 = 4Vedas, which has 6 Braches and are 1.Siksha, 2. Chandas 3. Viyakarnam 4. Niruktham 5. Jothisham and 6. Kalpam. Are perfectly referred in the above song and these names are given in detail in Mankmekhalai
    '¸üÀõ ¨¸ ºó¾õ ¸¡ø ±ñ ¸ñ ,
    ¦¾ü¦Èý ¿¢Õò¾õ ¦ºÅ¢ º¢ì¨¸ ãìÌ
    ¯üÈ Å¢Â¡¸Ã½õ Ó¸õ ¦ÀüÚî
    º¡÷À¢ý §¾¡ýÈ¡ ý §Å¾ìÌ
    ¾¢ «ó¾õ þø¨Ä «Ð ¦¿È¢' ±Ûõ
    §Å¾¢Âý ¯¨Ã¢ý Å¢¾¢Ôõ §¸ðÎ

    Now Vedics are split as 6 Philosophies-
    1. Vaiseshikam - Ganathar(Author)
    2. Niyayam - Gouthamar
    3. Sankiyam - Kapilar
    4. Yogam - Pathanjali
    5. Mimamsaa - jaimini
    6. Vethantham - Vetha Viyasa now all these have been referred with few author names in Manimekhalai.
    À¢È÷ ¦º¡Äì ¸Õ¾ø þô ¦ÀüȢ «Ç¨Å¸û
    À¡íÌÚõ ¯§Ä¡¸¡Â¾§Á ¦Àªò¾õ
    º¡í¸¢Âõ ¨¿Â¡Â¢¸õ ¨Å§ºÊ¸õ
    Á£Á¡ïº¸õ õ ºÁ º¢Ã¢Â÷ , 27-080
    ¾¡õ À¢Õ¸üÀ¾¢ º¢É§É ¸À¢Äý
    «ì¸À¡¾ý ¸½¡¾ý ¨ºÁ¢É¢
    ¦ÁöôÀ¢Ãò¾¢Âõ «ÛÁ¡Éõ º¡ò¾õ
    ¯ÅÁ¡Éõ «Õò¾¡Àò¾¢ «À¡Åõ
    þ¨Å§Â þô§À¡Ð þÂýÚ ¯Ç «Ç¨Å¸û'
    ±ýÈÅý ¾ý¨É Å¢ðÎ 'þ¨ÈÅý ®ºý' ±É
    ¿¢ýÈ ¨ºÅ Å¡¾¢ §¿÷ÀξÖõ
    Athisankarar says that Thol kapilar's Sankiya, Oha & lokayuta are against of Vedhas. These three were called as 'Anviski' in Prahrit and 'Iynthiram' in tamil.

    Vedhicism is one kind of Poosariyam that was accredited as religion during Manimekalai period. Soodamani Nikandu never accept Vedhicism as religion.

    Six branches that you specify are only Akamas. Not different beliefs specified in Manimekalai.

    "Eer Erandu"- is Aram, Porul,Enbam & Veedu - Next line clearly informs "Oru Muthunool" (One) that contains this four. Tholkappiam & Nannul specify these four 'vitues' shall be in a 'Nool'. I have already refered in my last post. This is tamil Iynthiram tradition.

    Various forms of ‘Poosariyam’ were followed by Poosaris and their various names specify the nature of Poosariyam they adapted. “Parpan, Poosari, Pulayar, Kurukkal, Potri, Uvachchan, Nambi, KudiParayar, Ambattan, Valluvan, Kaniyan” were various Poosaris. (1)

    “Karuman, Thatchan,Katrachchan,Kannaan,Porkollan” were five segments of “Kammalars” and they called themselves as “Iynkollar”/ Visuwa karuma Parpanar” and they never invited Vaduku Poosaris for their rituals.

    Valluvans were priests to the early pallava kings before Vaduku Poosaris came into being. A tamil Vattelzhuththu inscription of Pallava (800 ACE) shows that Valluvan Puvanan, the Uvachchan of this temple will employ daily six men for doing temple service. (2)

    ‘Varuna system’ is highlight of Vedhic Religion. ‘Manusmirithi’ Organised it. Then it was inserted in ‘Rig Vedha’ s last paragraph. Infact, Rather, Before common era four type of ‘Varna system’ were followed.

    Tholkappiam type (1250 BCE) was Tamil Parpar-Arasar-Vanikar-Velalar. In this Velalar can become arasar (Kings). Divisions were based on Occupation.

    “VENTHU (king) vidu Padayum Kanniyum”

    “Villum Velum Kazhalum Kanniyum
    Tharum Aramum Therum Mavum
    Manperu marabin Enorkku Uriya” (3)

    The Tholkappiam system is documented in Chanakiyan’s (Thramila – a tamil Parpan-who went from Kanchipuram) Artha sastra (300 BCE) which was written in Prahrit and translated into Sanskrit during 150 ACE.

    Chanakya classified the studies that men have to study as,

    1. Anviksiki (Equivalent to tamil Iynthiram-Sankiya,Yoha, lokayitha)
    2. THIRAIe (Four varna system & Tharma)
    3. Varththa (Agriculture)
    4. Thanda Needhi ( Laws) (4)

    As per Arthasastra, ‘Thiraie’ specifies the Four Varna system & their customs. It explains the Occupation nature of these four Varna men. There also no ‘caste by birth’ is specified. No mention of Vedhas in that. ‘Thiraie’ seems to be direct tamil world to specify ‘Hide’ – marai. Thirai in tamil means ‘Marai’.

    Some north Indian scholars mean the word ‘Thiraie’as Trayi (Triple Vedhas) ! (5) Here only three Vedhas ! What about the fourth one ?- Totally meaningless.


    Before common era, Poosariyam scattered with their various forms in Chera,Chola,Pandiya & Mahatham kingdoms.

    The Vedhas were organized by Vaduku Poosaris in Kanchipuram after common era. Such kind of ‘Bramanocracy’ was made by ‘Parasuraman’ in Southern Kerala Thiruchur.(6)

    The words like Othu,Oththu,Nambi, Kalakam, Cheraman Perumal, Kovil (tamil) specify that Tamil Poosariyam was the base of such Bramanocracy.

    “ Valluva Kone” was head of the Brahmin conferences. Kerala ‘Parayar’ were said to be brothers of such Parpans.(7) Brahmins relied Valluvans for writing their horoscope & predictions.(8)

    Parasuraman made ‘Konkanis’(fisherman) also as ‘Parpans’ by giving holy thread and so later Nampuri / Namputhiri marriages had the ritual of ‘catching fish’. Nampuri was derived word from Nambi (9)

    When Vaduku Poosaris occupied the positions of tamil poosaris they called the Western Coast (between Kokaranam & kanyakumari) as ‘Karuma Poomi’.(10)

    In Rig Vedha, Tamil ‘Otthu, Potri’ combinedly is called as ‘Hotri’ (11)

    Manusmirithi says such kind of “Brahmavartham” (Cloning) was there in between Saraswathi & Thirustavathi rivers (12)

    Knana Vettiyan Poems says as,

    “POONOOL Piranthathu Enkae ? – siva siva
    PIN KUDUMI Anathu Enkae ?.....
    …………………………………
    Veenila Othu Kintra VETHIYAR KALAE !
    VETHAM pirantha EDAMUM Cholveer kaan !

    THEVARAM piranthathu enkae ? THIRUVUM (Thiruvasakam) enkae?
    THIRUMANTHIRAM piranthathu enthen PARAYIL Ulaae ! (13)

    It conforms Poonool, Kudumi, Vetham all organized in tamil land. Thevaram, Thiruvasakam & Thirumanthiram were written by Tamil “Parayar / Parpan”.

    Thirumanthiram (500 ACE) also conforms that Vedhas were organized in tamil land.

    “Erana KANYA KUMARIYAE Kaveri
    Vera Nava Theertham Mikkulla Verpu Ezhul
    Perana VETHA AKAMAMUMAE Piraththalan
    Maratha THEN THISAI Vaiyakam SUTHTHAMAE. (14)

    When I write about Rig Vedha in separate thread I may write more about this.


    Jains (500 BCE) who were non-believers of fate , destiny & caste by birth accepted Brahmin-Shattriyan-Vaisiyan-Sudran Varna in which anyone can become any form depending on their profession.

    Buddhists(550 BCE) accepted the system where Kings were placed first. Shattriyan-Brahmin-Vaisiyan- Sudran was their pattern. Buddhist also rejected destiny and caste by birth.

    In tamil Ezham (300 BCE) Arasar-Velalar-Parpar-Vanikar pattern was followed. Caste by birth was not followed.

    Soodamani Nikandu (Dictionary ) won’t accept this Vedhicism as separate religion.

    “ARU SAMAYANKAL Avana NAIYAYIKATH thodu
    Urayum VAISADIKAM Melulavu LOKAYUTHAM thaan
    KUYILUM. MEEMANCHAM entru kuriththavai yantri Nalla
    Neriyula ARUKKAM, BUTHTHAM neethi yentru othumantrae” (15)

    Six religions were kniyayam (Knayam), Vaisadikam (sirappiyam), Lokayutham (Ulakaiyutham), Meemaanchai,Arukkam (Jains) & Buddham.

    Hence ‘Vedhi Age’ had not existed at all and if it existed It would be only after common era. (150 ACE to 900 ACE). Chathur Vedhas classification is the very latest one.

    References :

    1) Oppian Mozhinool, Pavanar, Page 40.
    2) Castes and Tribes of Southern India. Vol VII, Asian Educational services, Page 303-304, by Edgar Thurston And K. Rangachari.
    3) Tholkappiam, Porulathikaram, 9:82 & 9:84
    4) Arthasastra, I : II : 6.
    5) Ibid, I : II : 1
    6) Francis Day, Op.Cit., Page 40-41
    7) Gustave Oppert, Op.Cit., page 69
    8) The Dravidians, Gustave Oppert, page 68
    9) Francis Day, Op.Cit., Page 309
    10) Glossary of Madras Presidency, Page 411.
    11) Vinsulo, Tamil-English Dictionary, Page 830, Oppian Mozhi nool, page 39.
    12) The Ordinance of Manu, Transulated by Arthur Coke Burnell II : 17.
    13) Knana Vettiyan poems 1500, 35-40
    14) Thiru molar : Thirumanthiram 2709
    15) Soodamani Pannirandu Nikandu, 12 : 51, Mayilam Subramaniya sami explanatory note


    f.s.gandhi
    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  10. #19
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    naanmaRai

    fsg «Å÷¸Ç¢ý ¸ÕòÐô¦À¡Æ¢Å¢üÌ ±ý Á¸¢ú¨ÅÔõ ¿ýÈ¢¨ÂÔõ ¦¾Ã¢Å¢òÐ즸¡û¸¢§Èý.

    Òò¾¡ñÎ Å¡úòÐì¸û.

    ÅÃÄ¡Ú «È¢Â Å¢Õõҧš÷ ¾¢Õ fsg «Å÷¸Ç¢ý þΨ¸ ¯¨Ã¸¨Ç ¿ýÌ ¸üÈȢš÷¸Ç¡¸.

    Much of Arya Vedas were made for chanting purposes though they also contain some knowledge translated and included from Tamiz. Tamiz word "maRai" does not refer to Arya Vedas.
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

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    Thank you very much for your compliments Ms. Sivamala . Let Our journey to find the truth continue If we do not do nobody in earth will do Thanks a lot.

    There are several instances in the past history that “Vaduku Vedhic think tank” with their half boiled-half cooked Plagiarism from tamil knowledge sources, made & organized their literature.

    For example, During Tholkappiam (1250 BCE) times, in tamil ‘Aathan Thanthai’ (Father of Aathan) was called AANTHAI.

    ‘Aanthai’ also was used to specify big round-eyed bird ‘owl’.

    Some other examples are Chaaththan Thanthai- Chaaththanthai, Keeran Thanthai-Keeranthai, Kottran Thanthai-Kottranthai.

    ‘Aathan’ was used to specify priests.

    “Aathanum Poothanum Kooriya Eyalpodu” (1)

    In Chinthu Valley Script also Aathan comes.

    “Thava Thava Thavavan Thavanaal AATHA” (2)

    Normally, persons are identified as sons of fathers. In the above father of son is identified. This inversion was researched by Prof. Mahalingam and he says that the above phrases show the religious heads. ‘Aanthai’ was used to specify "Aazan, Aasiriyan, Thiru thanthai, Kuru" (3)

    Pisiraanthaiyar, Oothalaanthaiyar are such names in tamil literature. One of such Aanthayar is KANI Aathan. He was also called ‘Aanthai’ in tamil. He is identified as Kanathan in Sanskrit literature. He created ‘Vasadikam’ religion(Tamil Sirappiyam).

    Vadukus translated his philosophy & named his writings as “Ulukka Darsanam” in Sanskrit. Here “Ulukka” means the bird ‘owl’ in Sanskrit : not in the sense of other meaning of ‘Aanthai’ in tamil. Great COMEDY (4)

    Tamil “ Akaththiya Tharukka Noorpa” (600 BCE) was the first of its kind in “Tharukkaviyal”( Logic Philosophy) world history. This was transliterated by Gowdamar / Uroka Gupta (100 ACE) as ‘Knaya sutra’.

    Here, the explanation given to ‘Porul’ (matter) in ‘Akatththiyam’ was wrongly understood and written by ‘Uroka Gupta’.

    ‘Porul’ is from root ‘Poruthu’ (retaliation). Porul is made up of two opposite forces. For example ‘Akapporul’(inner) has ‘Kalvu & karpu’-two opposite forces. ‘Purapporul’(outer) has invasion & prevention. All ‘Things’ in this world have made up of two opposite forces. This is something like the meaning of English world ‘MATTER’.

    But as usual Vaduku Gupta transliterated this as means ‘Meaning’ and made sanskirt word ‘pathaartham’ (Tamil patham + Aruththam / Chol porul) & continued his explanation which is not signifying the original & deep meaning of ‘Porul’. (5) HALF – BOILED COOK UP

    One of the Tamil tradition of divisioning five types of land is “Neythal” which came from root of “Neeithal” (swimming). The ‘Maroovu’ of ‘Neeithal’ is Neythal. The land around sea was called as ‘Neythal’.

    Leaving the meaning of ‘Swimming’ Vaduku Poosaris translated that word as Ney+thal +nilam (land). Ney-(ghee)-“KSHEERA BOOMI”- ‘Ksheera’ means ghee. Great COMEDY again (6)

    Likewise, Hurriedly in half cooked way Vadukus classified four Vedhas without understanding meaning of ‘NAANMARAI’

    Thirumangai Azhwar (700 ACE) says,

    CHEN THIRATHTHA TAMIZOSAI VADACHOL LAaHI
    Thisai Nankum Aaki Thinkal Knayiru Aaki”. (7)

    From this we come to know that all Astronomical & Mathematics terms of organized tamil (Chen tamil) turned in north languages Paly, Prahirt & Sanskrit as technical terms. I may explain how in relevant thread.

    References :

    (1) Tholkappiam, Ezhuththathikaram, 8,53.1
    (2) Chinthuveliyil Tamizh Mozhi, New Research, Poorana Chandra Jeeva. Page, 78.
    (3) Early South Indian Paleography, University of Madras, T.V. Mahalingam, page 146-148
    (4) & (5) Tamizhar Tharukkaviyal – Page 25. Dr. Ka. Nedunchezian, Tamil University.
    (6) Valluvaththin Veezhchi- Scholar Guna, Page 139.
    (7) Nalayira Thiviya Prapantham, 2055, 3-4



    f.s.gandhi
    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

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