Counter Point in TFM

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Looks like counterpoint is something alien to Indian music(??). Who used it first in Indian music ? Not just tamil.

(I noticed IRs bass guitar only after I bought a good stereo system in the US . I guess that guys music is chest of hidden treasures !!)

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Counterpoint can be heard in Hindhi music as early as 1950s. Sure, it is alien to Indian music.

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Kiruba,
Hard to tell who brought it first...I guess Salil Choudhry,Shanker-Jaikishan or S.D.Burman. You could hear counter-points in their songs released in the 50's

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Kiruba:
From a sometime bass guitarist - NANRI ! IR's bass scores are sometimes more imaginative than the tune itself !

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hi srikanth,

is counterpoint the same as "seconds", "thirds" et al?

just to elaborate, would you consider the phase in Jeans song "poovukkul oLindrukum" where unnikrishnan sings the firsts and the seconds and mixed together sounds good.

one other instance, is the song from the movie "aarilindu arubadu varai" spb-sj duet "kanmaniye kaadal enbadu karpanaiyo" where raja has used seconds in the charanams lavishly.

srikanth! i would like to hear from you further.

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Thanks Sridhar for the Mottamadi song.

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Srikanth..I have the same doubt as Badri Raghavan. Have you heard the counterpoint (I think so) in "Aarodum mannil endrum" from Pazhani. It is a folk song from the movie "Pazhani". TMS and PBS sing the Pallavi and Seergazhi hums in the background.

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Srinath,
I am now tuned to the bass guitar in IRs songs. Its a pity he's got too much of gimmicks in his new songs (KM, Poonthottam). Hopefully, he will stick to his strengths and not swayed by ARRs influence.
(I still noticed some bass guitar in the new songs)

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Hi,
Counter Point is more towards western classical music, It has be composed with proper harmony.
Where us the voice having counter point becomes a harmony or chorus.

Seconds is a kinda of harmony singing. for eg:
if the melody is C D E --- the harmony will be
E F G. These are called seconds (second note from the note), there are 5ths - Arr uses many 5ths.

Counter point is a score that is played over (under) a melody,
In raja kaiyavecha - the second bgm has a 3 part counter point.
1. Violins : plays the lead part,
2. Viola : plays a conter pointer (in half the timing of above)
3. Cello and double bass playes a chromatic scales progression which is twice the melody length.
ie :
if the Melody plays notes as halfs per bar
the 1st counter point plays in 8ths and 16ths per bar,the 2nd counter point - double bass plays 1 full note per bar.

(Also hear, MSV uses counter point in pachaiki muthucharam - an accordian pieces, that crosses over the melody often)

Konjom thala suthal than , try to go thru the webpages on counter point, I will try to post some real audio samples.


Srikanth

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Srikanth's Real Audio Example:

The example you illustrated was from Motta Madi Motta Madi (Anjali). I think most of the songs in Anjali have brilliant counterpoint usage. Anjali Anjali especially.

Neels