Is tamil derived from Sanskrit

[Sudhaama]

In Continuation of the last posting....

The group of Islands presently called as SINGAPORE was originally a Tamilian Settlement. Here too it was partly dry or fallow and partly with dense forests. Ancient Tamilians have developed and enriched it as Agricultural Lands and named the SINGAPURI in Tamil. Subsequently the Malayan King took over from them.

There is also an opinion that the Malayan King who first took over the throne was factually born to a Tamilian-King-father (of that country) and a Chinese Mother (One of the King's several wives)

The present regions of Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia was One unified Tamil- Country, named MALAAYAA ruled over by a Tamil King of Chozha dynasty, under the Chozha Emperor.

[Nedunchezhiyan]

Thiru Srinivasan avargaLae, nanRi!

//While Andaman has become part of India//

The People who inhabited the Andhaman and Namakkavaaram (nAmakkavAram) Islands before the arrival of Chozhar's big naval fleet were actually Thamizhars! These tribals were of 'Choman' or something and you can notice the coincidence between these words Chozhars and Choman and in Thiru Pazha Nedumaaran book, "Thamizhan Izhantha maN" I believe Thiru Pazha Nedumaaran says that these Choman were related to Chozhars or something (I'm not sure please refer to his book). It is possible for these Islands (Andhaman and Namakkavaaram aka Nicober[nicober came from the word Namakkavaaram; denoting to the fact that these people were living nudely or something]) to have been connected with Thamizh Nadu thousands of years ago.

Is it possible for the South Eastern Asia to have been part of Kumarikkandam aka Lemuria? On the map that I have of Kumarikandam it has two big islands separate from Main land. Not only that the Australian Continent was connected to the 'Kumarikandam.' Hence if the map is right then Malaysia and many other South East Asia which are closer to the South of South Asia to have been part of the submerged 'Kumarikandam'[Lemuria].

The names like 'pattani' [That is Thamizh right? like 'pattanik kadalai'?], Madura in Sumatra(probably was named as Mathurai), Manila (The capital of Phillipines), Ayudha (a city in Thailand) must be of Thamizh origin and the mark left by the Thamizhch Chozha Empire.

nanRi, paNivu!

[Nedunchezhiyan]

//KAMBAN //
What is the root of the Word 'Kamban?'

nanRi, paNivu

[Sudhaama]

[quote="Nedunchezhiyan"]

//KAMBAN.... What is the root of the Word 'Kamban?//'

It is purely a Tamil word. "Kambam" means Thoonh (Pillar in English).

One who has come out of a Kambam is "KAMBAN".....

... Similar to the one indulging in "VAMBU" is called "VAMBAN"... and...

.... the One who is indulging in "Kallham"(Theft) is "Kallhan" (Thief)

KAMBA-NAADU was a Sitrarasu under Chozha Kingdom, in the name of Lord Narasimha to whom the King of the Land was much devoted.
That is why Vaishnavites used to denote Kambar as KAMBA- NAATTU- AAZHWAR even now-a-days. Kamban's Birth-lace Thaerazhundhoor is within Kamba- Naadu.

In some other regions too of Tamilnadu, people especially the Farmers, used to erect just a plain and Simple Wooden- Post (Kambu) in their Farm-land, tie a new cloth-piece, adorn with garland and worship it as the God Narasimha, just before commencing the Farmwork anew every year.

[A P MASILAMANI]

Thiru Nedunchezian avarkale! vanakkam.

Thanks for the interesting discussion. to both of you.

Muththirai = muunRu kadal is different from Muththirai = stamping.

The earlier word pertainning to ocean etc was formed from two words: mu = three; thirai = alai, kadal.

The rubber stamp muththirai however is differently formed.


muththuthal = mella muttuthal..

When the contact is hard, Tamil uses da: ( a ta with emphasis) muttu.
When the contact is soft and more pleasant, Tamil softens to tha : muththu> muththam.

muththu + am = muththam.. kiss.
muththu + iru + ai (suffix) = muththirai, to softly impress on the item that is receiving the stamping, keep it for one moment or so and of course, to withdraw the contact, thus causing the impression or stamp as required. In other words, muththi iruththi eduththal.

This is a classic example of words originating differently and ending up as homographs.

mu + thiRai = muththiRai, three important taxes.

The root word muththuthal (muththu) verb. is again said to be different from

muthu (mature ) = ,muththu which comes from chippi. (muthirnthu varuvathu).

The Tamils / Dravidians lived by the sea in the Indian peninsula and as such words pertaining to sea and natural gifts therefrom were from Tamil.

Muththu > muththu + aaram = muththaaram, muththu maalai, aarthal: kattuthal, porunthuthal, arththal = kattikkoLLuthal. ( basic concept : vaLaithal, chuuzthal.) Something that goes round or tied to the neck, so aaram.

muththaaram > mutiara ( now preserved in Malay ) = muththu.
mutu also means quality in Malay. mutu > bermutu, bermutu tinggi.
mutiara > tiara (Persian > Greek > Latin > English).

[Japanese car named TOYOPET TIARA in the 1960s or so ]. I have not checked up the Jap dictionary.

Vanakkam.

[A P MASILAMANI]

// 'anjali' //


Thiru Neduncheziyan avargale!

anjali is actually a corruption of the Tamil compound word akamcheli.

If your heart goes towards your deity, that is akam chelluthal.

akam + chel + i = akamcheli > anjali.

After anjeli became "one" word and people forgot that it was actually a compound word made of two stems and a suffix, they added seithal to it to make out verb-phrase.
Just like muyaluthal> muyal+ chi (suffix) = muyarchi.

Nowadays, even the educated do not say " avan veendiyaanku muyaluvaan", they rather say: avan muyarchi seivaan.

Present usage: keedka muyarchi sei.
Avvayaar: keeLvi muyal.
You go out and tell a ordinary Tamil man: muyal! muyal! vittukoduddaathe!, he will not think of muyarchi, he would think of the animal "muyal!" This means usage is changing and people are adopting new forms of the word forgetting the root.

Western linguists say it is a welcome development. Why?

Hence, the point is: anjali has long lost its meaning as compound and has now taken the shape and significance of a single word.

There are other such words in my consideration; we shall discuss as we proceed.

One other thing: if it is akam chel i , how did that shorten? Any supportive example.

We shall consider another word: akam+ kai = ankai!

akam+ udayaan = aampadayaan.
akam + kaaram = aangaaram!! (Here there is a slight change in meaning in the derivate. Hope you find it interesting also.)

For aankaaram, another etymology can be given; but the purpose here is to understand the evolution of "anjali".

[A P MASILAMANI]

Muththirayar.
TO CLEAR CONFUSION WITH ANOTHER SIMILAR SOUNDING WD.

Thiru Neduncheziyan avarkale!

Please note that "muththarayar" should not be confused with "muththirayar".

muth- tharayar : tharayar means owner of land, three lands, the cheera, chooza and paandiya kingdoms.

muth- thirayar: muunRu kadalilum aatchi seivaar. = the naval power of the peninsular india or slightly lesser area,

Thanks and regards.

[Nedunchezhiyan]

Thiru Srinivasan, Thiru A P MASILMANI thangaL iruvaruKKum enathu nanRikaL!

nanRi, paNivu Thiru Sirnivasan avargaLae for explaining the word 'Kambar!'

[Nedunchezhiyan]

Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!

//anjali is actually a corruption of the Tamil compound word akamcheli.//
Was it a corruption or it became abbrieviated?

//Present usage: keedka muyarchi sei. //
I use 'muyaluthal'(muyala vaendum etc) and 'muyatsi' so I asked someone here about how they would say it

The answer came with muyatsi.


//muth- tharayar : tharayar means owner of land, three lands, the cheera, chooza and paandiya kingdoms.//

the 'ra' in tharayar..is that 'ta?' or the other 'Ra?'
We say 'tharai' (pronounced as thatai with the 'arapu' 'ta'nA) but I have also heard people saying 'tharai' (pronounced as tharai with the other 'ra') ...Is there a connection? Or was it a mispronouncation? Does farmers say 'thataiyaik koththa vaEnum' and 'thaRaiyaik koththa vaEnum?'

nanRi, paNivu Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!

[Sudhaama]

[Quote:"Nedunchezhiyan"]

// I appreciate your gratitude to Bharathiyar.... //

No doubt you have every right to have your own independant opinion contrary to mine about Bharathi. But we have to remember that British were the common Antagonists for the whole of Indian Union of those days including the so called Ceylon. So much more than the Gratitude, it is a matter of our Pride that Bhaarathi in spite of his absolute poverty and trying circumstances, had boldly raised his Voice against the Invaders in those crucial days of terror (unlike thousands of Cowards in high position bowing down as Slaves before a Dictator), as also a Far-sighted Visionary, Selfless crusader, Whole-hearted Patriot, Dedicated poet on Tamil, as also an Invincible Global Human. Tamilians all over the world must be proud of our Man Bhaarathi. If anybody under-rates that Great Human, means that he does not know that intellectual Thyaga-jothi properly.

//I do not wish to make this Literature form into a 'political discussion
Not only that there is no need for such as I am sure that you are aware of many things going in South Asia. The present and the past... The (H)Indian Government involvement in Eezha Thamizhars to the understanding of how the 'Indian Union' was before the Independance etc.//

You say you don't want to indulge in political discussion... whereas subsequently, ... all are your political discussions only..... Even though I have an authentic reply.... I am not interested to discuss here, since out of context..

//.... Not like some guy who went to the Thamizh King and sang, "maNpuLu mApiLLai..." because his wife told him to go and make money, and he got saved by the Head pulavar.... //

Yes. Most of the Pulavars of the ancient days were so, unlike the bold and self-respectful Kambar.

In confession one poor Pulavar sang....

"Pollaan oruvanai naan Nallaay yenraen
Poar muhathai aryaanaip puliyaerhu yenraen
Yellaam arhu vayitruk koozhukkuth thaan.

You may know that there is a Tamil Proverb....

"PIRIKKA MUDIYAADHAVAI ..... PULAMAIYUM VARHUMAIYUM"

Prior to Independance, there was no mention of the word EEZHAM anywhere in India .. but only YAAZHPAANHAM.... in those days. And even in all the Tamil Literatures too we find as ILANGAI only.

Kamba Ramayanam says as ILANGAI- Vaendhan Raavanhan. only....

Tamil-Prabandham says, which MS Subbalakshmi has sung as...

" ILANGAI PUKKU.... AARAAVAMUDHANAI....

The word EEZHAM... suddenly became popular all over Tamilnadu.... When & How?... Tamilians of Tamilnadu came to know just recently... after the British days and expiry of Bharathi... only when Thiru Kuttimanhi was callously tortured and put an end inhumanly.

Anbaarndha Nedunchezhiyan, I am able to realise your hurt heart and wounded feelings... caused despite NO FAULT of you the innocent and good-hearted people.

But in this context... one thing you must remember. During the British days, so to say while Bharathi was alive.... it was called Indian-Union comprising of the regions of the present India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma and Srilanka (Ceylon),under one control of British Viceroy at New Delhi in India. Within this Indian Union people were free to move about anywhere without any restriction. Whereas now, a Tamilian from Tamilnadu is not able to feel free to go to his adjacent Jaffna for meeting his Tamilian brother, whereas he is free to go to Andaman, because both these far off lands fall within one country.!!!

So Bharathi did not consider Yaazh-thamizhar different from the India-Thamizhar. We have to think through his vision of the Time.

Bharathi says.... Vilhaiyaadi varuvoam... Paalam amaippoam.... Veedhi samaippoam... Payir seyhuvoam.... etc...

Whom does he mean behind all these -OHMS? Who are that WE?....

He means all the TAMILIANS including You and I...!!!

Non-Tamilians in India and Srilanka.... he means as.... OTHERS!!!