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Thread: Is tamil derived from Sanskrit

  1. #171
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    To bebeto

    Dear Bebeto,
    Thanks for seeking the clarification.

    mathiththal (Á¾¢ò¾ø) has several meanings.

    mathi(Á¾¢) (verb Å¢¨É¡ø) > mathiththal Á¾¢ò¾ø (noun ¦ÀÂ÷¡ø ). (This is the verb-noun ¦¾¡Æ¢ü¦ÀÂ÷ variety).
    This word Á¾¢ò¾ø has several meanings.
    1. churning, causing something to turn repeatedly so as to soften it. ¸¨¼¾ø, ÍüÈ¢îÍÆüÈ¢ ¸ÊÉÁ¡É «øÄÐ ¸ðÊÂ¡É ¦À¡Õ¨Ç ¦ÁÐÅ¡ì̾ø *
    2. being libidinuous.
    3. estimating, considering, discerning, respecting.
    We here dealt with the first * of the meanings.
    Á¾¢ can also mean moon.
    kadai. (noun). - shop (noun)

    kadai (verb). - churn (verb) ¸¨¼¾ø - churning.
    kadai (noun) = last; e.g. the last of the Sangams ¸¨¼îºí¸õ

    kadai has also other meanings.
    kadaikkaN ¸¨¼ì¸ñ - corner of the eye. (¸¨¼ = µÃõ.)
    ithaz kadai thiRamin þ¾ú ¸¨¼ ¾¢ÈÁ¢ý - smile with the corners of your lips "stretched" . ¸¨¼ = ã¨Ä. ÓÊÔÁ¢¼õ.

    kadaikkutti ¸¨¼ìÌðÊ - last child.
    so on and so forth.

    Kadai has about 11 meanings and it is also prefixed (Óý¦É¡ðÎ ) to other words to produce a variety of other terms with different meanings and connotations.

    kadaippidi ¸¨¼ôÀ¢Ê = follow. À¢ýÀüÚ
    kadaiyam ¸¨¼Âõ = the dance of Indrani. þó¾¢Ã¡½¢ ¿¼Éõ.
    kadaiyayal = penultimate.
    kadaippaadu ¸¨¼ôÀ¡Î = resolution ¾£÷Á¡Éõ (not kadappaadu ¸¼ôÀ¡Î «ýÚ ).

    Here we considered the meanings to churn and last or end only.
    This is not exhaustive. Only relevant meanings are discussed, Grateful for appreciation Bebeto!! Best regards.
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

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  3. #172
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    prachchaaram

    ²§¾Û¦Á¡ý¨È (Å£ðÎìÌ) ¦ÅÇ¢§Â ¦ºýÚ §Àº¢ò ¾¢Ã¢Å¨¾§Â "À¨Èº¡üÚ¾ø" ±ý¸¢§È¡õ. À¨È¢ɡø ´Ä¢ ±ØôÀ¡Áø ¦ÅÚõ Å¡öô§Àø ÀÃôÒŨ¾Ôõ þÐ ÌÈ¢ìÌõ. À¢ýÉ¡Ç¢ø þÐ ¦ÀÕõÀ¡Öõ ¦ÅÚõ Å¡öô§Àì ÌÈ¢ò¾Ð. þó¾î ¦º¡ø¨Äô ÀÂýÀÎòЧš÷ ¦ÅÚõ Å¡öô§À ÁðÎõ ÌȢ쨸¢ø À¨È ÀüÈ¢ ¿¢¨ÉôÀ¾¢ø¨Ä. «¨¾ô ÀüȢ ¾¨¼Ô½÷Ôõ ÁÉò¾¢ø §¾¡ýÚž¢ø¨Ä.

    þô§À¡Ð "ÒÈõ º¡üÚ¾ø" ±ýÈ ¦¾¡¼¨Ãì ¸ÅÉ¢ô§À¡õ. þÐ×õ ¦ÅǢ¢ø ¦ºýÚ §Àº¢ò ¾¢Ã¢Å¨¾ì ¸¡ðÎõ. þ¨¾ ´Õ ¦º¡ýÉ£÷¨Áô ÀÎò¾¢É¡ø, "ÒÈÈõ" ¬Ìõ.

    º¡Èõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø ²ý «í¹Éõ «¨Áó¾Ð? º¡üÈõ ±ýÈøħš «¨Á§ÅñÎõ? º¡Ú+ «õ (Ţ̾¢) = º¡üÈÁøÄÅ¡? ¦º¡øÄ¡ì¸ò¾¢ø þó¾ Å¢¾¢ À¢ýÀüÈô ÀΞ¢ø¨Ä. ±ÎòÐ측ðÞ: «Ú+ «õ = «Èõ. (¾ÕÁõ).

    ÒÈÈõ > ÒÈÃõ > À¢ÃÃõ (§ÀîÍÅÆìÌ).

    ¾Á¢ú ¦Á¡Æ¢ìÌì «Æ¢Â¡Áø ¸¢¨¼ò¾ áø¸û º¢Ä§Å. ¬¨¸Â¡ø ÒÈÃõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø¨Ä áø¸Ç¢ø §¾Êô ÀÂý þø¨Ä.

    À¢ÃÃõ ±ýÈ §ÀîÍî ¦º¡ø, À¢È¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø ¦ºýÚ µ÷ ¯Â÷ó¾ þ¼ò¾¢ø ¯ûÇÐ.

    EthEnumonRai (vIddukku) veLiyE senRu pEsith thirivathaiyE "paRaichARRuthal" enkiROm. paRaiyinAl oli ezuppAmal veRum vAyppEssAl parappuvathaiyum ithu kuRikkum. pinnALil ithu perumpAlum veRum vAyppEchchaik kuRiththathu. in-thach chsollaip payanpaduththuvOr veRum vAyppEchchai maddum kuRikkaiyil paRai paRRi n-inaippathillai. athaip paRRiya thadaiyuNarssiyum manaththil thOnRuvathillai.

    ippOthu "puRam chARRuthal" enRa thodaraik kavanippOm. ithuvum veLiyil senRu pEsith thirivathaik kAddum. ithai oru sonnIrmaip paduththinAl, "puRachchARam" Akum.

    chARam enRa sol En angnganam amain-thathu? chARRam enRallavO amaiyavENdum? chARu+ am (vikuthi) = chARRamallavA? sollAkkaththil in-tha vithi pinpaRRap paduvathillai. eduththukkAddU: aRu+ am = aRam. (tharumam).
    (puNarchchi vithi enpathu iru muzuch choRkaLukku).

    puRachchARam > puRachchAram > pirachchAram (pEssuvazakku).

    thamiz mozikkuk aziyAmal kidaiththa n-UlkaL silavE. AkaiyAl puRachchAram enRa sollai n-UlkaLil thEdip payan illai.

    pirachchAram enRa pEchchuch sol, piRamoziyil senRu Or uyarn-tha idaththil uLLathu.
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  4. #173
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    aakaayam

    ¸¡ö¾ø ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÖìÌô ÀÄ ¦À¡ÕÙñÎ. þó¾î ¦º¡øÖìÌ "´Ç¢ ţ;ø" ±ý¦È¡Õ ¦À¡ÕÙñÎ.

    ¿¢Ä¡ì ¸¡Ôõ §¿Ãõ ÅÃÏõ ±ýÈ À¡¼ø §¸ðÊÕôÀ£÷¸§Ç! "¸¡Ôõ" ±ýÈ¡ø ´Ç¢ ţ͸¢È ±ýÚ ¦ÀÕû.

    ¸¡ö > ¸¡Âõ. sky where the sun and stars shine or emit light.

    ÀÆí¸¡Äò¾¢ø "¸¡Âõ" ±ýÀÐ ¬¸¡Âò¨¾ì ÌÈ¢ò¾Ð. ÀÆí¸¡Ä þÄ츢Âí¸Ç¢ø þÐ ¯ûÇÐ.

    þÐ À¢ý ¬¸¡Âõ ±ýÚ Á¡È¢Å¢ð¼Ð. þ¾üÌì ¸¡Ã½õ, ¸¡Âõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø §ÅÚ ¦À¡Õû¸Ç¢Öõ ÅÕÁ¡¾Ä¡ø, ÌÆôÀõ ¾Å¢÷ì¸, þí¹Éõ Á¡È¢ÂÐ ±ÉÄ¡õ.

    ¬¸¡Âõ > ¬¸¡ºõ.

    þ¾¢ø  ±ýÀÐ º Å¡¸ Á¡È¢ÂÐ. ÀÄ ¦º¡ü¸Ç¢ø þò¾¨¸Â ¾¢Ã¢Ò ÅóÐûÇÐ. ±ÎòÐ측ðÎìÌ ´ýÈ¢ÃñÎ: ¸ÄÂõ > ¸Äºõ (Áñ¸ÄóРŨÉÂôÀÎÅÐ).
    š¢ø > Å¡ºø. §¿Âõ > §¿ºõ. µö verb to think, µö¾ø, µÂ¨É > §Â¡º¨É. (¬öóÐ µöóÐ À¡Ã¡Áø ±ýÀÐ ÅÆìÌ. ¬ø + µÂ¨É = ¬§Ä¡º¨É (.¬ÄÁÃò¾Ê¢ø §Â¡º¨É) þÅü¨Èô À¢ýÒ Å¡öôÒì ¸¢ðÎõ§À¡Ð ŢâòÐ §¿¡ì̧šõ!!

    ¬ ±ýÛõ ÍðÎ, ¦¾¡¨Ä× ÌÈ¢ìÌõ.

    þôÀÊî Í𦼡Ģ §º÷òÐî ¦º¡øÅÐ À¢ü¸¡ÄòÐì ¸¡ÄÅñ½õ ±ýÚõ ÜÈÄ¡õ.


    kAythal enRa sollukkup pala poruLuNdu. in-thach chollukku "oLi vIsuthal" enRoru poruLuNdu.

    n-ilAk kAyum n-Eram varaNum enRa pAdal kEddiruppIrkaLE! "kAyum" enRAl oLi vIsukiRa enRu peruL.

    kAy > kAyam. sky where the sun and stars shine or emit light.

    pazangkAlaththil "kAyam" enpathu AkAyaththaik kuRiththathu. pazangkAla ilakkiyangkaLil ithu uLLathu.

    ithu pin AkAyam enRu mARividdathu. ithaRkuk kAraNam, kAyam enRa sol vERu poruLkaLilum varumAthalAl, kuzappam thavirkka, ingnganam mARiyathu enalAm.

    AkAyam > AkAsam.

    ithil ya enpathu sa vAka mARiyathu. pala soRkaLil iththakaiya thiripu van-thuLLathu. eduththukkAddukku onRiraNdu: kalayam > kalasam (maNkalan-thu vanaiyappaduvathu).
    vAyil > vAsal. n-Eyam > n-Esam. Oy verb to think, Oythal, Oyanai > yOsanai. (Ayn-thu Oyn-thu pArAmal enpathu vazakku. Al + Oyanai = AlOsanai (.Alamaraththadiyil yOsanai) ivaRRaip pinpu vAyppuk kiddumpOthu viriththu n-OkkuvOm!!

    A ennum suddu, tholaivu kuRikkum.

    ippadich chuddoli sErththuch cholvathu piRkAlaththuk kAlavaNNam(fashion) enRum kURalAm.
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  5. #174
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    kampiiram

    ´ÕÅý, ¿¡½¡Áø §¸¡½¡Áø §¿Ã¡¸ ¿¢ýÈ¡ø «Åý ¸õÀ£ÃÁ¡¸ ¿¢ü¸¢ýÈ¡ý ±ýÚ ¦º¡øÅ÷. þó¾î ¦º¡ø¨Ä ¬Ã¡öó¾¡ø «Ð, ¸õÒ + ®Ãõ ±ýÈ þÕ ¦º¡ü¸Ç¢ý ÜðÎ ±ýÚ ¦¾Ã¢Ôõ.

    ¸õÒ§À¡ø §¸¡½¡Áø ¿¢üÀÐ ±ýÚ ¦À¡Õû.

    ®Ãõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø þÕò¾ø ±ýÚ þíÌ ¦À¡ÕûÀÎõ.

    þÕ + «õ = ®Ãõ. (wet ±ýÚ ¦À¡ÕûÀÎõ ®Ãõ §ÅÚ.)

    þÐ ÀÕ + «õ = À¡Ãõ ±ýÀЧÀ¡ýÈÐ. ÀÕò¾ø - ¦À⾡¾ø. ¦ÀâÂÐ ¸ÉÁ¡ö þÕìÌõ ¬¾Ä¡ø À¡Ãõ ±ýÀÐ ¸Éõ «øÄÐ ¸Éò¾ ¦À¡Õð¸¨Çì ÌÈ¢ò¾Ð.

    À¡Ãõ ±ýÀÐ §À¡Ä§Å ®Ãõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÖõ «¨Áó¾Ð.

    ¸õÒ + ®Ãõ = ¸õÀ£Ãõ : ¬Â¢Ûõ À¢Ã¢òÐôÀ¡÷ì¸ ÓÊ¡¾ÀÊ þô§À¡Ð þ¡ø ´Õ¦º¡ø ±ýÈ ¾ý¨Á¨Â (´Õ¦º¡ýÉ£÷¨Á) «¨¼óÐÅ¢ð¼Ð.


    oruvan, n-ANAmal kONAmal n-ErAka n-inRAl avan kampIramAka n-iRkinRAn enRu solvar. in-thas sollai ArAyn-thAl athu, kampu + Iram enRa iru soRkaLin kUddu enRu theriyum.

    kampupOl kONAmal n-iRpathu enRu poruL.

    Iram enRa sol iruththal enRu ingku poruLpadum.

    iru + am = Iram. (wet enRu poruLpadum Iram vERu.)

    ithu paru + am = pAram enpathupOnRathu. paruththal - perithAthal. periyathu kanamAy irukkum AthalAl pAram enpathu kanam allathu kanaththa porudkaLaik kuRiththathu.

    pAram enpathu pOlavE Iram enRa sollum amain-thathu.

    kampu + Iram = kampIram : Ayinum piriththuppArkka mudiyAthapadi ippOthu issol orusol enRa thanmaiyai (orusonnIrmai) adain-thuviddathu.
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  6. #175
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    aachchaaram

    Let's now look at the word "aachchaaram". This word can be split into "aa" and "chaaram".

    One can clearly see that "chaaram" is made up of "chaar" (chaarthal) and -am (suffix). Meaning: "chaarnthiruppathu" or "substance" (uLLiidu),

    As to the first word "aa", it is "aathal" or "aakuthal". Please also see my explanation for the word of "aasiir" before if you have been following.

    Hence aa+chaaram is vinaiththogai variety in grammar and means: "chaaram aavathu". In English, it means custom, practice or usage.

    The roots of this word are Tamil.

    ¬+ º¡Ãõ = ¬îº¡Ãõ. (Å¢¨Éò¦¾¡¨¸).

    º¡ÃÁ¡ÅÐ ±ýÚ ¦À¡Õû.

    ¬+º£÷ ±ýÀ¨¾ ¿¡ý Å¢Ç츢ÔûÇ¾ì ¸¡ñ¸.


    Also see in this thread:

    //Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: how to decide? One example is thabuthaaram.

    tharu + am = thaaram. (one who gives a child to the husband, i.e. a wife)

    thabuthal (verb) = keduthal. ( Verbs are not borrowable from other languages.)

    thabuthaaram - thaaram izantha nilai. This is entirely a tamil terminology and not even a hybrid term. This term is "vinaiththogai".//
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  7. #176
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    Well may be it should be the other way around i.e Sanskrit was derived from TAMIL.
    What is this we know that kal thoondi manthonda kalathil mootha kudi tamil kudi.
    any way english, latin and greek are the offshoot of tamil.For ex. Cattamaran in english and tamil are the same.Any way after all language is a medium of communication.

  8. #177
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    Well may be it should be the other way around i.e Sanskrit was derived from TAMIL.
    What is this we know that kal thoondi manthonda kalathil mootha kudi tamil kudi.
    any way english, latin and greek are the offshoot of tamil.For ex. Cattamaran in english and tamil are the same.Any way after all language is a medium of communication.

    Research by Western philologists show that about 1/3 of Skrt's words are derived from Tamil/Dravidian languages, about 1/3 from Western (Greek, Latin , Avestan and others ) and the last 1/3 either unknown or from Dravidian, Munda and other languages. According to S K Chatterji, Dravidian has influenced Skrt's sound system and several other features.Skrt is a hybrid.

    Yes, languages are just tools for communication!!
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  9. #178
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    Sansrit origin problems

    Western researchers (linguists or philologists) classify Sanskrit as Indo-European and to find out whether a word is Sanskrit or not (disregarding for the moment the differences between Rigkrit, Pali, other related languages and the latter- day Sanskrit ) they look for equivalents in Old Iranian (Avestan etc ) and other Germanic tongues. If there is no equivalent, then it is a Dravidian word. The early Aryan had a limited vocabulary. If you adopt this method, Sivan, Vishnu etc are Dravidian.

    If you do not believe in the Aryan Migration Theory of the Western researchers, then Sanskrit is not Indo-Euro. Then you must say that it grew up in India and the west-related words in it were then "borrowed" by Sanskrit. But all other words which have no relatives in the West may or may not have common orgin with Tamil words or were borrowed from Tamil and other South/Middle/Northern Dravidian languages now living as well as those extinct. Tamil is primitive and older; if roots show a word to be Tamil, then the word is Tamil.

    A word may be said to be Sanskrit because of early documentation and usage and not necesssarily by origin. Some authors prefer this method. In this method, colloquial Tamil usage may become ignored and this is the risk. A colloquial word in one area may have found its way into literary usage in another area of a different language but then the roots of the word will betray its origin. I therefore sometimes think it did not matter whether a word is Tamil or Sanskrit or of other language. The roots are looked for usually with the view to better understanding of history and culture; also for definition of its meaning and proper usage.. This is academic and not for people to boast.

    Note: The above was moved from: Evolution of Saivaism and it's development in Tamil Nadu from the Indian History & Culture Section.
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  10. #179
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    SRS wrote:


    However, nowhere in the Vedas does it say Sanskrit comes from Tamil.
    There is no language by the name of Sanskrit mentioned in Vedas
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  11. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by bis_mala

    SRS wrote:


    However, nowhere in the Vedas does it say Sanskrit comes from Tamil.
    There is no language by the name of Sanskrit mentioned in Vedas
    The word SANSKRIT ... means...

    ... a Reformed-Deed... Refined Act ....Improved Version / Form.

    Such a name as SANSKRIT was given by the Sages...

    ... while the Vedas had been taught to them by Lord Brahma... it is believed.

    While we are discussing the Greatness of Tamil ... in relation to Sanskrit...

    ... let not anybody denigrate that another Great Language of India....Sanskrit...

    ... which has been accepted and highly honoured by the International Linguistic Scholars..

    .. as one more RICH CLASSICAL LANGUAGE originated from India... parallely with Tamil.

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