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Thread: Is tamil derived from Sanskrit

  1. #121
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    Is tamil.....

    Dear Mr.A.P. MASILAMANI,

    We have to find out the root in natural way. Words evolved in natural way by men but keeping their regularity by considering the other similar words before forming the new word.

    Finding out rationality in roots must be based on that.

    We need not be a great tamil scholar but some logical reasoning in finding out the similarities of words under same roots is enough to determine the result.

    'Cheer' is the root word I 've selected based on its meaning and usage in comparative with other similar words.

    Take another example, 'karpu' for lady's virginity/loyalty to her husband.

    Normally tamil pandits take Kal+pu. Kal here means stone. 'Rock like behaviour' and so 'karpu' is the explanation from them.

    I think there is no rationality in this and it seems to be inappropriate and artificial though our grammar allows 'kal' as root.

    Instead if we take 'karu-karpam-karpam-karpu' it is associated with lady molestation based on the pregnancy.

    In that way if we find out root words it will be suitable than any other thing.

    f.s.gandhi
    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

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  3. #122
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    We have to find out the root in natural way. Words evolved in natural way by men but keeping their regularity by considering the other similar words before forming the new word.

    Mr/Ms Ghandhi, we agree on the basics.

    It will be good if you would expound words which have been previously thought of wrongly as Skrt by pointing to their Tamil roots.

    In this thread, only some have been touched upon so far.

    Best regards.

  4. #123
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    Dear Mr/Ms Gandhi,


    Let me discuss with you the word "alamaari" (nilaippeezai). Some of my friends also asked me to see if this is a Tamil word. A researcher : Mayilai Seeni Venkatasamy says it is Portuguese. Following him, Dr Ku Saktivel who wrote " Tamiz Mozi Varalaaru" also says so!

    What are your views?

  5. #124
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    Is tamil....

    Dear thiru A.P. Masilamani,

    The word 'Beero' has latin origin, followed in English and Holland and formed lot of words.

    Unlike Beero, 'almirah/almiroe doen't have other similar words in Portugese is the data I collected.

    Portugese came 300 years ago. But in Thanjore palace 11th century 'alaamari' is found in building structure.

    Hence there should be some word other than 'Pazhai' -a sangam literature word - to specify that thing since tamil has more than one word as a noun for a thing depending on different perceptions originating time to time.

    For example ulli-vengayam-onion, azhi-kadal-samuthiram-sea etc.

    Alampiya madi- alammadi- alamari is the evolution.

    Alamputhal-kai alampu-clean hand-kazhuvuthal-means clean and neat, madi-madam-'sami' madam is there in every house just like 'alamari'. Compare 'mada maligaikal-kooda kopurangal'.

    Clean also means 'arranged'.

    alangu means beauty. Tamil alangu - tamilanangu.

    Alampu's positive connotations specifies clean. Its negative connotation on the other hand is water demoralisation. While cleaning hand water is spent/its configure is disturbed. From this the word "Azhimbu" is formed. Compare 'alampal vidathey'-Dont confuse/threaten others.

    The 'viguthi'- 'ambu' is having connotation with prehistoric period and many words in tamil and other dravidian languages are having ambu as suffix.

    The symbol 'arrow' in sidhu valley script specifies this suffix and Brahmi script also has this symbol.

    When verbs are formed, the associated words had this suffix to specify arrowlike outcome. This specifies also the transformation of people from forest life to agricultural life.

    From this we can detect the oldness of tamil.

    Eventually 'alammari' is tamil word only.

    Vakkalathu,vakkeel, thala etc. are said to be arabic words. But Arabic language got many roots from tamil before 3000 years ago.

    Vakku and thal might be the root of the above words. It might be formed in arabia and came to india but the roots would have been with tamil only as history proves that the first language of men might be tamil.

    We have to analyse in this perspective also when analysing western words.

    f.s.gandhi
    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  6. #125
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    Portugese came 300 years ago. But in Thanjore palace 11th century 'alaamari' is found in building structure

    Mr/Ms Gandhi!

    Exactlly, it is not a Portuguese word as some Tamil teachers believed without proper enquiries. It may be collected and entered into Portuguese dictionary. But that does not make it a P. word.

    Clearly, maadi became maari. It is common change, d>r.

    Another example: madi (die) > mari (die) > mari+aNam(suffix), = maraNam.


    alamaadi > alamaari is right.

    alam has many meanings and one of the meanings is :structure or inbuilt. The other meaning as you said is: alampu (cleaning).


    So, it means "inbuilt maadi" or shelves.

    Inbuilt is a more relevant meaning than clean. Don't you think so?
    Those days, it used to be built onto the wall, as you have pointed out very ably? (Tanjore palace example).


    cheers!!

  7. #126
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    Is tamil......

    Dear Thiru A.P. MASILAMANI,

    Thank you for your information regarding 'alamari'.

    Presently I am staying abroad and so I could not refer other meanings from dictionaries.

    I wrote from my memory.

    I have to bring the available books in india to the present staying.

    Please keep the discussion regaring words going.

    cheers

    f.s.gandhi
    "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi"- a second century literature- means when before stone became sand in earth the tamil tribes were formulated

  8. #127
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    aNhdam, yAzhi

    Thiru A P MASILAMANI avargaLae

    What does aNhdam mean? A Thamizh dictionary define it as 'veLi' or 'ulagam.' Is that equivalent to the English word 'Universe?' Does Thamizh has any words that mean 'Universe?'

    I have recently found out that the Musical Instrument 'Veenai' has the head of the 'Yazhi' and I also have learned that Yazhi was a Thamizh Dragon, just like the Chinese have their dragon 'Chinese Dragon.' Yazhi helped Thamizhars or something. Would you be kind in providing more information regarding 'Yazhi?' The City of YaazhppANham from Eezham, how did it gain the name? The Yazh in YaazhppANham, does it mean the Isaikk karuvi 'Yazh' where Veenai came from? Or the Thamizh Dragon?

    nanRi
    paNhivu

  9. #128
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    Re: aNhdam, yAzhi

    I have recently found out that the Musical Instrument 'Veenai' has the head of the 'Yazhi' and I also have learned that Yazhi was a Thamizh Dragon, just like the Chinese have their dragon 'Chinese Dragon.'
    Is this the same as the yALi (யாளி), which has the tusks and trunk of an elephant and the face and body of a lion? There are carvings of yALi-s on a number of temples in Tamil Nadu.

  10. #129
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    Nedunchezhiyan

    I do not know,

    Is it yALi or yAzhi? ????

  11. #130
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    Re: aNhdam, yAzhi

    ]
    Dear Thiru ."Nedunchezhiyan"

    // What does aNhdam mean? A Thamizh dictionary define it as 'veLi' or 'ulagam.' Is that equivalent to the English word 'Universe?' Does Thamizh has any words that mean 'Universe?'//

    Yes .. “Anhdam” ( Tamil-word) = UNIVERSE.

    Anhda-Velhi = SPACE.

    // I have recently found out that the Musical Instrument 'Veenai' has the head of the 'Yazhi' and I also have learned that Yazhi was a Thamizh Dragon, just like the Chinese have their dragon 'Chinese Dragon.' Yazhi helped Thamizhars or something.//

    In the ancient Tamil-Literature we find the mention of Word YAAZH only… (Kuzhal inidhu YAAZH inidhu…. :-- Thirukkuralh) meaning the so called Veenai in other Indian-Languages. We also come to know that there were 12 varieties of YAAZH (Veenai) with different names and shapes… as Makara-Yaazh, Sakoda-Yaazh, Madhura-Yaazh…. and so on.

    “Yaalhi” Animal is diferent from the Musical-Instrument“Yaazh” “Yaalhi” was a peculiar shaped Animal … the shape of which we find in the Tamil-nadu Temple Sculptures … as a Combination of Lion and Elephant Heads….Perhaps such a Dragon-shaped Animal existed once upon a time similar to the Annam-bird… resembling a Duck… about which too we find in various Tamil-Literatures including Naidatham of Puhazhaendhi-p-Pulavar. Both these creatures even though do not exist now… we find them in the Sculptures and Ajantha-Paintings too.

    //The City of YaazhppANham from Eezham, how did it gain the name? The Yazh in YaazhppANham, does it mean the Isaikk karuvi 'Yazh' where Veenai came from? Or the Thamizh Dragon?//

    Paanhar = Isai-K-Karuvi-Meettupavar (Kalaignjar);

    Yaazh-Paanhar = Yaazh-meettupavar (Yaazh-Kalaignjar).

    During the days of Chera-Chozha-Pandya Kingdoms… Chozha-Kingdom was the largest in area… with Tamil-Speaking people only… (domiciled from the the main Chozha land of Kaveri-Delta regions of the present Tamilnadu) covering the whole region of the present Srilanka, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Andaman-islands.

    Those erstwhile Forest-arteas unihabitable and uncultivable regions had been developed by means of the hard toil of Tamilians of those days.

    A part of such a Chozha-Kingdom was the Island… presently “Yaazh-Paanham”.

    Such a name it got … since the Land was gifted to the YAAZH- PAANHAR Royal-Artist on Yaazh. It continued to form part of the Chozha- Kingdom-Regions then... as a Sub- Kingdom under the Guard and Protection of the Chozha-Emperor... and his subsequent Dynasty.

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