Is tamil derived from Sanskrit

[Nedunchezhiyan]

//A Tamil teacher has coined these words:

meter - niittar
ton - sumaiyam
kilogram - pannuuRi.

See whether they sound good whilst I search for words that might have been put out by the TN govt or other lexicographers. //

nanRi Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae. I will pass on this information. I went to the Thamizh online source www.tamilvu.org or something. I searched for the word 'ton' and ended up with some result spelling 'ton' in Thamizh. That site is the Thamizh Virtual University or something.
I don't know if there was a way to get the information from there...anyway I got dissapointed by the result. I think one book which was about "Chozhars" had all these scales on the back. Chozhars had "Thamizh aLavu" for various things and they were amazing but I forgot the name of the book...that book was about "Chozhars." Sadly it didn't explain the root of the word 'Chozhar' like you explained and gave other possibilities.

Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae

'it' from Thamizh 'ithu' and the other roots you gave for Indo European 'he' 'she' etc is very INTERSTING!

Did the word 'kUlam' come from the word 'kU' which mean 'World'?

Season Greeting to you and to other Thamizhars!

nanRi, paNivu

[Nedunchezhiyan]

Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae!

These are the informations I have found on the net.

TON:
[Middle English tonne, a measure of weight. See tun.]
[Middle English, from Old English tunne, possibly of Celtic origin.]
http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=di...3Dton%26r%3D67

The website 'www.dictionary.com' indicate that the word 'ton' to have come from the word 'tun.' I think there is a connection between that root 'tun' to the Thamizh word 'thUn' which mean pillar.

I referred to a Thamizh dictionary I have (a small dictionary). Under the leter 'thU' these words are given which I believe could be equivalent to the word 'tun' or atleast has some connection interm of the definition of 'ton' and perhaps of the root of the word 'ton'.

thU:

thU = [one definition is] valimai (strong)

thUkku = thonkum poruL, oru nirai aLavu, nirai kOl

thUNiththal = paruththal (growing big...)

perhaps the word thUkku is the equivalent of the English vocab 'ton.'


Now the word 'METER' (measurment).

This is the definition the website 'www.dictionary.com' provide.

Meter
[French -mètre, from Greek metron, measure. See m-2 in Indo-European Roots.]
{m-2 was typed as m with an e above the line but probably text error here}

[Middle English, from Old English meter, and from Old French metre both from Latin metrum, from Greek metron, measure, poetic meter. See m-2 in Indo-European Roots.]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=meter

When I looked at the definition above and saw that in Greek it meant 'measure' by the word 'metron.' I suddenly came to the conclusion of calling 'meter' as 'aLavi.' Then I searched in the website www.tamilvu.org and to my suprise they had the SAME DEFINITION! However I think these people haven't done alot of research! aLavi may not suit for the word 'meter' since measuring something is called 'aLavi' and it'd be difficult perhaps. Anyhow they also had 'pAeraLavi' for macro meter.

meter - aLavi
Ü÷õ¤
http://www.tamilvu.org/slet/servlet/...2Fo3300001.htm



KILO from Kilogram etc:

Kilo
[French, from Greek khlioi, thousand. See gheslo- in Indo-European Roots.]
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kilo

I do not know the root of the word 'gheslo.' It could be from Thamizh. Anyway the given definition is clear that kilo means 'thousand' and thats where that prefix came from. Hence we should use an abbrieviation or a word that means thousand in Thamizh.


Gram:
Gram
[French gramme, from Late Latin gramma, a small weight, from Greek, something written, small weight. See gerbh- in Indo-European Roots.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gram

Gram here means a 'small weight' and again I do not know the source of the word 'gerbh' and that could be a Thamizh word. The small weight could be weight of an atom or an electron or a photon etc. However Thamizhp pulavars also referred 'kaduku' to a small weight although some others referred 'aNu' as a small weight (I do not konw if such argument took place). Nevertheless we should consider a small weight interm of its use and perhaps we could consider any grains or something that weigh small and measure up to 1 gram and which belongs to the Thamizh Community and which have been around with Thamizhars for a long time.

Perhaps 'kaduku,' or 'eLLu' or something. Maybe we could call Kilogram as 'aAkadu' taking the aA from aAyiram and shortening 'kaduku' to 'kadu' if we can by the Thamizh Language Structure.


//A Tamil teacher has coined these words:

meter - niittar
ton - sumaiyam
kilogram - pannuuRi. //

Let others consider these words and post their views.

nanRi Thiru A P MASILMANI avargaLae, paNivu

[Nedunchezhiyan]

Thamizhar ellorukkum, iniya puththANdu vAzhththukkaL

[Nedunchezhiyan]

Iniya pongal vAzhththukkaL!!!

[TamilenUir]

Mr. Masilamani,

I had read your earlier posts on Sugar (Chini). You had mentioned the work 'Chini' is Tamil origin. The other Tamil word 'Sakkarai' for sugar is it Indo-European of origin, as it is close to German Zukkar/ Eng Sugar??? or it the other way the Tamil word for Sugar is the root word for the IE languages.
I had this doubt as I 'am not sure about the Origin of Sugar itself, was it originally an Asian item that was later known to the west or was it the other way.. Pls enlighten me on this...

Thanks

[Sudhaama]

"TamilenUir"]

//.... earlier posts on Sugar (Chini).... mentioned the word 'Chini' is Tamil origin.//

The word CHEENI is not a Tamil-word... but added to Tamil Vocabulary as a "Thisai-Chol"... Its origin is yet being disputed whether Asian or Europian.

The True Tamil word for Sugar... so called Cheeni.. is... AKKAARAM...

... which word is profusely seen in the ancient Tamil-Literature too.

The Narasimhaswamy at Sholingapuram has been addressed by Alwars in Tamil... as ..."Akkaara- Kaniyae" .

// The other Tamil word 'Sakkarai' for sugar is of Indo-European origin, as it is close to German Zukkar/ Eng Sugar??? or it the other way the Tamil word for Sugar is the root word for the IE languages.//

The Origin for the Word Sugar... is the Portugese Word.. "CURGAR" meaning Sweet in that Language.

//I had this doubt as I 'am not sure about the Origin of Sugar itself, was it originally an Asian item that was later known to the west or was it the other way.. Pls enlighten me on this...//

Sugar was originally manufactured at a place called "ASKA" in Philippines, where the Sugar-cane growth was very plenty in those days.

That is why most of the Indian people used to call the Sugar as ASKA or Aska-Sarkkarai in Tamil during the British days.

Even though Sugar-cane so called Karumbu in Tamil was not new to India... since grown for more than a thousand years... Indians were only manufacturing ... Gurh / "VELLAM" out of it and Not the Sugar which product was a new Introduction to the Indian market by the Portugese Traders... prior to British entry into India.

History says... that during Pre-British-period... the Overseas trade with India... by Exports and Imports... was carried out prominently by the Persian and Portugese Traders...

Hence we are able to have lot of Persian and Portugese words mixed up in all the Indian Languages including Tamil, like

.. Sari,... Jannal... Chummaadu... Dhinusu...Kadudhaasi,... etc.

Portugese Traders introduced and encouraged the growth of Sugar-cane and further the manufacture of Sugar-products in India... which they exported to Europian countries, where Sugar-cane cannot grow.

Till then the Europians were manufacturing Sugar out of Beet-Root .. which was costlier as also of limited Quantity unable to meet the High quantum of Western Market-demand

Not only Sugar but also Chilly, Tobacco, Coffee, Rubber, Tea, Chocolate(Cocoa)... etc. were the new Introductions by these Traders to India for Growth and Manufacture of End-products... for their Trade.

[Idiappam]

"TamilenUir"]


The Origin for the Word Sugar... is the Portugese Word.. "CURGAR" meaning Sweet in that Language.

Arunagirinathar used the word 'Sarkkarai' in his Thirupugazh! "pakkarai vichitharamani ...... Sarkkarai parupudan nei...."

Arunagiri lived before the portugese era (around the 1400s).

The botanical name for Sugar Cane - Saccharum spp. - of medieval latin origin - resembles 'Sarkkarai'.

If the word 'Sarkkarai' is of non Tamil origin - introduced from IE languages, why is that word (or similar words) does not exixt in other north Indian languages?

[TamilenUir]

// If the word 'Sarkkarai' is of non Tamil origin - introduced from IE languages, why is that word (or similar words) does not exixt in other north Indian languages? //

Hello Idiappam,

I think in Hindi Sugar is called by 'Shakkar' which seems to be very very colse to the IE word (Sugar in Eng and Zukkar in German)...

[Idiappam]

Let's not include Hindi here - that has an heavy influence of Arabic! What is Bengali for 'sugar' - just curious!

[Sudhaama]

Mr. Idiappam....

I am already well-known to you... from the Old Hub... Are you able to Recognize me?

Here is my Reply to your Questions.

//Arunagirinathar used the word 'Sarkkarai' in his Thirupugazh! "pakkarai vichitharamani ...... Sarkkarai parupudan nei.... Arunagiri lived before the portugese era (around the 1400s).//

Although Thiruppuhazh is a Divine-Recitation... Linguists Scholars assert ... that it contains lot of Sanskrit words alongside some Thisai- Chorhkalh also... Such alien words from Portugese, Persian and other Languages too are admixed in this high Tamil-Literature... they say. But I don't remember now the specific Examples to Quote.

Saint Arunagirinathar's Period is highly disputed by Historians... Most of them convincingly put forth that his period ... must about just 600 years back.... During that period Tamilians used highly Sanskrit-mixed Tamil as of Swami Arunagirinathar.

//The botanical name for Sugar Cane - Saccharum spp. - of medieval latin origin - resembles 'Sarkkarai'.//

What you Quote is for Sugar-Cane but not for Sugar itself.

In Telugu... the "Sugar-cane" is called.... "CHERUKKU" .... Hindi and almost N.I : "GANNA".

Sugar is called SHAKKAR....in almost all the North-Indian Languages... from the Arabic-Root.... since the Sugar was introduced to Middle-East too.... and so the influence of Purtugese Root might have set its foot there too.

//If the word 'Sarkkarai' is of non Tamil origin - introduced from IE languages, why is that word (or similar words) does not exixt in other north Indian languages?

//I think in Hindi Sugar is called by 'Shakkar' which seems to be very very colse to the IE word (Sugar in Eng and Zukkar in German)...//

//Let's not include Hindi here - that has an heavy influence of Arabic!//

// What is Bengali for 'sugar' - just curious!//

In Bengali, Oriya and Assamese... Sugar is called "CHEENI"

In Tamil it is also called so in the Spoken Language... because... in the latter days after Persians shifted their Trading activities more towards South America, Africa and Europian Countries... due to higher trade prospects and Profits... Chinese flooded the Indian Market.... concentrating more in Madras (Chennai).... resulting in the Main Bazaar Road of the City was called...

China-Bazaar Road..... presently NS.Bose Road... from Pookkadai to Parrys.

Since they had exploited and monopolised Tamilian market with their product... it was named as CHEENI...in Tamil too.... Two Names for one.

Same case with the Eastern part of India too... during that Time.

In the Sothern part of Tamilnadu Cheeni is different from Sarkkarai.
Cheeni ... = ... Sugar -- Sarkkarai. = Powdered Gudh/ Jaggery ( Vellam )

However... the Botanical Name for Sugar-cane... resembling... "Sarkkarai" ... is also a Good-point.