what point???
Let us keep the rule same for everybody!
what point???
Let us keep the rule same for everybody!
I read a long time ago that Gandhi took the term "Harijan" from the term "Thirukular" which Ramanuja coined a thousand years earlier, in an attempt to eradicate the humiliating overtones that were associated with the more usual "caste names". Gandhi was acquainted with the teachings of Ramanuja, so it's certainly a possibility.Originally Posted by Lambretta
I thot he coined the name 'Harijan' to address them?Gandhi used the term scheduled caste for politely addressing these people becuase they are afraid of telling their own caste names in the public.
aravindhan and lamby!
My point is, addressing them SC/harijan is civilized. I think gandhi did call them harijans and I am not sure who first called them SC. That point is well taken
Why an ex ias officer have the pleasrue of using such SLURS here???
Have you read other articles of him about
-deleted-A hidden call for united global Hindu awakening!
V SUNDARAM
'Hindus of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your self-adorned chains'
Thanks to the declared Congress policy of pseudo-secularism after independence, a policy which gives a special and extraordinary status above the laws of India to the so-called religious minorities and only a third-class status to the Hindu majority. The Hindus have been reduced to a hopeless position of Plebeians versus the Muslim and Christian Patricians, to a position of serfs versus the Muslim and Christian lords and to a position of journeymen versus the Muslim and Christian guild masters. Behind this all looms is Congress president Sonia Gandhi. To cite only one telling example, in Arjun Singh she has a pan-Islamic HRD Minister who is committed to the virulent philosophy of not allowing any reference to things and matters Hindu in all the NCERT text books.
Amidst this encircling and enlarging pseudo-secular and pan-Islamic gloom, there comes the statement from Sri Ashok Pande, chairman of the Hindu Personal Law Board from Lucknow. He has announced a cash reward of Rs 101 crores for the person who beheads painter Maqbool Fida Hussain who has made a nude painting of Bharat Mata, apart from making objectionable portraits of Hindu Gods and Goddesses. He has added: 'I will give Rs 101 crores to anyone who beheads the painter, but if this supari is accepted by Haji Yakub Qureshi, the UP Minister, who has made a similar announcement for the head of a Danish cartoonist, then the reward amount will be an additional Rs.51 crores'. By his 'bold' and 'no-less heroic' statement, he has made it clear to that Minister of Mulayam Singh Yadav's government Haji Yakub Qureshi and all others cast in the same mould that the silent and tolerant Hindus of India can no longer be treated as heads of sheep and cattle who can be dispersed at will by the threats of Muslim marauders, in secret or open collaboration with all the pseudo-secular political parties in India.
Yet another warrior who has heroically attempted to beat the terrorist record of Haji Yakub Qureshi is Jashubhai Patel from Gujarat. He has announced an award of one kg gold to anyone who would 'gouge' out the eyes and cut out the right hand thumb of MF Hussain for having blasphemously painted Hindu Gods and Goddesses and Bharat Mata in an obscene manner.
No one can endorse the lawless stand taken by these two emotionally upset Hindu leaders. At the same time it cannot be denied that the Hindus of India owe a deep debt of gratitude to Ashok Pande and Jashubhai Patel for creating a climate of awakening and fearlessness among the emotionally battered and shattered Hindus all over the world. This message will surely be taken as the beginning of a moral fight for right against all sorts of terrorism patronised, nurtured and nursed by all the pseudo-secular elements in India and the world. Terrorism is like a tiger. We cannot control it by attempting to climb from its back. By doing so, we will only end up by being in its mouth. Terrorism must be countered by moral courage all the time and physical courage only for the purpose of self-protection whenever and wherever necessary.
I am saddened by the political theory accepted by the UPA government which views all acts of anti-national Muslim terrorism as 'secular' and all acts of heroism and bravery in self-defence by the Hindus as 'communal', 'obscurantist' and 'superstitious'. Thanks to men like Arjun Singh, Ram Vilas Paswan, Lallu Prasad Yadav, Sonia Gandhi and the like, we are indeed living in very civilised times!
I would not use the word "Filthy" for obvious reasons, but I agree with your general assessment.
On the main topic, one can contrast Periyar's use of rationalism to oppose casteism - necessarily involving trying to dismantle Hinduism - with Narayana Guru's "Ezhava Shiva" approach - involving trying to reform Hinduism. Neither is wrong in itself, but one must also keep in mind that the approach of reforming Hinduism from within has been tried before in Tamil Nadu. Ramanuja's attempted anti-casteist "Vainavam" is perhaps the best example, but there are others. None of them proved sustainable: a few generations after the founder's death, people went back to their old practices and prejudices. I also wonder how suited the "Ezhava Shiva" approach is to being applied to the emancipation of not just one relatively cohesive caste, but a broad range of castes which also had their own issues as between themselves.
I do not know how things were in Tiruvallikeni in the 1950s and how much they have changed now, but coming as I do from rural Thanjavur, I find it very hard to understand how people can say Periyar's movement was a failure. As a fairly orthodox Hindu myself, I find Periyar's anti-Hinduistic polemic very painful, and I simply cannot agree with his agenda of dismantling Hinduism. But it changed the lives of so many for the better that it cannot be condemned. I do feel that Periyar has shaken Tamil Hinduism out of its complacency sufficiently that it is now actually capable of ridding itself of its uglier sides. I would quite like that to happen. Unfortunately, I don't think people like V. Sundaram are particularly helping us move in that direction.
I am not a supporter of periyaar and I never ever read his books.
K V criticism about EVR should definitely be appreciated.
But I dont understand why Sundaram needs KV to talk about "periyaarana"???
Why cant he take the "periyaarana" and crticize it???
He can himself comment on that BOOK!
He does not have to USE a young ignorant SC to strengthen his ideas.
Tell me why does he do that??????
Go through his other articles about great kshatriyaas part 1, part 2, part 3. You will get a better picture about this sympathizer, Sundaram!
Now he is talking about intellectual Kshatriya!!!!
An intellectual Kshatriya-III!
An intellectual Kshatriya - II
An intellectual Kshatriya - I
http://newstodaynet.com/2006sud/06marsun.htm
How would you defend, if I say, Sundaram cares more about Hindus (may be the Kshatriyass) rather than Indians???
he is a proud Hindu rather than an Indian!
To me filthy is not as bad as addressing people as parayan and parachy as our Sundaram does (of course from EVR's book).
You cant realize that becuase you are not the one who belongs to that category. You missed your chance to enjoy that "degree" in the holy Hinduism!
Oh, people like Sundaram are doing a far better job of destroying Hinduism than Periyar ever did. One doesn't really need to read very much by them to realise that.
This is, of course, a very valid point which is well taken. It's stupid to comment on something one hasn't experienced. Time to shut up!
aravindhan: Good to see you back to inject some sanity here. You are right. You should have lived in Thanjavur district in the 40s and 50s to know what it was like for a dalit, called ADs (Adi dravidas). I lived in Tanjore dt during the 40s and 50s. I saw a lot I did not like. The ADs were not allowed to wear a veshti or sandals. They had to be seen in loin cloth. If you touched them you had to take a shower drenching your head and soak your clothing in water. They were not allowed to go to school. They were not allowed to drink from the well used by other castes. If they wanted water they had to drink from their cupped hands while the upper caste man/woman poured water. If they went to a tea stall they had a separate counter where they had to clean the glass tumblers they used themselves. They were not allowed to enter temples. That was what EVR was fighting against and he succeeded to some extent. Some of his tactics were unacceptable. As you said cleansing Hinduism from within was not successful. C.P.Ramasamy Ayyar and Rajaji tried and did not have much success.
People who post here are probably in their 20s and 30s and would not know anything about the Tanjore of the 40s and 50s. They are also probably city bred.
Please visit this thread often to enlighten people. This thread reminds me of equal opportunity and affirmative action in the US which was opposed by whites initially. Remember John Kennedy sending federal troupes to get a black admitted into a college in the south. It has been 40 years and now you see more blacks,hispanics and native Americans in the work force. Of course, the unintended beneficiaries are Indians, Pakistanis and othe Asians.
I very rarely participate in this section for a number of reasons. I hope you continue to visit this section.
" I think there is a world market for may be five computers". IBM Chairman Thomas Watson in 1943.
RajRaj sir thanks for your posts. It surely tells us that we are living in a different world today.
One of the things about the movement IMO that changed the way we look at other people beyond their affiliations is the change of our names. Its only in Tamilnadu, we have initials of our dad’s name instead of the traditional caste name as a surname. No one for example with a list of names can have preconceived notions without even looking at them. Sure things have changed, but there is a long way to go yet.
The caste system is very powerful and crucial to the existence of Hinduism and may be that’s the reason why people with extreme feelings don’t want to let it go, Survival instincts I guess. Most of the civilizations that is tagged as ‘One of the Great’ all had slavery. It seems like a staple for a civilization to flourish. As you have said yourself, Americans not long had slavery. And Indian civilization is not very different. But the main difference is that we had ‘UNTOUCHABILITY’.
Even today Rice’s and Powell’s rise to power is considered as an achievement to the African-American community. Much news is made when an A-A does something that is done by their community for the first time something similar to what happened when R K Narayan was made the President.
I don’t know much about EVR, so cannot comment about that.
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