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Thread: charu nivedita's comments on veda

  1. #41
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber devapriya's Avatar
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    Vedas

    Vedas do not have Caste Vedas do not tell a word on Caste, but a Passing reference on Varna in Purushaskuktham.

    Varna System is clsassfication under the type of Profession held and it was not by Birth as per Vedas.

    One Who Seves and God and does on behalf of Others with Vedas- Brahmins
    One who serves King and Kingdom and can use Sword & Arms Kshyatrias
    One who does Agriculture or trade in Agri Goods is Vysias
    One who remain as helper for all the Three Sutras
    In Mathematics Formulae is translated as Sutrams and Sutras are not Untouchables and they can come up in to the Ladder by doing other works and I put these from Maxmuller through Gilbert Slater who all patronoised Dravidain mYTHS

    Certainnly Casteism in Hinduism is not a Pleasant one and I quote GILBERT Slater- who gives from Maxmuller, and I Quote from Tamil Translation by PanmozhiPulavar Appadurai.
    Ţ Ȣ 츢 Ө žǢ ƨ¡ Ǣ ڸȾ? "" æĢ Ţġ. ﺢ š Ө ž Ǣ 򾨸 . ħ â Ƣ Ĩ ç; š, ո Ţ ; ¢ 즸 Ũ ӨȨ¡; 򾨸 š Ǹ Ţ ¡ Ȣ¢ 򾸡á 츢 ; Ȣ . м , Ǣ Ǣ Өȸ ȣ¡; ɢ Ȣ Ǣ¡ Ȣ¡; .. ... ܼ ¡. â Ƣ Ţ ţâ, ɢ ŢǢ ơ Ƣ Ө â Ȣ . çš, ŢŸ §š м ¢ â ġ âŢ츧š š ܼ ¡. ¡ ž ̧ ." Quote frm Maxmuler â áŢ Ҕ- , .Ш. 40,41.


    Now Tholkapiyam has in depth of Varna System. It denies Education to the Fourth, Fourth cannot enter trade at any time etc., Sangam Literature names many Sub-castes even such as Irular, Villiar, Pallar, Vettuvar, Aayar, barathavar, maravar, kuravar etc., Sangam Lit. mentions even Many Gotras of Brahmins such as Kasiyaba, Vathula, Aathreya, Koutinya, Kousika etc, and as per Vedic practice calling them Twice Born etc.,
    A Friend in another Forum even gave the Etymology of Caste in Tamil Sathi:


    //saar - saarthi - saathi - >>> jaati.

    only tamil explains because it contains the root word "saar" or "chaar".

    saarthi - saathi = saarnthathu.

    saarthiyaar > saarnthavar. this phrase occurrs in tolkaapiyam.//

    Any body taking a Athesitic stage can attack Old Literature, such as Kavignanar Kanimozi(Daughter of M.Karunanithi), who came in support of Freedom of Expression that Sangam Literature such as Kurnthogai and Narrinai has lot of Pre-martial Sexual relationships and Charu Nivedita supported this. Bible has extensive Racism even practiced by Jesus, but that is not discussed always but ..
    We have a Pratice of Telling our Problems to Religion and Missionaries have taught like that Barahiar condemens it in his Short ARTICLE called
    ¡ Ǣĸ ç Ӿ Ө. Ţ . Ӿġ, Ȣ â. â측Ţ áŢ Ȣ â, Ţ ú 򧾺 Ȣ â â Ģ, â ¢ Ȣ 򾢧 ž ָȸ. 󨾸 ¢ θȡ , â (츢, ǡ Մ ¢ġ ) и Ţ š ָȡ. Ө â׸Ǣ Ǧġ θȡ. Ȣ âǡ Ţ. Barathiyar, Ψ-

    So Vedas which as per Panmozi Arignanar Jaggannatha Raja- in his Book Tamilum Pragiruthamum published by TN Govts. International Tamil Studies- dated 5000-1000BCE, has much superior Science and Maths etc., is ignored.

    Let us value Literaure for its positives please.

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  3. #42
    Junior Member Admin HubberNewbie HubberTeam HubberModerator HubberPro Hubber anticrap's Avatar
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    1) That Persons of so-called "Brahman Race" or "Brahman Varna" were Intellectually Superior to Other Races or Varnas.

    The Brahmans' dogma of the racial superiority of the Brahman Varna or Race (`varna'=`color' or `race' in Sanskrit) was fully elucidated in the Lawbook of Manu, the standard law-book of Hinduism :

    " Of created beings the most excellent are said to be those which are animated,; of the animated, those which subsist by intelligence; of the intelligent, mainkind, and of men, the Brahmanas."
    -- [ Manu.I.96 ]
    (2) That the Brahmans were a `Master Race' and Thus Accordingly Entitled to Subjugate, Exploit, Exterminate or Dominate other `Races' (`varnas') or Peoples.

    This doctrine was explicitly stated in the Manu-Smrti :

    "As the Brahmana sprang from (Brahman's) mouth, as he was the first-born, and as he possesses the Veda, he is by right the lord of this whole creation ."
    -- [ Manu.I.93 ]
    The logical consequence of the `master race' dogma was the right of Brahmins to dominate over other `inferior' poples and to acquire their territories. This is disclosed by several statements in `sacred' Brahmanist texts, which state that the entire Universe belongs by birthright to the Brahmins :

    " A Brahmana, coming into existence, is born as the highest on earth, the lord of all created beings, for the protection of the treasure of the law."
    " Whatever exists in the world is, the property of the Brahmana; on account of the excellence of his origin the Brahmana is, indeed entitled to all ."
    -- [ Manu.I.99-100 ]
    "The wealth that is stolen by the Brahman tends to well being in the next life ; the wealth that is given to the Sudra tends to Hell." (Sukraniti)
    -- [ Tirth.118 ]
    " When a learned Brahmana has found treasure, deposited in former (times), he may take even the whole (of it); for he is the master of everything."
    " When the king finds treasure of old concealed in the ground let him give one half to Brahmanas and place the (other) half in his treasury."
    -- [ Manu.VIII.37-38 ]
    " that (money which is given) to Brahmanas is declared to be an imperishable treasure for kings."
    -- [ Manu.I.82 ]
    In addition, the confiscation of properties of women and Sudras was openly legalised by Vaishnava scriptures :
    A wife, a son, and a slave, these three are declared to have no property; the wealth which they earn is (acquired) for him to whom they belong.

    Thus, the unlawful confiscation of the properties of non-Brahman races was justified and fully sanctioned in the holy scriptures of Hinduism (or Brahmanism), and this act glorified. The Mahabharata states,
    "The son of Ita then inquired: Tell me Vayu, to whom the earth, with its wealth, rightfully belongs to the Brahman or the Kshatriya? Vayu replied: All this whatever exists in the world, is the Brahmans property by right of primogeniture : this is known to those who are skilled in the laws of duty. It is his own which the Brahman eats, puts on, bestows. He is the chief of all the castes, the first-born and the most excellent. Just as the woman when she has lost her (first) husband takes her brother-in-law for a second; so the Brahman is the first resource in calamity; afterwards another may arise (Mahabharata)."
    -- [ MBh.Saptaparvam, verse, 2755 ] [ cited in Sup ]
    Summarising the situation, Swami Dharma Theertha wrote in his classic `History of Hindu Imperialism',
    "Probably no other class of persons in any society ever combined in themselves all these advantages so exclusively as the Brahmans. It is equally doubtful if any other aristocratic class has ever exercised their privileges to the detriment of the common people so unscrupulously and for so long a period as these Brahman priests."
    -- [ Tirth.113-114 ] [ cited at Sup ]
    He further observes,
    " No imperial power ever imposed on a weaker people a more ruthless and soul-destroying domination than the Brahmans did on the rest of their fellow citizens, and no race of superior men ever arrogated to themselves such haughty supremacy and false greatness as they have."
    -- [ Tirth.163-164 ] [ Sup ]

  4. #43
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber devapriya's Avatar
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    VEDAS & Manusmiriti

    Friends,

    Anticrap has given few quotes from Manusmirithi

    As I have said Vedas belong to BCE5000 -1000. and these are Sruthis. Until Valmiki Ramayan and Mahabharat are PrePanini pre 5th Cen. BCE.

    Manusmirithi is post Panini and please differenciate.

    Tholkappiyam denies education to 4th Varna and Classifies duties of Brahmins, Kshyathrias and Vysias more clearly.

    Please look at the Development of Agri based Social Growths and Non-Brahmin High Caste Hindus are the Major Benefaciaries of the Caste System, and was developed for them.

    Devapriya

  5. #44
    Senior Member Senior Hubber dsath's Avatar
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    Your datings for various events in different threads are highly inconsistent mate.

  6. #45
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    There is no evidence that Tolkappiyam denied education to anyone.
    The purpose of the treatise is to lay down rules for the Tamil language; not to grant or take away anyone's rights.
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  7. #46
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    Friends,

    solomon wrote :"Anticrap has given few quotes from Manusmirithi "
    we all have eyes we can see that.

    solomon wrote : "As I have said Vedas belong to BCE5000 -1000. and these are Sruthis. Until Valmiki Ramayan and Mahabharat are PrePanini pre 5th Cen. BCE. "
    There is no scientific evidence that any of these documents happened before Indus valley civilization, even after the demise of the indus valley, the prakrits were not well developed so sanskrit/vedic was still not created. Sanskrit was created well after Paninni (ie., after 5 BCE accordinig to you) because Paninni gave the grammer for the language called 'chandasa' later the artificial language sanskrit adopted it for itself.



    solomon wrote :"Tholkappiyam denies education to 4th Varna and Classifies duties of Brahmins, Kshyathrias and Vysias more clearly. "

    That is blasphemy, 'payanthavan kannuku ellame payei', so for the vedic fanatics every thing they see has inhuman filth just like the vedas.

    solomon wrote :"Please look at the Development of Agri based Social Growths and Non-Brahmin High Caste Hindus are the Major Benefaciaries of the Caste System, and was developed for them. "
    Yeah right, what broad minded the brahmins were, they created the caste system for the benefit of others.

  8. #47
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber devapriya's Avatar
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    Caste Systems and its Major Beneficiaries

    Friends,

    I have quoted barathiar on wrong projection of India outside.

    Now same about it with Wrong Translations of Vedas.

    Dravidian protogonist was Gilbert Slater and his book Translator Appadurai is another such, they have accepted that Vedas do not have Caste, again quoting Maxmuller.

    The Major Beneficiaries of caste is UPPER Caste Non-Brahmin Land Lord and Rich, is History.

    Devapriya

  9. #48
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    Wrong Translations of Vedas.
    What wrong translation??

    Dravidian protogonist was Gilbert Slater
    How can Slater be a Dravidian protogonist?

    they have accepted that Vedas do not have Caste,
    Pl quote para and page.
    The Major Beneficiaries of caste is UPPER Caste Non-Brahmin Land Lord and Rich,
    Why do you say so? -- When they cannot get the pujaari job in the temple?
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

  10. #49
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber devapriya's Avatar
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    VEDAS AND Indian Civilisation.

    Friends,

    Maxmuller was appointed by British Church, from Plundered Money from India, to translate Vedas for the Convinience to Misiiionaries, details of this in any other Approprite Thread.

    Maxmuller's Own letter- //Max Mller, in a letter to his wife wrote in 1886: 'The translation of the Veda will hereafter tell to a great extent on the fate of India and on the growth of millions of souls in that
    country. It is the root of their religion, and to show them what the root is, I feel sure, is the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the last 3 000 years.//

    And Lot of mistakes, as Swami Daynanda was following him and attacking of his frauds, later he need to be very careful and still his translations were not fully appropriate. I SHALL give details shortly.

    On his fradulant dating of Vedas Maxmuller himself
    //Max Mller himself conceded the purely conjectural nature of the Vedic chronology, and in the last work published shortly before his death, The Six Systems of Indian Philosophy, admitted: 'Whatever may be the date of the Vedic hymns, whether 1500 or 15 000 BCE, they have their own unique place and stand by themselves in the literature of the world' //

    So We need to be very cautious of meaninglessly attacking Indian Civilisation of its basics.

    BISmalas and Mahadevans have problems in knowing Truths on Tholkappiyam . If you keep your Eyes Closed; World wont stop functioning. Tholkappiyam has rigorous caste classification including denying Divine Duties to 4th Varna and Denying Eduction to them.

    Please read Literatrue; and come for discussion.

    Devapriya

  11. #50
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    //Max Mller, in a letter in 1886: 'The translation of the Veda ................... It is the root of their religion, and to show them what the root is, I feel sure, is the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the last 3 000 years.//
    Maxie wrongly thought that Indian religious practices were based on the books called Vedas. Except a minority that went round chanting mantras using the methodology of the vedas, these books had no real application at all to the religious practices of the masses!! Maxie the Christian thought the natives of India apply the books in their daily religious practices (like the Christians apply the Bible ) which is false
    //And Lot of mistakes,//
    What mistakes and what was the impact of these mistakes??

    On his fradulant dating of Vedas Maxmuller himself ................
    //Max Mller himself conceded the purely conjectural nature of the Vedic chronology, and in the last work published shortly before his death, The Six Systems of Indian Philosophy, admitted: 'Whatever may be the date of the Vedic hymns, whether 1500 or 15 000 BCE, they have their own unique place and stand by themselves in the literature of the world' //
    We need to be very cautious of ......
    Yes, this is what we have been saying. The dates up to now by all these so called scholars are all conjectural. Thank you for admitting it
    B.I. Sivamaalaa (Ms)

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