Vedic Past of Pre-Islamic Arabia

[stranger]

Further says Manu is corruption of the word Noah.

I dont understand what say you!

Could you say that in English, please ?

[ramraghav]

a rather comprehensive take on Ayodhya
http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.co...acat/index.htm
http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.co.../acat/ch11.htm
http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.co...ale/index.html

[bis_mala]

Further says Manu is corruption of the word Noah.

I dont understand what say you!

Could you say that in English, please ?

Sorry, I shortened it too much and sacrificed clarity.

I will reconstruct in proper sentence as follows:

"Abbe Dubois further said in his book that the word "Noah" had corrupted and changed to "Manu".

Noah > nuu > (ma)nuu.

So he hinted that the word Manu was somewhat forged by adding "ma" which is maha = great. So it means: the great Noah.

ma (Tamil) > maha (Skrt), ma is the Tamil form.

[stranger]

Thanks for the bit, b_m

Has he shown any evidences that suggest characters "Abraham/Ibrahim" existed in the "Hebrew literature or epics" were "older" than that of the character "BrahmA" existed in the Sanskrit literature of Hindus

[ramraghav]

The tale of Manu, of the great flood (as against Manu, the author of the Smriti, an entirely different person), existed prior to the composition of the Rig Veda (or atleast part of it). This can be inferred from the fact that references to this Manu (of the flood) are found in the Rig Veda. Just to quote a few verses, you may want to look up Rig Veda 1.14.11, 1.31.17, 1.36.10.......(according to Ralph Griffith, Hymns of the Rig Veda, Vol 1, there are more than 80 seperate references to Manu in the Rig Veda).

Besides these numerous references in the Rig Veda, Manu is also referred to in the Brahmanas, the Puranas and the Upanishads (especially in the Mahabharata).

The Bhagavata Purana claims that this Manu (of the flood) was actually a Dravidian (South Indian) king of the name Satyavrata, who was adviced and guided by the Matsya incarnation of Vishnu to build a boat and transport himself and the Seven Sages to the northen mountains.

The Bhagavata Purana story regarding Manu and the flood is detailed in Canto 8. The particular reference to Manu as a Dravidian king is in 8.24.13 http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto8/chapter24.html
Ram

[bis_mala]

Thanks for the bit, b_m

Has he shown any evidences that suggest characters "Abraham/Ibrahim" existed in the "Hebrew literature or epics" were "older" than that of the character "BrahmA" existed in the Sanskrit literature of Hindus

From the way it proceeded, Dubois presented that piece as somewhat conclusive and my assumption is that he was of the mind that the Torah was older than the Vedas. I was surprised when I read it.

I did not see any character comparison. You are welcome.

Ramraghav wrote:

The Bhagavata Purana claims that this Manu (of the flood) was actually a Dravidian (South Indian) king of the name Satyavrata, who was adviced and guided by the Matsya incarnation of Vishnu to build a boat and transport himself and the Seven Sages to the northen mountains.

The Bhagavata Purana story regarding Manu and the flood is detailed in Canto 8. The particular reference to Manu as a Dravidian king is in 8.24.13

I was getting ready to bring in linguistic evidence to show that the word Manu is a Dravidian /Tamil word. Also, that in his book there may have been insertions later because of certain contradictions which were also adverted to by one of our hubbers in the now-removed Manu Smirithi thread. It awaits completion.

I believe that Manu was from South. Thanks to Ramraghav for his illuminating post.

The Arabs believed that Nabi Adam descended in Tamil Nadu. Please see my post under thread Kumari Kandam. It may have some relevance.

I wrote:

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject: the common source

From an account given by naavalar aRinjar abduR Rahim, in his introduction to Muslim Poets, (Universal Publications), the Tamil Land was the first place the first man (Adam according to MiddleEastern tradition) stepped his foot on when he descended from heaven .................................................. ...etc.................etc.....................and also have been found in Arabic (see Swami Njanaprakasam's works) , it is not suprising to find words common to Arabic and Northern because all those words came from the common source Tamil.

[Sandeep]

--deleted--

[bis_mala]

Great posts Bis_mala, ramraghav. The world seems to be very small indeed.

Two queries though

//However Siva is from South India //

Wasn't the earliest form of Siva worshiped in Indus valley civilization which was a dravidian civilization.

//I believe that Manu was from South//
Do you mean he was Dravidian or that he was from Southern part of India.

If the loss of Kumari Kandam is accepted, then it should have spread from there to the North (Indus Valley). If it is still doubted, then of course, the Indus Valley Civilisation may be taken as the earliest evidence until further evidence is unearthed.

Manu from the South, I mean the Dravidian/Tamil South.

[Uppuma]

Friends,

According to the founder of Thesophical Society,
the Indian Brahmin who went to Israel, left God's way i.e., Brahma's way and hence became A-brah am.

The name Adam- cames from Sanskrit Adi, one, and Eden from Aham are the findings of many Christian Indologist.
uppuma.

[bis_mala]

Friends,

According to the founder of Thesophical Society,
the Indian Brahmin who went to Israel, left God's way i.e., Brahma's way and hence became A-brah am.

The name Adam- cames from Sanskrit Adi, one, and Eden from Aham are the findings of many Christian Indologist.
uppuma.

For ideological reason, philosophers such as Voltaire in 18c ACE showed much interest in replacing Biblical tradition with a more distant Oriental source for European culture. Sanskrit was closer to the Proto-Indo-European and hence, European scholars were happy to choose India over China as the homeland of earliest recorded evidence for their culture. The linguistic theories flourished and one of the reasons was that India was under European domination for quite some time.(happiness over cultural affinity).

The Biblical tradition states that men started to build a tower to heaven, God became angry and punished them by making them speak different tongues so that they could not understand each other and could not conspire anymore. All languages started from there; if the story is true and all must be of equal age!! In the 18c not many scholars in Europe wanted to pay much attention to what the Bible had to say about the origin of world languages.

Anyway, there are still many scholars who think that Sanskrit is a foreign language that came into the sub-continent. That also conveniently explains why we can find in Skrt so many words which have equivalents in Indo-European.

According to current linguistics, aadhi does not have equivalent in Indo-European. It has a homonym in Tamil with identical meaning. The word is "aakuthal" = coming in existence, becoming. Root is "aa" or "aaku" and thi is a suffix which can be found in many other words. Hebrew sources say that "adam" came from their word meaning dust or mud, meaning God created man from dust or mud!!

I have written here and in other threads about Brahma and how the word derived. Scholars differ. Where there are too many disagreements, it is usual for linguists to conclude that the word is of unknown origin. Brahma is pre-Vedic and Brahmin priestly order is post-Vedic. Cannot reconcile.

As I pointed out, pre-Islamic tradition of Arabia stated that Adam descended in TN.
Adam might well be a word from Kumari Kandam, Lanka or TN.