Understanding "I" - Vedanta

**pradheep** · 16th August 2005, 01:49 AM

If you are really keen to understand your own misunderstanding on Vedanta, I suggest you to think of all possible combinations or worldviews under which "I" could be experienced, and then ask yourself a question, is that experience part of your perception, within your body or not? Is there any way that you can experience "I" without your body or not?

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**pradheep** · 16th August 2005, 01:53 AM

is that experience part of your perception, within your body or not?

Dear Rohit,
I can have the thought of "I with the perception of the body and without also. In dreaming state I dont have the perception or feeling of this body lying ona bed. Still I have an I thought. So even without a body I can have "I".

Is there any way that you can experience "I" without your body or not?

Yes without having the perception of the body I can have the feeling of "I" in deep sleep. But is the "I" that I experiecne in waking state, dream state and deep sleep state are different.

**SRS** · 16th August 2005, 02:25 AM

Yes without having the perception of the body I can have the feeling of "I" in deep sleep. But is the "I" that I experiecne in waking state, dream state and deep sleep state are different.

It is written in Gita or Upanishads (I cannot remember which one) that dreams are reflections of the past lives. Indeed, many people have had dreams in which they find themselves in places which they have never encountered in "real" life. They will then have an experience in this "new" place that is out of the ordinary. Also sometimes ppl will have dreams about the future. Can you explain this, Pradheep? It goes with what you are saying; the thought exists independently of the bodily functions.

**pradheep** · 16th August 2005, 04:13 PM

Dear SRS
can yougiveme couple of days time,I am writing a small article which will explain what you asked.

**SRS** · 17th August 2005, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by pradheep

Dear SRS
can yougiveme couple of days time,I am writing a small article which will explain what you asked.

Okay Pradheep. I look forward to reading your article.

**pradheep** · 24th August 2005, 05:49 PM

Dear SRS
hope this article will give you the answers for your questions. Please follow the link and if you still have doubts we can discuss here.
http://sakthifoundation.org/three%20bodies.htm

**Sandeep** · 8th September 2005, 11:26 AM

My feeling from what I remember of my dreams is that they are closely related to the happenings in your life.

If it was something eternal how come we see our family, friends in your dreams and also how are the incidences close in essense (situation may be different) to your feelings and emotions

Is our mind playing some games out of boredom.

**pradheep** · 8th September 2005, 02:42 PM

Dear Sandeep
Yes you are right. Dreams are thoughts that did not bloom out into action. Dreams are aborted pieces of thoughts and find fullfillment as dreams but would randomly do so.

In our daytime also we spend mostpart of ourlife day dreaming. we keep thinking we shouldhave done this in the past or think of dreaming the future.We are neverin the present. Always day dreaming. Just observeyour thoughts . you will find the mind wanders. If themind cannot wander freely because of the enivornment it feels boredom. Mind always plays - wanders. Mind does not liketobein the present. To be present is the "Gift" of life. Most of us never live life we are only day dreaming of the past or the present. The "Self" or atman is always in the present.

**Rohit** · 9th September 2005, 09:14 PM

Critical analysis of "in the present"

The past, present and the future are the concepts that are unarguably attached to time T.

If one ever tries to critically analyse the thought of being "in the present", one would soon realise that there is no such thing as "in the present". Everything that one knew in the past, knows now and will ever know in the future with any certainty was, is and will be about the past. Nothing whatsoever can be known about the literal present or the literal future.

The reason is quite simple, only if analysed and grasped critically.

There is always a time delay between the occurrence of an event or an event of experience and the event being observed externally and/or experienced internally. There are further time delays in the subsequent sequence that follows the event or the event of experience, which involve a time to acknowledge, a time to register, a time to relate and/or correlate, a time to process the bulk of information, a time to reach a judgement followed by a time to form a valid conclusion about the event or the event of experience that occurred a while or long ago.

Nothing whatsoever of this sequence can happen strictly concurrently or simultaneously. Thus, an event/experience, in all its finest detail and resolution, can truly be known only after it has already happened and has become the past. So, the situation being "in the present" never existed, it does not exist and it will never exist. The only fact that one can ever truly know, is about the past; no matter how short or long time ago it happened. The time dely "dT" involved may vary from a tiny fraction of a second to billions of years, but it can never be "0".

Conclusion:

The thought of being "in the present" is nothing but a delusion as, the very situation being "in the present" never existed, it does not exist and it can/will never exist. An acute, transcendental paradox that can be resolved neither by a series of mere wishful and heedless thoughts nor by the extremes of absurd desires.

This ends the critical analysis of the thought of being "in the present" with a confirming conclusion that "We can never be in the present", only nothing can be in the present.

**pradheep** · 11th September 2005, 08:05 AM

Dear Rohit
The thought of being "in the present" is nothing but a delusion

what sort of deluded state are you in Rohit? Can any one deny the present. The present is life (that is why present is called a gift). Life is a gift - present. Every moment is only present. The moment you are reading this forumhub is also present. The moment, you are thinking, is no longer present...it is already past.
present is not in thinking. Every thought is a dead piece of information porcesssed in the brain. Even future is also in the present.

When you plan of a future event, it is still in the present. The future becomes a past dead thought the moment you think about it.

What Vedanta is talking is not about the dead "thinking" of thoughts, but the present, the very moment...awareness which is nothing but the reflection of the consciousness.

You are one and one proving the dead thoughts. I am talking about theliving present. Hope you can understand what I am conveing to you.

I would like you to explain what you mean by " nothing can be in the present".