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Thread: cricket of yesteryear

  1. #11
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    Bala Sir,
    Kotla 121 and Ahmedabad 90 were gems without a doubt. Kotla hundred, 50 off 37 balls, 60 not out at lunch and 100 off 94 balls. Ahmedabad hammered 80+ when first wicket fell at 127. (Though it was just Marshall and Holding for these tests)

    But Marshall breathed fire at Kanpur & Calcutta and SMG wasnt equal to the task(it is another matter that none could have survived )

    Aside: SMG in 1970-75 was Version I - cuts, pulls, hooks
    SMG post 75 Version II was the mainstay of Indian batting - avoided all horizontal shots till the Kotla 83 innings

    Sure..pls carry on series by series...80s were quite dull, so please cover more of the 70s.

    Just to add, The hindu brought out a curtain raiser on the 74-75 series and N.Ram the then Sports Editor, picked out debutants Greenidge and Richards as the men to watch. Vaai muhurtham

    Chandra missed the 2nd Test where Viv made 192. Venkat was made captain. Pataudi making a comeback couldnt handle Roberts.

    Eagerly awaiting your first hand recollection of Madras, Cal tests.

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  3. #12
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    Hello Walrus,

    Before commecing on Chennai and Cal tests , wish to add one point : 1974 series in India :

    1. Venkat was made captain for Delhi test as Tiger was injured.

    2. The same Venkat was made 12th man for Chennai test !!!


    1983- Series in India

    1. Kanpur - Marshall was everywhere and as you said, breathed fire and infact scored 90+ also .

    2. Koltakka - Sunny got out to the first ball of the match !!! Caught down the leg side by Jeff Dujon .
    In the second innings he was going good but chased a wild delivery from Holding and got caught behind .

    Till today, SUnny feels bad about that inning.


    YES , FROM NOW WE SHALL MOVE TO THE GREAT EVENTS THAT HAPPENED TO THOSE OLD TESTS.

    I wish more postings come out from others who were my peers during those golden days

  4. #13
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    The precursor to every season is the Irani Cup. SMG and Vishy made merry scoring 156 and a masterly 200 respectively. Pataudi in the evening of his career struggled to find his usually sharp instincts.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.Balaji
    Hello Walrus,

    Before commecing on Chennai and Cal tests , wish to add one point : 1974 series in India :
    1. Venkat was made captain for Delhi test as Tiger was injured.
    2. The same Venkat was made 12th man for Chennai test !!!
    It was actually Calcutta Test I think.

    bala Sir, this is what I read in Rajan Bala's "All the beautiful Boys". It such either during this series or some other, Pataudi had left the field for injury and the vice captain Bedi too went off. At this point, the players expected Venkat as the seniormost player to be the natural candidate to lead the team. Just then, SMG stepped in and informed that the management had instructed him to take over the leadership should such a situation arise. The fact that this was entrusted confidentially to a junior player without the knowledge of a senior(venkat) shocked everyone.

    Venkat was not even informed of the captaincy removal - this was announced by the pilot on the flight!

    That said, I am not making a case for poor venkat here - he has perhaps the worst bowling average among all Indian spinners of last 30 years - a very good bad-wicket bowler but too modest on good wickets. Venkat and Srikkanth are cricket gods in TN but really mediocre even by Indian standards if one cares to look up the records.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.Balaji
    2. Koltakka - Sunny got out to the first ball of the match !!! Caught down the leg side by Jeff Dujon .
    In the second innings he was going good but chased a wild delivery from Holding and got caught behind .
    I have fond memories of the 2nd innings. I think SMG smashed 5 fours as he raced to 20 in the 2nd innings. There was a collapse and India was soon 36-5 at stumps.

    The next day I and my brother who were in primary school finished our half yearly exam and impatiently waited for the school bus to take us home so that we could go home and listen to the commentary. We got off the bus and ran at full speed towards the house, the pencils and sharpeners rattling inside our pencil boxes. As we turned into our lane and went running, one of our neighbours, a college student called Ramesh anna, shouted from inside his house - "Odaama medhuva ponga, India all out 90 !! "

  5. #14
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    Walrus,

    Nice posting.

    I wish you go back 35 years and you will get the truth .

    You know why Venkat's average is mediocre, its because during those days the three jiants :

    1. Bedi
    2. Pras
    3. Chandra

    were on top of the world but THEY NEEDED SOMEBODY TO CONTROL THE FLOW OF RUNS. They found Venkat as an able guy who can control one end so that there is enough pressure built and you get wickets automatically , the other end.
    This is the whole truth behind Venkat's record.

    Venkat had variety . Even the great Pras acknowledges Venkat is much better bowler. Yes , Venkat always bowls defensively as he was asked to play that role.

    Venkat also had exceptional fielding skills . He along with Solkar ( sad , Eknath Solkar passed away recently ) were two great close in fielders.

    I will summarise this way, while other fielders were butter fingered ( including SUnny and VIshy !!! ) , Venkat and SOlkar came to the rescue of the 3 above great bowlers.

    You know, during those days, a slip fielder ( for India ) is supposed to be somebody who cannot be placed elsewhere !!. Sunny and Vishy were not agile on the field and they became automatic choice for Slip cardon.

    It was after Kapil , the situation changed . We had better fielders but still first slip and Second slip went to Vishy and SUnny !!!

    COming back to Rajan Bala - RAJAN BALA IS A THONDAR OF VENKAT .

  6. #15
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    dear bala sir
    i will reply on venkat's stats later. pls go ahead and cover the rest of the test matches. i have some questions over the 1975 world cup after this

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Balaji
    Walrus,
    I wish you go back 35 years and you will get the truth .
    No need, diligently go thru the records with an open mind, the truth will be self-evident.
    Quote Originally Posted by S.Balaji
    They found Venkat as an able guy who can control one end so that there is enough pressure built and you get wickets automatically , the other end. This is the whole truth behind Venkat's record.
    I agree with Sentence 1 - venkat was to the trio what Lock was to Laker. Sentence 2 is incomplete - basically venkat wasnt international class!

    Here goes:
    (player - tests - wkts - avg - no of 5 wkts - wkts/test)

    anil 95 tests 461 wkts 28.23 avg 29 5wks 4.85 wkts/test
    chandra 58 tests 242 wkts 29.74 avg 16 5wks 4.17 wkts/test
    gupte 36 tests 149 wkts 29.55 avg 12 5wks 4.13 wkts/test
    bedi 67 tests 266 wkts 28.71 avg 14 5wks 3.97 wkts/test
    hirwani 17 tests 66 wkts 30.10 avg 4 5wks 3.88 wkts/test
    pras 49 tests 189 wkts 30.38 avg 10 5wks 3.85 wkts/test
    mankad 44 tests 162 wkts 32.32 avg 8 5wks 3.68 wkts/test
    doshi 33 tests 114 wkts 30.71 avg 6 5wks 3.45 wkts/test
    raju 28 tests 93 wkts 30.72 avg 5 5wks 3.32 wkts/test
    ahmed 22 tests 68 wkts 30.17 avg 4 5wks 3.09 wkts/test
    ghavri 39 tests 109 wkts 33.54 avg 4 5wks 2.79 wkts/test
    venkat 57 tests 156 wkts 36.11 avg 3 5wks 2.73 wkts/test

    any unbiased person will see that Spin King Venkat is bottom of the list in terms of BOTH WKTS/TEST and AVERAGE - heck, even Karsan Ghavri and Venkatapathy Raju were better than him he he he

    Venkat played 57 tests and got 5w in an innings thrice which is a humiliating fact. Please dont even mention his name in the same breath as the Big Three. I wont even mind Ganguly bracketed with Sachin-Dravid-Laxman but Venkat with Pras-Bedi-Chandra? BIG SORRY!

    Interestingly my rating of yesteryear indian spinners would be
    1. Gupte 2. Bedi 3. Pras 4. Chandra 5. Doshi - Gupte is top of all while places 2-5 will be a tie.

    Doshi was unlucky to make his debut at age 32. He was nearly as good as Bedi if you see BSB's figures after 33 tests

    33 114 30.71 6 3.45 <- Doshi
    33 124 28.67 5 3.76 <-Bedi

    Quote Originally Posted by S.Balaji
    Even the great Pras acknowledges Venkat is much better bowler.
    Purely out of modesty. Ian Chappell was the best player of spin those days and he rated Pras as one of the all time best offies. Just look at Venkat's record versus:
    Aus 38.45
    Eng 46.65
    NZ 22.81 [ Rabbit killer!!]
    Pak 104
    Windies 39.47

    Assuming your statement is true that Venkat > Pras and therefore world best spinner ...If these are the records of the worlds best offie, I really regret not becoming a Test batsman

    Quote Originally Posted by S.Balaji
    Venkat also had exceptional fielding skills
    Whole heartedly agree. That saved his skin - otherwise he would have been dropped in favor of Rajinder Goel or Padmakar Shivalkar or Raghuram Bhat.

    TN media has simply over-hyped Venkat like anything while the stats show the stark reality. If you will kindly remove your bias, you will see where Venkat really stands. BTW, I have not even considered Harbhajan here, Bhajju can achieve in a series what Venkat achieved in a career.

  8. #17
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    V.V Kumar was unlucky not to play more games. TN team in the 60s had Venkat, V Kumar and Vaidyanathan as the spin attack. Vaidyanathan is none other than the dad of tennis "star" Nirupama!! V.Sivaramakrishnan's elder brother V.Ramnarayan was employed with SBI Hyderabad and played for Hyderabad. He was also a test offspin contender but got blocked by Venkat

  9. #18
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    waiting for your report of Tests 3 and 4

  10. #19
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    Hello Walrus,

    Excellent analysis of facts . Keep it up. You are very knowledable on records and statistics. Nice to note this.

    Wish to add one more to the Calcutta debacle - 1983 series after Sunny scored 5 boundaries etc . I could see Viv Clapping from the slips appreciating the Little master. Immediately after some deliveries, Sunny lashed at a very wild delivery and got caught behind.
    The second innings was all Holding and he worked up liquid pace and breathed fire and mopped up the whole Indian battling line up.

    In that series, Holding was using a shorter run up. If you had seen the good old Holding in the late 70s, he was called the - ROLLS ROYCE of cricket as he used to have a SMOOTH, BEAUTIFUL runup ( very long run up ) to crease and will hurl the cherry. He used to hold the ball like a lemon !!
    Subsequently Walsh followed his style.
    Holding and Marshall both took 33 + wickets in that series.

    I am stunned by the point by point statistics and your counterpunch launched on me on Venkat !!!. Hats off.
    I must acknowledge that you are a great Cricket follower.

    Great mate . Keep it up.

    I AM UNABLE TO START MY FAVOURITE SERIES 1974-75 as our topic got diverted on 2 things :

    1. Discussion / debate on SMG
    2. on Venkat !!!

    I will definitely start this famous series shortly. Thanks mate for giving me an opportunity

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hehehewalrus
    V.V Kumar was unlucky not to play more games. TN team in the 60s had Venkat, V Kumar and Vaidyanathan as the spin attack. Vaidyanathan is none other than the dad of tennis "star" Nirupama!! V.Sivaramakrishnan's elder brother V.Ramnarayan was employed with SBI Hyderabad and played for Hyderabad. He was also a test offspin contender but got blocked by Venkat
    Walrus,

    VVK was unlucky but he had his limitations as a batsman in the sense , it was true that he moved away in the series against WI . Sad we also did not have any enough skull protectors ( what SMG used ), helmets, arm guards etc etc . Otherwise, VVK would have survived. VVK along with Venkat were 2 kings in Ranji Trophy ( South zone ). In every match in the first innings Venkat would have taken 5 wickets and in the second VVK would have taken 5 w.

    VVK played for long - SBI and Venkat was for - SPIC etc .
    Ramnarayan was a good bowler but could not go beyond Ranji

    Even V. Sivaramakrishnan was not fortunate as he had all the potential. Played well in Ranji scored tons of runs . I remember Abdul Jabbar also scoring double century and was very consistent.
    V.S. could not make to higher levels as during those years - IT WAS MUMBAI VS DELHI !!!. SMG packed his favourite bunch of players and Delhi guys ( Bedi ) were equal to his task !!!.
    SMG was very biased and partial during those days.

    There were other guys like - Prabakar / Kedarnath / Bharat Reddy - All from SBI . They were like DEMIGODS for us during our School / College days when we used to go either Marina ground / VIveka college / University union etc etc to watch these great guys play.

    I am not sure whether you know the list mentioned above.
    Kedar was a class act and he used to play like GRV. Silken touch and full of class.

    Oops, I am getting deeper into TN cricket now .

    You know cricket is a great treasure brought to us by Brtishers.

    Indian cricket is a wonder

    TN cricket is full of mouth cricket !!!

    Few guys were lucky like Srikanth. I wonder , for the kind of chances he got, if we had given to WV Raman or Ramesh or Sriram, they would have done much better.

    Srikanth was a very lucky guy. Probably Guruvayoorappan saved him ( his favourite God )

    Mate, I have a lot to write about Indian Cricket.

    I WILL COME BACK AT YOU - ON VENKAT AGAIN LATER !!!

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