Indian Vegetable Gardening

[venkatappiah]

Is it possible to grow snake gourd in containers? how much sun light do they need?

I tried tomatoes and eggplants this yr, eggplants had poor yield, and full of insects, is it becos of growing in containers?

I will post in few days.It takes time to type and need to compare with few other friends.

http://www.logees.com/

Good source for Jasmine plants and cesturnum(night queen-Raat Ki Rani).

It is also a good source for curry leaf(kari pilla, Karivepaku plants)

The stories about night queen are like this
The chineese emperors used to eat the fried flowers of Night queen before they visit the queens and courtesans.Probably it acts like a floral Viagra.

[venkatappiah]

Greetings Anouskha

What plants you give away and what plants are popular with Indians in Dublin?

A Chinese proverb

If you want to be happy for few hours-- get a bottle and drink.
If you want to be happy for few days-- get a pig roasted.
If you want to be happy for a month or two Get married.
If you want to be married throughout your life ---do gardening!

[venkatappiah]

Curry leaf plant

Murraya Koenigii (Curry Leaf plant)
The English term curry is of Indian origin: In Tamil, a South Indian language, the word kari means “soup” or “sauce”; this is also the basis of the Tamil name for curry-leaves, kariveppilai which contains ilai [ “leaf”.In Telugu another south Indian laungauge it is called as Karivepaku ( aku= means leaf).The north Indain Kari patta is an adoptation of south Indian name

The curry leaf tree comes in three different cultivars varieties and now since the last 5 years 3 new Hybrid varieties are available in India.
The New Hybridized versions grow fast, and are disease resistant, but have less flavor. These are used by market gardeners and farmers,

The Curry Leaves have strong scent and were used in Indian, Laotian, Malaysian, Sri Lankan and Cambodian and vietnameese cooking.

It is a native of South India and Sri Lanka, It spread to Malaysia, Cambodia, Singapore, Africa, Fiji Islands, West Indies, Suriname (South America) and now to North America.
Indians took this plant where ever they migrated (along with Tamarind, holy basil, jasmine varieties, mango ,Rajani gandha and guava Etc).It spread to Vietnam and Cambodia by Buddhist monks.
In USA the demand exceeds the supply. Now due to the recent surge in the Indian population a 6 inch plant is selling for 15 dollars an 18 inch plant sells for 40 dollars. Many nurseries are taking orders for next year.Many Americans are also growing it for the scent and it is a small compact tree in southern zsones.

It is a small tree which is a great looking in your back yard at it has great looking and aromatic leaves. The leaves look like the ones you buy at the grocery store. Dwarf variety does not grow as tall but the branches spread. Light green Leaves are the same size as the regular variety but it has an aroma of its own.
GAMTHI variety is the most fragrant very thick leaf structure but slowest of all the curry trees. All the three varieties of curry leaf plant differ in the intensity of flavor .Look at the leaf edges .The leaves without the serrated edges are the one most flavor and they are smaller and darker in color
The slowest growing small leaf one is the most fragrant one. It is available only in Tamil Nadu Sri Lanka and Kerala. In North America one can get it in the Sri Lankan Bazaar in Toronto, Canada
Used in cooking, there is nothing like picking fresh curry leaves just the right amount when you need them. This leaf extract have cholesterol reducing power. Many Sri Lankan are using this extract with little brown rice and very little milk of coconut or regular Skim milk have cooked make thick green drink (Kolakada). Many Sri Lankan are using this extract for lowering to cholesterol. Believe it is good for the stomach.

The traditional use of the curry leaf tree to treat diabetes has attracted a great deal of interest. Special compounds have been found which might make it an effective new medicine for diabetes sufferers.So far it seems to reduce the post prandial spike in blood sugar.

Growing curry leaf plant in North America and Canada
They all have one thing in common. They like full sun, very well drained soil which should be on the dry side and they need fertilizer during summer months .If you live in south it is a care free tree.

Fertilize weekly during the growing season with Peters 20-20-20.Peters fertilizers are preferred by nursery men and growers than Miracle grow as it got less salt residue.
Allow soil to dry between watering
Water( water at room temperature, not straight cold water from tap) sparingly during the winter months and do not fertilize
Ideal growing temperature 65 - 90 F
Minimal winter temperature 60 F

Propagation:

Murraya koenigii are propagated by growing the small suckers from the base of the tree, by root cutting, or by seed Propagation
If you have some very fresh curry leaves, you can try to root some as stem cuttings. Take some of the twigs which are not very floppy and green nor very hard and woody (this stage is called semi-ripe), and remove most of their lower leaves. Cut the stem cleanly at a node, and push the cutting a few centimeters into a 50/50 mix of potting compost and aquarium gravel, with about 3 leaves above the surface. You can dip it in rooting hormone available every where.

Put the cuttings in a covered pot, in a warm light place out of direct sunlight. Rooting will take about 3 weeks.In three months it will be established ready to move to a bigger pot.

Methods of separation of suckers

Insert a sharp knife about 2-4 inches around the baby plant and cut around the plant in a circle or square to divide the parallel running roots. Then move the knife under the plant and cut any remaining roots at the bottom of the plant. Once it is loose, carefully dig it out. Wet the root with water and dip it in Rooting Hormone Powder, which you can buy from a plant nursery. Then pot it in a container, using the best potting soil. Use a container about 1 gallon size. The container should have a couple of holes at the bottom for the water to escape. No need to put any stones around the hole. You may just fill the pot with the soil to the half mark. Place the baby plant in the center of the pot on top of the soil, and fill up with potting soil. Put several Styrofoam peanuts in the bottom for effective drainage. (You should do that for all tropical plants) Cover the plant with soil up to the level where it stayed under dirt. Give the plant a drink of water, and keep it either inside the house or outside in a shaded area. If you let it stand in the sun the baby plant will dry out and die. Check the soil frequently, and when dry water the plant. When you see tender leaf sprouting, the plant has established. This may take a while, for the root development takes place first.

Now you may start feeding fertilizer to the plant. For potted plant, use a water soluble fertilizer, like peters, with the composition ofNitrogen, potassium and phosphorus (13-13-13 or 20-20-20)). I prefer to give a very dilute solution half the strength as suggested by the label whenever I water the plant. When the plant grows bigger, you need to repot it in a bigger container. This can be done during the fall, so that the plant can get over the shock by the time spring approaches. Do not let the plant have many root suckers. These new plants are competing for the limited resources of space, water and fertilizers. Separate them and you can always give them to your friends.

How to care for a plant in an area where it freezes during winter:
In areas where it freezes in winter, you must bring the plant inside the house, before the first freeze. You can keep the pot near a window where it will get sunshine. You can bring it outside when the last freeze is over.

In areas, where the winter is very mild, you may plant them on the ground. But mulch the base of the plant to 4 inches during winter to be on the safe side. This will protect the roots from freezing. You may cover the plant with a thick cloth first and then a plastic cover on top, if any freeze is predicted. .
I have seen 5 feet tall plants in Anchorage, Alaska. They used a humidifier, grow lights (compact fluorescent lights 12 dollars at Wal-Mart).Even their jasmines are blooming.

Diseases

The only infestation seems to be a scale that seems systemic to the plant once it is inside for about two months. They grow on the underside of the leaves along the vein line. Initially, these scale are very small, black and almost unnoticeable because of their transparent, part of the leaf appearance. They continue to grow and multiple to such an extent that you cannot get rid of them adequately by hand. If you can not see them put a clean white paper under the leaves and shake the plant. Look for the dark granules on the paper.

On a warm winter day, at least once during our winters, I take them outside for a hand spraying of insecticidal soap and an hour or so later a water wash before bringing them in again. There is no need to use toxic Sevin or parathion...

One can also use a good non toxic spray to kill the bugs using a teaspoon of Listerine(mouthwash liquid) and few drops of dishwashing detergent to a gallon of water and spray the plant.
Some tricks; the flavor of the leaves is reduced if it grows in potting soil and miracle grow. Add some compost. The flavor comes from phosphorous and sulphor. In natural habitat sulphor is available from dead leaves and dung. But for potted plants one fourth of a teaspoonful of sulphor will enhance. Alternately one can add a teaspoonful of molasses to the water twice a year.

The soil Ph should be slightly acidic. The safest way is to add a spoon full of apple cider vinegar to a gallon of water few times in a year.. One good fertilizer for aromatic plants is 2% milk instead of throwing the plastic milk can swish it with water and add it to your plants.

Occasionally one can buy 2% milk powder or skim milk powder on sale close to expiration date. This is a good nitrogen source and got some amino acids which the plants can use directly.

Grand mother’s tale. If the curry leaf plants suddenly starts grow rapidly, you may move or relocate.
collected and and from my own experience.I have all the three varieties .

[venkatappiah]

]Tindora, Donda Kai, Kovakai

Ivy gourd, Scarlet gourd, Gentlemen’s Toes, Dondakai, Kovakai, Tendli, Telacucha Kunthru, Tinda

Coccinia grandis,

History: It is mentioned in Sanskrit early literature. The ripe fruit is called as” Bimba”

Bimbadhari “One with lips like the red ripe fruits of Bimba.”( Draupadi is supposed to be a Bimbadhari)

In Telugu literature the lips of a pretty woman are compared to DONDApandu lati pedalu(lips) like the lips of ripe donda fruit..

I got a plant in first in 1983.This plant Got a story. My friend got this plant from India in 1978.

As the customs do not allow vegetables, fruits and seeds he concealed it in his sons diaper.(baby at that time). He propagated it and gave it others.He says it is well fertilized with his sons!

Before that I asked, requested and literally begged another person, a grower to give me some rootsof Tindira plant. He refused and said “Tindora roots !No way”


It is a tropical vine grown for its small edible fruits. The may be eaten immature and green,. When the fruits mature are deep red. The young shoots and leaves may also be eaten as greens

It is a no brainier to grow in south and I saw it growing like a weed in Hawaii.

Tindora is a market crop in the Dade county, Fl, Yuma Arizona and in Southern California.

It is also imported from Dominican republic.Research is being done at Purdue University Indiana.

(Their website is a good source of information).

Several different cultivars are available varying in size from thumb to Index finger ,green, light green and green with vertical stripes and lemon green. There is no hybridization as it is easy to grow in tropics and sub tropics.Not much of documentation is available.Some of the cultivars have a different taste.Some are slightly sour(pulupu), some are slightly bitter.

Being propagated by asexual reproduction it needs adequate root mass--- At least one quart.The one which your friend gave you is probably a small root. The plant prefers to spend its energy time in developing good root structure first.

Planting to yield time. For tindora is 75 days. If the roots are well grown and if there is a small vine already formed at the time of planting it will be easier and shorter..



Few things can be done

Soak the roots in a dilute solution of rooting Hormone for half an hour

Alternately soak the roots in a solution of super thrive for an hour. For few days feed the roots with super thrive.This is what I do and it is not absolutely necessary.

For over wintering plant it in a good sized pot and give minimal amount of water. Over watering will cause root rot.

Soil for the best Growth 50% potting mix ,the rest with and compost manure.I also add a generous amount of vermiculite.

Add to the mix a table spoonful of garden lime. Feed it regularly with peters 20/20/20 or 13/13/13 at half 1/3 strength initially to give it a boost. I add to the soil rose or bulb fertilizer or garden tone.Phosphorous is needed for flower and fruit production.

I do not use Miracle grow as some people say it gives a metallic taste. I am a semi organic gardener..Needs sun and make a trellis. It can be grown in containers like 10 gallon tote which one can get it K-mart.Please note US 3 gallon is equal to 3.3 liters. Imperial gallon in Europe is higher

The best way to winterize plant is keep it in a Styrofoam Ice chest sold for 3 dollars.at Gas stations .Make holes in the bottom for drainage.Styro Foam cooler chests are cheap and also Insulates.Plastic containers do not insulate. This way youminimize the risk of loosing a plant. in winter

Any one can grow it in south. But some addle work is needed.if you live in North..



Propagation

It is easy. I layer some of the branches in a pot, cover it with soil and put some stones on that.I also use propagation chamber for stem cuttings.

Propagate them and give them to your friends.You wont have to say like Mr. Patel in 1983 ”Tindora.No way”

You can buy this from this source. They sell good plants

http://www.farmersmarketonline.com/tropicaltrees2.htm


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[venkatappiah]

Growing egg plants and snake gourd in containers

Seeds: I buy the early varieties.50 day from transplanting to fruit production.

In the year 2005 a new award winning egg plant resistant to disease, with great yields is available. I have not yet tried that. Available from tomato grower’s website.

I most often give the seeds to the local green house, they charge a nominal amount. I give them 32 OZ Jumbo soft drink Styrofoam cups Fill it up with a seed starting mix. I do not like the small plastic seed starting trays. I want the plant to have a well established root system to be ahead in the game.

How many plants?

These are broad generalizations with the usual disclaimer. Two egg plant plants per person are enough. Your mileage may vary
2 Snake gourd plants per a family of two are more than enough.
Snake gourd is a vigorous grower with large leaves. Takes space.
Needs trellis. Due to shade other plants may not get sun light.

Which type of snake gourd?
The new short variety.

The long 4 feet variety raises the curiosity of passers by. They break and get damaged easily if there is heavy rain with windstorm, Thunders, tornado and what not. One year all the long Snake gourd fruits broke in to pieces and flew away.

One can expect 25-35 fruits per 2 plants. I give the extra ones to only those people who can say thanks. It is my time and labor. No thanks or a word of appreciation nothing next year.

Size of containers 5 gallon planters or 10 gallon totes 4 dollars at K-mart.
For some reason I have no explanation 2 plants in a 10 gallon container give better yields than a single plant in a five gallon container.

I have 2 plants of the same variety to help in pollination.
One US gallon equals 3.3 Liters. Imperial gallon is much larger.

Preparing the containers.

Containers need drainage wholes at least of the size of a 10 cent coin 5 of them for 5 gallons 8 of them for 10 gallons. The roots need Oxygen, and the roots should not be drowned and water should not stagnate.

If one wishes to prevent cracking of the plastic containers from hot sun, one can give a coat of armor all a plastic preservative.
One can cover the drainage wholes with a piece of cotton cloth, paper coffee filter or a mesh so that solid will not leak out.
Drainages holes can be in the bottom or in the sides half an inch to quarter of an inch from the bottom.

Fill the bottom with half inch layer of Styrofoam peanut packing chips.

continue later.

[venkatappiah]

Egg plants in containers

They do look attractive specially the slender green, white and purple varieties. There is no need to hide them in the back of the house.
They can be placed in the front along with flowering plants. The slender versions are better and more suitable for containers than the large oval heavy egg plants.

To be ahead in the game

Start them in the home 2 months early or
as mentioned before give the seeds Etc to a green house.
Be sure to harden off the seedlings.
Be sure the soil in the containers is warm. Cover the soil in the container with a black plastic (garbage bag) so that the soil will get warm.
If the night temperatures for some reasons drop down,
Or if there is heavy rain, thunder storm cover them with a plastic sheet or bring the container to a shelter (I wish I could do that with snake gourd, bitter melon etc)

Harvesting

Pick them ahead of time.
The outer skin should be glossy and shiny.
If it is dull it is past its time.
Put your finger on the fruit and press it hard. If you can make a depression and if the depression stays the same it is tender.

Use sharp scissors or a knife, cut them with a part of the stem.
Do not yank them off.

Even if one fruit sets the seed the plant will slow down.
Keep the planter elevated. Not directly on the soil. See the bugs do not gain access through the drainage holes. One can also place a garbage bag (plastic) under the container.

Initially to keep and make the soil warm, one can use aluminum foil as a mulch surrounding the plant .It will reflect light also. Cheap aluminum foil or shiny gift film (not paper) wrap will do. Being smooth some bugs may not be able crawer penetrate on it. Later mulch it with wood chips. Some of my friends use white rock (pebbles) they get warm during the day and radiate heat at night.

Egg plants are bitter. Why?
Are they are like hydrogen gas, colorless odorless and tasteless?

Uneven watering. Not adequate water when the fruits are set.
Excessive use of chemical
Fertilizers. Some people believe MG gives a metallic taste. Flavor depends upon phosphorous, sulphur and minerals.

Bugs, Beetles, aphid’s potato beetles,Tobaco mosaic virus.
You may not be able to avoid them totally, but you can manage them successfully (every thing under control.). I have all of them here, but keep them under control.
About fertilizers and bug control I will post later.
Generally healthy plants are not affected by the bugs; even if they are attacked they can recover fast.

Over crowding. Not enough of air circulation, wetting the plant in the evening. If the leaves get wet they attract bugs. If wetting the leaves is unavoidable, water the plants in the mornings so that they can dry of quickly..

I do foliar feed the plants, but that is a different game.
Using the garden soil and not using the planting mix. Excessive use of Nitrogen. I do not use any chemical pesticides. We grow them to eat them and not to sell them.

[Anoushka]

Thanks Venkatappiah

I give out Tulsi plants, strawberry plants, mint plants, rose cuttings and a few cactii varieties to my Indian and non Indian friends

I grow mint, cabbage, manathakkaLi keerai (a variety of green), tarragon, beet root, mEthi, French beans, mustard, tomato, corriander...

and my flowering plants include Rose, jaathi malli (Jasmine), kanakambaram, sweet williams, sweet pea, mari gold, sun flower, forget me not, dahlia, and few bulbs like tulips, daffodils, etc

Plus I grow a lot of cactii..

[dev]

Thanks Venkatappiah

I give out Tulsi plants, strawberry plants, mint plants, rose cuttings and a few cactii varieties to my Indian and non Indian friends

I grow mint, cabbage, manathakkaLi keerai (a variety of green), tarragon, beet root, mEthi, French beans, mustard, tomato, corriander...

and my flowering plants include Rose, jaathi malli (Jasmine), kanakambaram, sweet williams, sweet pea, mari gold, sun flower, forget me not, dahlia, and few bulbs like tulips, daffodils, etc

Plus I grow a lot of cactii..

Anou,



Enaku 4 mint & money plant-a valarkarathukulla pothum pothumnu aagiduthu...

[Anoushka]

dev: I love gardening athu ennamO namma thOtathu kai samachu saapidurathula iruka santhOshame thani

But athukku space-um vENume, neenga apartment-la irukirathunaala athu kashtam illaya?

[Kz]

Thankyou Venkatappiah for the detailed explanation abt growing snakegourd in containers.
Kz