Indian Vegetable Gardening

[venkatappiah]

Gardening should be fun and not a chore.

When I first started serious gardening in 1985(Mid- west-USA), we started with too much enthusiasm, too many plants about 1500, in an acre and half of yard.

Used to spend a couple of hours everyday, we had some one to help us Plus A tiller and 3 compost piles.

We produced too much. One year we had 250-300 Bottle gourds form 5 plants (Loki-Sora –Bottle gourd).Literally had to request people to take them .Family got tired of harvesting, and using the vegetables.

Now getting older, learnt the easy way. Now it is more enjoyable, spend may be an hour or two during the season per week .Have enough for us, some left to share. Now the goals in gardening are more defined. Learnt the smart way.

The nearest Indian grocery store is about 120 miles away, being vegetarians, we do grow them, Can not eat cauliflower, potatoes and cabbage all the time.

There is nothing like getting few leaves fresh coriander, curry leaves, vegetables from garden.

Some of them such as Methi can be grown in winter months inside the home. It is a fast germinator (if you soak the seeds in warm water rover night-Not the cold tap water, keep it under light. use only water at room temperature –not cold water from the Tap).
Start successive planting in 2 or 3 plastic containers 5-6 inches deep made up of plastic- like a shoe box from wall- mart or a dollar store-drill some holes .Alternately in some of the stores like any thing for a dollar stores, like dollar tree one can buy small garbage cans for a dollar. It is easy to make holes .One can cover the holes with a coffee paper filters, or with a piece of cotton cloth(cut from old cotton vest, old bed sheets, Jeans Etc.The wet piece of cloth helps in moisture retention, excess water can seep out, but not the soil. It grows fast 3 weeks to four weeks if fertilized well.
Plant one of methi set every week or 10 days. When one batch is used up the second one is ready to harvest. Shoe box (Plastic) won’t take much space. If fertilized well they will be ready in 3-4 weeks.

In India a people are complaining about pesticides in Pepsi. Any one knows how much pesticide residues are there over the vegetables sold in the Market?

I gave a friend of mine several cuttings of cestrum (Raat Ki rani- Night blooming Jasmine-Night queen). They are easy to root, grow very fast. Heavenly fragrance in the night after 7-30 PM
He planted a half a dozen of them over his fence. Neighbourers complained that the over bearing fragrance gave them head ache. Hence the need for some moderation. (Easy to say-but difficult to follow).

One thing I found in the hard way is to prune.

Pruning stimulates the growth, more flowers, and more vegetables.
Most of Indians here (including me at one time) feel guilty to cut growing tips or lateral branches or remove suckers from tomatoes, vines etc.. Feel reluctant to cut some thing green and growing.
Many think it is complicated to learn to identify male and female flowers and pollinate them. When once they learn it they say”Tthis is it!.It is so simple”

It is useful for those plants with male and female flowers and if there are no bees and bugs around to do the Job.(Like snake Gourd, Bitter melon ETC)

More later.

[Anoushka]

Thanks a million for all these tips

by the way, can we use the molasses (jaggery water) in the compost bin to speed up composting?

[venkatappiah]

The microorganisms in the compost or in the soil to which we added matter needs to sugar to survive and to multiply. They decompose the matter.

Hence the need to add molasses. Molasses are available as dry powder and as liquids.

But the cheapest source, which we have at home, is Jaggery.
If one lives near a seacoast, seaweed is free. It contains lots of minerals and growth stimulating harmones. Broken seashells are good to add, as they are a good source of calcium. Here in the US one can buy powdered seashells 7 dollars for 50 pound bag used to feed animals.(if collected they need to be washed to get rid of the salt)

In all some of the best sources for organic fertilizers –cheaper comes from animal feed stores. But they come in 50-pound bags.
Coffee grounds can be added. Some times one can buy 2 % skim powder close to the date of expiration at a bargain price. Some believe this takes out the bitterness out of some vegetables.

Continuing on Methi

Most of the time the Methi we buy comes with roots. Since labor is an expensive part they sell them that way. But the better way is to cut with a scissors the tops or some tender parts and let the plants grow continually. When done completely the roots can be mixed with soil and it will be ready to plant in a week or two. The same can be done with Dhania, (Kothimeer, and cilantro). That way we are adding organic matter to the soil again.

Since these are leafy vegetables high nitrogen fertilizers are best. I use them and I also use fish emulsion (Kept as a secret from my wife to avoid frowning). Give the plants water half way and then give them the fertilizer mixed water at half strength.

The leafy vegetables are a good source of Iron (highest in Mint)
But if the soil is deficient in Iron?

regards

[venkatappiah]

[tscii]I have been growing snake gourd (potla kai)on and off for the past 10 years, grow up to—4 feet long — and their easy, pest-free, but space taking and Need a strong trellis.

Look like hanging green snakes, snake gourds are one of the vegetables that elicit frequent comments from the local people. The other one is bottle gourd (Loki, Sora kai, Doodhi)

There are two distinct categories of snake gourds offered by U.S. seed companies. One is a long, ornamental gourd that develops a hard shell when ripe; the other is the waxy-skinned snake gourd with which we are all familiar in India.

I am sorry I do not remember the Tamil name though I lived for few years in Pondiicherry in early 70s.

Botanical Name as Trichosanthes anguina or T. cucumerina. Its genetic origin is India, but today, the snake gourd is grown all over the world, especially in tropical regions. Being one of the popular vegetables in southern India, many distinct varieties have been developed. Such as : ‘India Short,’ which resembles a large cucumber with nearly white skin; ‘Extra Long Dancer,’ which is about 4 inches in diameter and the most snakelike in appearance; ‘White Glory,’ a medium-long variety with white skin, and ‘Baby,’ a short, white-skinned variety recently developed by the College of Horticulture at the Kerala Agriculture University in India.

Within the past 10 years, many New Hybrids are developed. It adapts well to the vegetarian cookery; it is highly productive as a field crop, and the plant has a long association with Ayurvedic medicine, which employs it as a cooling ingredient. Reduces excessive body heat.


Today due to significant increase in Indian communities in the United States, the gourds can be purchased in most Indian markets year-round, and seeds are available from several U.S. mail-order companies. I never saw one in the Indian grocery stores before 1995.

The snake gourd variety I grew is ‘Extra Long Dancer’
Purchased from Evergreen Seeds in California. Now I switched to the short ones. The long ones break and damaged easily from heavy winds.

Growing Snake Gourds

It is similar to that of the cucumber, but, a few tricks are worth knowing.
First, this is not a vegetable that can be grown on the ground.
You will need a trellis, or a fence to let the plant run free because each vine can grow as long as 15 feet. The support structure must be sturdy, too, because of the fruit’s weight. s. A damp, rainy climate is detrimental. And this year we did not get much. But about 10 of them as we had a wind storm in the last week of may with 60 MPH winds.

If you can grow beans in your area, then you can grow snake gourds. The insects that beans also like the flowers on snake gourds, or simply learn to hand pollinate.

The trick to getting good fruit here is to start the plants early indoors and to plant them out as soon as the weather gets warmer... The larger the cup: I use 6-inch pots so that root disturbance is minimal./Now I changed to the largest Styrofoam cup from McDonald for super sized soft drink. I use them for growing all vegetable seeds now. This will give them the head start they need in order to set fruit during the hottest part of the summer.

The gourds are ready to eat when they are young, about 40 to 50 days from planting, depending on the weather. For an average of 10 years you have good yields for 7 years.

These days I prefer the shorter varieties.

The ripe seeds themselves are dark gray, should not be consumed by humans due to complex compounds with strong emetic and purgative properties.
Saving seed season to season, discard any that are light-colored or white; they will not germinate. Even in India, germination rates for the best seeds hover at about 60 percent. So always keep on hand more seeds than you think you need, and plant extra for precaution. Furthermore, save your seeds every year or buy them.

Snake Gourd Seed Sources
Evergreen Seeds
www.evergreenseeds.com

The Banana Tree
Easton, Pa
www.banana-tree.com

Sand Mountain Herbs
www.sandmountainherbs.com
Shipper of Indian vegetables. Need to buy a box. Also sell Donda, tindora roots.
http://www.fruits-vegetables-spices.com/ivygourd.htm/

http://www.seedsofindia.com/catalog.php These people sell all Indian seeds including Andhra Dosa kai(the yellow one) and 50 day early yield vegetable seeds suitable for short growing season.

Comments

Many people say growing snake gourds is difficult. They say they tried and gave up.

I grew 2 varieties from ever green seeds and also the short ones... One need at least 2 plants All plants must be of the same type .Early flowers may be 70% male flowers. The reason why I prefer the short ones is because if there are heavy winds the long ones break and simply fly away.

Start the seeds indoors in the first week of April. All gourds have either male or female flowers. This variety produces yields in 50 days. Ever green seeds / India seeds is a good place to get 50 day Bitter melon seeds, and egg plant varieties. I do not want to wait 75 days.

One can easily grow 15 fruits minimum per plant here Need to emphasize the need for a strong trellis again and again.
If there are No bugs or bees-there will be no pollination and no fruits either. Learn pollinating by hand.

Give them good general fertilizer. I prefer organic and compost. After 30 days change to high phosphorous fertilizer such as rose fertilizer or bulb fertilizer. If one is lucky one can easily get 40 of them. They freeze well. I have fond memories of a dish my grand mother used to make with yogurt and shredded coconut. My wife says she started hating this vegetable as her mother fed her every day for a month after she delivered our first son in India.

Since this plant is a vigorous grower, needs some good space for roots at least 2 cubic foot of soil. A friend of mine, an expert in container gardening grows it in pots. She says it needs at least a 5 gallon bucket and larger is better. Larger storage plastic tote boxes if drilled holes in the bottom work fine.

For trellis one can use the in expensive nylon strong net. It is cheap costs only 50 cents per foot and one need at least 6 feet.
Fence posts, electrical conduit pipes can be used to make a trellis.

I hope this will shorten the learning curve

[Anoushka]

I've added a small block of achchu vellam and a few sea shells to my compost bin thanks for the tips!

Do keep posting with more tips!

[venkatappiah]

I guess "acchu vellam "means jaggery block.

I stayed only for 3 years in Pondi for my PG in early 70s. My tamil is limited.
I lived in Andhra, Maharashtra and Karnataka.Living in the US from 74.
One can also shave with a peeler the jaggery block.It will go longway and spread farther.

Now a days have only Jasmines, Night queen and lillies apart from annuals. There are 13 different types of Jasmines, But only few are long bloomers.
I will post few more on container gardening, raised beds, square foot gardening and in detail about some plants I am growing now.

regards

[venkatappiah]

When we started serious gardening in early eighties, after education (PG- Fellowships etc), residencies, settling in career, purchasing a house,

Started with in the ground planting on a grand scale.

Most of my colleagues are physicians. It is a kind of therapy, like having pets, growing some thing we can eat, relaxation, nostalgic memories with the plants we were associated with.

When some one asks me why you are spending so much money on gardening, I have a simple answer.

It is cheaper than playing golf, better and cheaper than having a girl friend, and gossiping.

But now we all downsized. We moved to a smaller house, smaller yard, and clay soil. Like we left our parents, my kids have their own life and me and most of friends changed to container gardening, raised bed gardening and square foot gardening. Our needs are also less. Now we grow what we like. We do not have an acre and half of garden like we did earlier. One can call it an empty nest, age syndrome.

Choosing a container. (Pot)

Containers come in different sizes and shapes.
I prefer square ones if available as there is no wastage of space like circular one. More area

I prefer to buy them when they are on sale. Usually in fall.
Containers are expensive

There are many alternatives.

Here in the US well made durable Pickle buckets from Burger King or Shoney (any restaurant) are free. Usually they throw them Garbage. Just ask the manager arrange a time so that you can pick up. They are five gallon containers.Don't get lard (animal fat buckets (to make French fries) unless you do not mind cleaning the greasy animal fat.

Large containers 10 gallon totes are selling for 3-99$ in K. Mart, Big- lots and many places. They are well made storage boxes, Round or rectangle. All one need to do make holes (Drill them)

Either in the bottom

Or

Half an inch away (UP) from the bottom. Fill the bottom with Styrofoam peanut packing chips for an inch to half an inch.
It facilitates drainage and helps in aerating the soil. The roots also can get some air.

Cover the holes with coffee filter or a piece of small cotton cloth (T-shirt).This helps in preventing the potting soil to leak out, and critters and bugs gain access

Since the containers are kept out side in the sun, gets hot, fade out-and crack- to prevent that friend mine uses e uses armor all (a cheap plastic preservative)

Size depends upon the root mass. And spread of roots.
If you want the plants to have family planning one or two fruits one can use a smaller container.

For Methi got a long tap root system. Different people pull them at different stages of growth. If you pull the plant along with the root at 6 leaf stage 6 inches deep pot is fine, or deeper if you let it grow and cut leaves and stems at 8 inches.

Cilantro (Coriander)

I do not use the seeds from Indian grocery shops. They bolt quickly (flower and seed).

I only grow Kothmeer with the seeds from
Evergreen or from Park seeds. This Dhania grows to 12-20 inches in Height, cut the leaves and side branches as you need. If allowed it will grow up to 20 Inches tall.They are not significantly different in taste from Indian coriander. I have no idea how old are the seeds sold in Indian grocery shops. These Dhania seeds are from the cultivars grown for seeds.

The seeds from parks or evergreen sources are good. Try them, you may like one more than the other. They have 4 different varieties.

But the cheaper source is the one can buy from Hispanic or Mexican grocery stores or American super markets. Cheaper in large bottles.

My first attempt at growing Coriander is a disaster. A friends father, a farmer told us to soak the seeds in warm water or crush them between both palms. The Dhania seeds are smaller than mustard seeds. The brown stuff is only a shell. They germinated fast with this method, but grew only to 6 inches, and slow.

Now we switched to cilantro seeds.
More later.

[Anoushka]

Quite interesting! Will try and check my local BK, McD's if they have pickle bucket kind of things they throw away. I am constantly giving plants to all my friends and as a result constantly looking for pots in all sizes!

[Kz]

Hi venkatappiah,
I enjoyed reading ur posts, waiting for more..
Is it possible to grow snake gourd in containers? how much sun light do they need?
I tried tomatoes and eggplants this yr, eggplants had poor yield, and full of insects, is it becos of growing in containers?
Kz

[venkatappiah]

This is the one I use for trellis netting.

It is re usable, cheap and even hold 10 LOKI, (SORA, Doodhi, Bottle guard) and it is cheap. And it is easy to install.
http://www.enchantingsweetpeas.com/p...-Trellis-41363
Trellis netting

this unobtrusive trellising supplies perfect support. Lightweight plastic netting with 6-inch squares has UV stabilizers for longer life. It can be simply attached to a wall, fence or post.Trellis comes seven feet high. Order it the length you need or cut it to suit your garden space.
Size Price
6.5'x 8' $6.25
6.5'x 12' $8.25
6.5'x 20' $10.25
6.5' x 50' $20.25

Mel’s tomato tower. Trellis frame I use

http://www.squarefootgardening.com

This is the one I use. Good for all climbers, Snake gourd to bitter melon and even tomatoes .Purchase one. Take it to the local hardware store. And ask them to give you the connectors and the pipe cut for the recommended length. These cutting charges are nominal. You save some money and shipping charges. They are reusable, you can dismantle them, store them, and take them with you wherever you or relocate. They also look good and classy.

Good source of Tindora (donda) roots-Gentlemens toes.

These plants are difficult to get although appears pricey well worth for me. Easy to propagate

1 qrt Tindora $15.00 plus $5.00 packing plus $5.95 Priority Mail $25.95 please remit a money order to A.Smith 7341 121st Terrace Nth.Largo, FL.33773 Cordially Alan
asmith2@tampabay.rr.com
He also sells pan leaves plant (beetle leaves for Thamboolam) I never tried that. But few of friends have that.
regards