Anniyan - Patriotism

[ganesh79]

Percentage of Indian population living below $2/day 79.9 %

Source: http://hdr.undp.org/statistics/data/...ic_24_1_1.html

Human Development Index(HDI) Rank: 127

Source: http://hdr.undp.org/statistics/data/...ic_16_1_1.html

The sources above are United Nations Development Programme

Why dont you rid yourself of this bigotry and spend a couple of minutes researching things on the web before you hastily write such gibberish. First I give a Hindu link and then you say that that article never calls Anniyan a super Hit. Very clearly in Bold letters at the bottom of the article it classifies Anniyan as a super-hit based on Cost and Revenue. You probably did not understand the article or you never bothered to read it.

You said-->"I can say authentically most of your stats abouth the Indian Demography are absolutely wrong! "

I want to see some authentic sources from you then. I can back up all my statements.

United Nations is not even as independent as our O.Panneerselvam and you trust their findings! God bless you.
I too don't want to discuss this anymore in this forum, but anywhere else!

[alwarpet_andavan]

PEACE!!!
Some thoughts/opinions....

1) If i see a problem in my water-pipes, wiring etc in my house, i need to accept them as facts and call the plumber, electrician etc as required and get the problems fixed. So, the first step is acknowledging the problem. Merely pretending that my house is in perfect order won't help. My house might have a fabulous paint-color, it might have a very good vaasal but the things which matter more are the plumbing, electricity etc.
In this context, i agree with Unlimited Meals that we have real problems, irrespective of what the "India shining"-lobbyists would want us to believe. This should not be mistaken for lack of patriotism - Gandhiji didn't start the struggle without/before accepting the fact that there were problems - with the British as well as with ourselves. Bharathiyar, Rajaram Mohan Roy, et all were first disgusted with the societies they lived in before starting their reforms.

2) I agree with Ganesh and Maddy on the Iraq thing and American policy in general and disagree with Unlimited Meals on this, but i'm not sure if its relevant here.

3) IMO, no one, including the state, has the right to take anyone's life nor is killing going to be a solution (though its unavoidable sometimes). That's just a simplistic, naive, myopic and impractical "solution" (if i might call it that!).

4) About the movie itself, i thought it was a bad attempt, lacking in originality or artistic value

[Cinefan]

Well,we all know 'India Shining'did not work, not because it was not shining,it was/is but the percentage of ppl for whom it shined/shining was/is very small.Even for them there are day to day problems which cannot be shrugged off like the lack of good roads, of uninteruppted electricity/water supply,of good drainage system,of working bright street lights,of good law&order,of smooth flowing traffic,of officials who do their duties on time without expecting additional payment etc etc etc.

In a vast country like India with a burgeoning population,how is all this going to happen?Good rulers,administrators,workers are all part of this soceity,they are not coming from outer space.There is a malaise in soceity which is reflected in their attitude&behaviour.This can be corrected only by the people themselves(I,you,others).So there is nothing wrong in the story line of Shankar but the execution left a lot to be desired.Also Shankar's solutions are very simplistic&impractical.They make for good viewing but cannot be followed.

Indians in general cannot be called patriotic simply because there is too much divisions in terms of caste/subcaste,language.We are more proud of being Tamilians,Kannadigas,Malayalis,Bengalis than Indians.It's only the occasional Cricket match or natural calamity which binds us.Even that pride is not very strong because we seem to have no commitment in keeping our street clean,paying our taxes on time,following rules,identifying&voting for a honest hard working person etc.

With so much USP's going around here does it make any sense comparing ourselves with other countries?Let's set our house in order before praising/denigrating others.

[UnlimtedMeals]

Maddy

The reports are from United Nations and HDI is a Index accepted by independent states in UN conferences.

That being said,

ganesh79..

there is no other metric now that independant states use except the UN which is by far the most non-partisan and widely recognised agency. I have written research papers and you can see that in the research field, the academia treats UN statistics as the most credible rather than sources from individual countries. Therefore your argument and your analogy to O. Paneerselvam has a big hole.

In other words, if you cannot trust UN statistics and would still like to believe that Indians are living so well and not 79% are living in less than $2 a day, then go ahead.. turn a blind eye to our problems and call yourself patriotic by doing so.

But I request you to back up your statements with data and credible sources and not write "opinionated" statements that are riddled with questionable judgement.


Cinefan-

I agree with every single thing you said. India is shining in places. I totally agree with that. But the percentage of India that is Shining and part of this new century misguided euphoria is very very low and unfortunately it does not represent India at all! Great point.. This is exactly what I have been trying to say. Our growth is big in parts, but averages are pathetic.

alwarpet_andavan

Thanks for your post too. I wish all of us thought like your first point. We have problems but when we raise our problems some people shut our mouths by calling us unpatriotic. We have to first recognize that these are problems. And then we have to seek a solution.

Finally,

Maddy-I have been trying to do my part in helping our country. I do not wish to state here what all I have done in monetary acts and non-monetary acts since that will only go as much as to stroke my ego. But whatever I have done, I am confident it is atleast a drop in the ocean. Trying to silence my criticism by attacking the patriotic psyche is just akin to War opponents in America who are labeled "Unpatriotic"

Overall, thanks guys for such an engaging debate.

[ganesh79]

Well,we all know 'India Shining'did not work, not because it was not shining,it was/is but the percentage of ppl for whom it shined/shining was/is very small.Even for them there are day to day problems which cannot be shrugged off like the lack of good roads, of uninteruppted electricity/water supply,of good drainage system,of working bright street lights,of good law&order,of smooth flowing traffic,of officials who do their duties on time without expecting additional payment etc etc etc.

In a vast country like India with a burgeoning population,how is all this going to happen?Good rulers,administrators,workers are all part of this soceity,they are not coming from outer space.There is a malaise in soceity which is reflected in their attitude&behaviour.This can be corrected only by the people themselves(I,you,others).So there is nothing wrong in the story line of Shankar but the execution left a lot to be desired.Also Shankar's solutions are very simplistic&impractical.They make for good viewing but cannot be followed.

Indians in general cannot be called patriotic simply because there is too much divisions in terms of caste/subcaste,language.We are more proud of being Tamilians,Kannadigas,Malayalis,Bengalis than Indians.It's only the occasional Cricket match or natural calamity which binds us.Even that pride is not very strong because we seem to have no commitment in keeping our street clean,paying our taxes on time,following rules,identifying&voting for a honest hard working person etc.

With so much USP's going around here does it make any sense comparing ourselves with other countries?Let's set our house in order before praising/denigrating others.

It is a well known fact the something "developing" means something not perfect and not evolved fully. But, it is not same as something "going down". We have been steadily progressing forward for the past few years. Anniyan itself is a testimony to this. 10 years ago were the directors able to make a movie with such a graphics indigenously?
Now a days movie makers' budget is minimum 20 crores. They fly to Tulip gardens, empire state and the interior of egypt so freely. We have to accept that we are going forward. One should not make money by selling the problems in india in the name of art.

I remember a scene in Jeans. A white doctor would make a biggest mistake of doing a surgery on wrong side. Our hero would just raise a voice little bit, then a team would be formed, they would "casually" discuss this mistake and next scene they would rectify it. Very next scene our heroine would offer thanks to our "soft" hero and then duet! It's a movie directed by the same Shankar , who, if only it happend in India, would have shown the hero turning into a serial killer killing all the doctors in India! What kind of partisanship is this? If Shankar wants to suck the confused desis living abroad and the high-class Indians living in India but owing allegiance to somewhere else, let him do it. But, not at the cost of degrading Indians.

[Crab]

India's military might is a myth

I don't know where you guys got this theory that big is equal to great! Wake up. Hypothetically speaking, in any future war, Persian and Thai armies on either side of the country may find it quite easy to subdue Indian army within weeks.

By living in denial, you can't become more patriotic than me.

:P

[Crab]

India Withering

Despite the fake grandeur of Bollywood, the republic is now so weak it may be overtaken by sub-Saharan Africa by the end of the first decade itself. New babies have always outnumbered new jobs. Scarce resources like water are already a political juggernaut between each race. Indoctrination has curbed leadership. Oligarchies are emerging already in each industry. The Union government is on auto-pilot. It prefers to cling to power and have a laissez faire approach. History is repeating itself.

Welcome back to 18th century no-holds-barred wilderness where the fittest only will survive.

[ganesh79]

India Withering

Despite the fake grandeur of Bollywood, the republic is now so weak it may be overtaken by sub-Saharan Africa by the end of the first decade itself. New babies have always outnumbered new jobs. Scarce resources like water are already a political juggernaut between each race. Indoctrination has curbed leadership. Oligarchies are emerging already in each industry. The Union government is on auto-pilot. It prefers to cling to power and have a laissez faire approach. History is repeating itself.

Welcome back to 18th century no-holds-barred wilderness where the fittest only will survive.

Nostradamus re-born? Good theme for Shankar's next movie! Enough scope for graphics, stunts and more importantly foriegn locations.

[UnlimtedMeals]

Nostradamus re-born? Good theme for Shankar's next movie! Enough scope for graphics, stunts and more importantly foriegn locations.

Ganesh79, Instead of trying to be "funny" by coming across as cynical and failing to do the same, let us try to respond to each poster with dignity and effective orchestration of sound arguments.

Crab, you have posted a brilliant concept. "Living in denial".. how beautifully you have termed. I am repeatedly saying this. Let us not try to prove to anyone we are a super power. we are miles away from that. Let us first accept a problem. There is nothing wrong in us having the problems our countrt is facing. First, we must acept them and then we must work towards solving them. But constant chest-thumping euphoria about highly limited and highly concentrated niceties of liefe that this new century has entailed is counterproductive to any progress!

Ganesh79,
Replying to two points you made.
Showing a foriegn doctor or a foriegn citizen erring in their way of life and punishing them does not sound like a great idea to educating our masses on responsibility and duty. In fact SHankar should be praised for his decision to show that even these advanced countries have their pit-falls. Did you expect Prashanth to take revenge on the doctor? It sounds inane to me.

Your other point of using a medium of art and making money by showing the problems of India, I disagree wholesomely. The money-making part does not warrant any explanation. However a director such as Shankar should be commended for going against the norms of "Love" stories and boldly showing discrepancies in our society.

Infact I personally thought Anniyan was a step ahead in this because I am not too sure of a politician would be willing to change watching Indian since they have so much to lose, but a citizen of our country can definitely change by watching Anniyan. When I say "change", it can be something as minute as not spitting on the road anymore or using proper means to dispose trash.

[Thiru]

well, the hospital scene in Jeans reminds of another hospital scene picturised in India.. The movie is Ramana and the doctors try to treat a dead patient and make more money and the end result is Hero taking a different sort of revenge against the doctors.... In Ramana, director has to take an approach of hero black-mailing the doctors of taking them to court which is quite unrealistic in today's India.. The same is being done in Jeans in a different way and solved in a different way... My point here is that a corporate giant or a hospital giant has the power to do anything in our Judiciary setup... whereas in the western countries its much more different... Consumer court is being used in Indian movies alone whereas its being used in day-to-day life in western countries... Being patriotic doesnt mean you need to hide the pitfalls that lay in your country...