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Thread: Living in the past...

  1. #21
    Senior Member Senior Hubber lordstanher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinefan
    Don't deny the positives of the history,also don't deny the negatives,Instead learn from the mistakes our ancestors committed.Is that happening today,NO. We are committing far more mistakes of the worse kind.
    Exactly! this true esp. w/ respect to the youngsters of today, who see it as an indignation to believe in all these 'rusty old values' tat most of them grew up with!

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Senior Hubber lordstanher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinefan
    people who came to power calling themselves saviours have now become the new exploiters.
    Another solid point!
    Unfortunately when this is pointed out, the majority of the society, in the name of secularity, refuse to acknowledge it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinefan
    Also a strange phenomen has developed wherein anyone talking about the glorious past is labelled a RSS man&trying to advance brahmin hegemony. In fact this is also perpetuating(spelling right?) the caste system.You don't like a particular caste,so you deny the significant contributions they have made to soceity.
    Absolutely correct! Its only when we hav the self-acceptance of this flaw of ours then we can hope for self-improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinefan
    I want to live in a India which looks upto past achievements with pride,learns from the mistakes&tries to make society a better place to livein.This requires a collective effort for a long period of time.
    My sentiments exactly!

  4. #23
    Senior Member Senior Hubber lordstanher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes
    If women were so free and were oppressed to safe guard during times of invasion, why did they lose social status? Why they did not enjoy property rights then?
    JG,
    I think the answer to tat wud be the implementation of Manu's code, which has since been ingrained into the mindset of our society, esp. the men.
    In Manu Smriti, Manu had stated various negative generalisations against women, deeming them untrustworthy and treacherous, and declining them rights to education and property. Unftly most of it still being followed by ppl. here & there in our society.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes
    If you observe, we have shed off so many idiotic ideas of the past and whatever we are having , we see more than 30% are there only for the sake of "tradition" and in 10 years from now, we will be throwing 10% of this also to dustbins.
    Um...no offence JG, but surely u aren't suggesting tat we shed all of our respective traditions and other cultural aspects, deeming them all as unwanted?
    Bcos, quite on the contrary, u still chose to go a traditional arranged marriage (obv. the girl of ur parents' selection & from ur community?), when it wudn't hav been impossible to 'accidentally' meet an arbitrary girl on ur own, get to know her & finally settle for a love marriage.....
    So this idea of arranged marriage for eg. obv. doesn't appear to u as trash to be thrown into the dustbin rite?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes
    We may reclaim 5% of the things that are useful in those 10 years.
    Hmm....u'll forgive me but I'm rather skeptical abt tat happening....wud the present & future gen. (of 10 yrs from now) think the same as u do here in this regard?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes
    However that does not mean that our undated past in which our ancestors lived gloriously is the best model of living.
    JG, b4 I comment further, I might clarify sumthing tat apparently explains the reason for our different inferences? From Cinefan's earlier statement to u, I'd say tat we all seem to hav our own selective perception of the past and thus present different viewpoints.....?
    For eg. the 'past' tat u chose to compare the present India w/ was like thousands of years ago, during the times of Kings/kingdoms and most likely the Vedic age (if I'm not wrong?)....and looking back from ur viewpoint, I might agree w/ ur sentiments abt India being far better off today than it was as a cluster of conflicting kingdoms back then.....
    Anyways, coming to me, when I think/talk of the 'past', I normally go down to a more recent past, ie. say 30-40 yrs ago when my parents were roughly of my age group.....or even more recent like the '80s, during my childhood days....and compare the then society & the then values (rather than those of 1000 yrs ago) w/ tat of today/my gen.
    And from wat I heard from my parents abt their time, I can't help agreeing w/ Cinefan tat altho we undoubtedly hav better technology, improving medical facilities (except maybe in Govt. hospitals!), better food production etc.....but the outlook of the society in general, not to mention the political leadership is certainly changing for the worse, slowly but steadily, whether we all believe it or not!
    OK as an eg., quoting Cinefan's point, say a couple of 1000(?) yrs ago it was possible for a married woman to hav affairs & still be accepted by her husband/society.....but sumwhere down the line, their successive gens. came up w/ a 'new' set of norms/morals tat condemned such adultrous acts and so this wud've been one mistake of our earliest(?) ancestors tat their future gens. (inc. our g'parents/parents) learnt not to commit and thus over the ages, followed wat was believed to be a morally correct path......introducing 'pati-vrata', considering other women as ur mothers/sisters, women not to be touched by ne man other than their husbands etc....in the same society....
    But then again in the same society today, I daresay we find history repeating itself? with an astounding increase in illicit promiscuity such as pre-marital relations, incests, group sex and even wife-swapping......No, these havn't become acceptable by our general society so far, but I'm sure u agree they r nevertheless considered an ignorable, 'common' matter today as opposed to wat wud've been the attitude of the society towards these say 30-40 years ago.....
    Thus comparing today's society w/ tat of my parents' time in this one instance atleast, i feel tat Cinefan had a valid point in saying tat far from learning from the -ve points of our ancient ancestors and avoiding them, we r committing far more mistakes of the worst kind! This shud not be the case if we r becoming a better society, shud it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes
    If what you say about classification of people based on work is so true, then our ancestors are really crooked. I am a brahmin myself and I am ashamed of the "glorious past" . Simply because we might have put men on moon in our past, but we oppressed millions of people because of their race, colour, caste etc.,
    There hav been various misinterpretations reg. caste origins.....they were originally a mere division of labour based upon individual skills....for eg. if u had knowledge in a subject and were good at teaching or liked to conduct prayers, u cud go for tat job & were called a brahmin.....if u were good at fighting or administration, u were a Kshatriya, if good at Business a Vysya & those who were skilled only in build and physical labour were 'Sudras' and it was even worse in Egypt/Rome where, as u said, such ppl. wud've been kept as slaves!
    Its only when one/more of the 'High' castes gained arrogance/superiority over the 'low' ones prob. bcos of their nature of work and the wealth/benefit tat they all got from their jobs (esp. in case of the Kshatriyas and Vysyas who earned the most) tat they wud've began to think less of the 'lower' classes(which even Brahmins, in a way, were considered as) as fellow humans and rigidised casteism.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes
    However the evils of the "glorious past" aren't driven out completely and are lurching around in the corner waiting for an opportunity. My fear is that we may provide just that in a platter in trying to decry the "pseudo - secularists" like our honble, Union HRD minister.
    Personally, I might add tat apart from these 'past' evils, sum 'present' evils r also materialising in our society and seeking equal oppurtunities w/ time, which I equally fear we may provide? Well tats my personal thot......

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