Tamil roots of sanskrit words

[F.S.Gandhi vandayar]

Thank you Thiru. Idiappam for revealing the bogus views of Soloman

Readers shall observe his repeated bluffs. Sanskrit language won't have any roots since it is an artificial language. Root words combined with archeology are the main source in interpreting the history.

After Piram & Ekam the godly artificial Sankrit has most of the words from roots ava,aba which also found interchangeable with each other. Words based on ‘Ava’ are lesser than the words from ‘aba’ in Sanskrit. ‘Ava’ is tamil origin since ‘Va’ sound used at the beginning of words is found negligible in north Indian languages.

Ava (Av) is ‘suttu oli’ in tamil – one of the primary communication used in tamil. ‘Ava’ is used as third person / thing which is identified as foreign / farrer thing / new to first and second thing reviewed in mind which are nearer to each other.

Avani – ulakam (world), avan- avvidam(that place), avai / avayam- (persons of distance origin assembled), Avayam kaaththal – adai kaaththal (hen protects to deliver new chickens), aval – a new thing from arisi / choru. ‘Avi’ / aviththal – a new thing created by heating. Avaa / Avaavuthal – desire to attain new things. Avayavam – Uruppu - Extra fittings / elements fitted with body after mind and body.

Sometimes this new things may have aspect of negative to first thing.

avathi / avalam – varuththam (sadness) which is opposite to happiness. Avathooru- Pazhi – bad name also has negative meaning.

Avaai nilai – person in needy (abayam & Abaayam in Sanskrit)
There are lot of words in tamil in this root “Av”. Avvai is one of the words of Ancient tamil.

If we replace this ‘Av’ with ‘Ab’ we will get all Sanskrit words While Sanskrit sometimes use direct tamil words with ‘Av’ roots.
Avatharam / Avathari – used for God’s coming / birth on earth (readymade tamil word)

Avasaram, Avamaanam, Avathanam, avamathi etc. are readymade tamil words that Sanskrit uses.

Abinayam- Abi + nayam = new expressions made in God’s idols.

Abibpirayam – Abi + param + Aayam = The essence of God’s intension (new to ordinary human)

AbiMaanam – Abi + Manam – a love to God who is third to one’s love to himself and his wife

Abimukam – Abi + mukam = meeting with God directly.

Abiyukthan – Abi + uththi + an = Extra ordinary ( distant to ordinary ) knowledged person normally God’s Avathars.

Abiraamam / Abiraami – Abi + aramiyam = God’s meant for beauty. Raman / Paarvathi.

Note : Aramiyam was ancient tamil word to specify Beauty. Aran- Arami-Aramiyam Aran –Arani – Ani ornaments. Aramiyam was used to specify Palace,nila mutram & Green place in earth. This Aramiyam turned ‘Rammiyam’ in Sanskrit.

Abilashai – Abi + Aasai- Extra / new desire normally for God.

Abiviruththi – Abi + Viruththam – Extra / new growth by God’s grace

Abeeshtam – Abi + ittam – Extra / new Bagthi to God.

AbaKeerthi – Abi + Karuththu = new intensions of people created against on someone normally against God.

Readers can add more.

f.s.gandhi

[bis_mala]

Solomon wrote:

Archeology is the best to guide and based on Stone Inscriptions the Tholkappiyam can be never dated earlier than 200-150 BCE, and first Tamil inscriptions are done after Samane North Indians wrote it in their scripts- the Tamil words, Tamil did not have previous scripts, atleast in pre-500 years prior to 500 BCE, Indus Seals, if you cut the Missionaries, 50% read it as Sanskrit and 50% as Proto-Tamil, but with morethan 4000 types of Pictures, they are more Picotorial than Scriptal.

The claimed antiquity of S'krit was itself based on speculation. Historical events like Buddha's passing away, Asoka's missionary work, accounts from travellers from outside India --- from the dates of these events. you have to work back and speculate the Aryans entering India must have come in at least two thousand years before and should have taken at least 2000 years to reach the Gangetic plains issuing the vedas. Hence, 2000 yrs before the Christian Era + 2000 yrs in CE. Buddha's demise is calclulated or speculated by references to whatever records are available from Tibet!!

If one does not believe in Aryan Migration into India - worse still, You cannot use the above speculation method to say when the Vedas were written and when the other works came into existence.

As for Tamil, at least there is a legend / history of Kumari Kandam. S'krit has nothing .

Tamil was always known as Tamil. When you talk of Sanskrit, you have so many different names like Chandasa, Vedic etc., It is disputed whether the other names mean "Sanskrit". Why change names if it is the same language? why many times?

Historians say that it was Sanskrit which did not have a writing system.
Why apply that situation to Tamil?

If the first stone inscription was in 100 CE (for example), that does not mean Tolkappiyam was written in 100 CE. What's the connection?. Tomorrow if another stone insc. is found and it is 10000, would the date of Tolkappiyam become also 10K years old? What's the relevannce??

If Sanskrit is IE, why is it not have a writing system like Greek and Latin - Ah, Bah, Cah, Dah etc.,

If it is not IE, why still depend on the dates speculated on the basis of its IE origin?

[mahadevan]

deva/deiva/theivam, is the root for these the tamil word thee (fire), it is clearly known that we were all nature worshippers, and fire was one of the most sacred (scared too) item of worship, not just in Indian context but else where too. So is it likely that the fire worship resulted in the words deva/deiva/theivam ?

[mahadevan]

About the root of names of the trinity of hindu gods,

Siva (from sivapu 'red' in tamil, the rig translation of it to Rudra (rud, root for red in all IE)is the excellent evidence for it

Narayanan, 'neer' means water in tamil, neeranavan, neerayanam...definetly the root is water

Brahma, this word does not seem to be (atleast to me) like having a tamil root, infact a lot of words in vedic like brahman, brahmin..... seems to be related to it. Brahma is associated to the creation. Was this concept of a necessary creator existing is per vedic, tamil hindu culture ?
The semitic religions have a fixation on creation/creator, so is Brahma some kind of pre semitism introduced by vedic aryans to tamil culture.

[bis_mala]

Brahma, this word does not seem to be (atleast to me) like having a tamil root

piRa = be born, piRappiththal = to give birth, to create as well as procreate.

piRa > bra > bramah.

-mah.: either a word ending or means mother or great. (tamil).

Explained with tamil roots, the meaning is strikingly reasonable and sound. Brings out the meaning well.

p changing to b , Ra changing ra and dropping "i" in the process is nothing new between Sans and Tamil.

Please also be informed that according to Abe Dubois, the French researcher of last century, the word may have come from (A-brah-am)
the prophet Abraham of the Old Testament bible. His theory is that Aryans came from the Middle East to India.

The other deity names you mentioned - you are right and there are authors saying so.

sivaththal - verb. (=become red).
siva +am > siva +(a)m > sivam.

It is the conclusion of Western etymologists that lexical borrowings from another langauge can occur in nouns and not verbs. When a word is directly derivable from a Tamil verbal root, it is definitely Tamil. Furthermore Siva is not an Aryan deity ; they adopted him later from the South.

niir > niiraayinan > naaraayinan: water-god. According to historians the original worshippers of this deity are the fishermen. Womenfolk of these men feared the seas and worshipped niiraayinan > naaraayanan.
Blue seas, blue skies , blue became his colour. (see Pazanthamizar vaRalaaRu by Prof. Ve.Thi. Chellam)

viN > viNNu > VishNu. (sky god). [ also of blue colour ]

Later a fusion took place between ViNNu, niiraayinan etc, and krishNA.

So is it likely that the fire worship resulted in the words deva/deiva/theivam ?

The Latin word "deus" (masculine gender god has been traced to the Tamil word: "thEy" (=to rub against) Friction of stones cause fire.

thEy > thEv > thEvu > thEvan, >thEvi (fem.gen).
thEv > dev (northern languages).
thEy > thEvu > theyvu > theyvam. (Ta)..

The Middle Eastern religions had to progress through a web or multitude of tribal deities - often with conflicts - before eventually arriving at a single god theory. Often the religious leader's tribal god succeeded to become the chief or the only God, suppressing the rest or throwing them into oblivion. The single god emergence contributed to the incorporation of various tribes into one larger community. You may be able to come across books on these in your university or other libraries.

It appears that there were fire worshippers or those doing reverance to fire in Middle East. Such practices were almost always suppressed at great cost as related to devil worship by latter day religions. One would not expect to find any now. Niniveh might have been one of the places closely associated with fire worship.

[Idiappam]

Brahma, this word does not seem to be (atleast to me) like having a tamil root

piRa = be born, piRappiththal = to give birth, to create as well as procreate.

piRa > bra > bramah.

Bramah is usually Tamilised as 'paraman' not 'piRaman' or 'piraman'. The Tamil root seems to be 'para' - (wide)

paramanaip paaduvaar adiyaarkku adiyEn... (Sundaramoorthy Nayanaar)

[bis_mala]

paramanaip paaduvaar adiyaarkku adiyEn... (Sundaramoorthy Nayanaar)

You are au fait with Tamil bakti ilakkiyam as I notice from your partaking in other threads.

Would you consider Manickavasagar to be referring to Sivan, Brahman or just the supreme being at large?

[Idiappam]

paramanaip paaduvaar adiyaarkku adiyEn... (Sundaramoorthy Nayanaar)

You are au fait with Tamil bakti ilakkiyam as I notice from your partaking in other threads.

No so, I am not so much into bakti. Just that I messed around too much with the Othuvars at Tank Road Temple here during my younger days - their singing keep ringing in me.

Would you consider Manickavasagar to be referring to Sivan, Brahman or just the supreme being at large?

Manickavasagar - specifically? Thiruvasagam is classified "thOthiram" meaning 'devotional'. So you can see in it, concepts of supreme god Siva, attributes and description of Him, alongside praises filled with some episodes from puranas. More often Manickvasagar refer to Siva as the supreme being at large.

I will glance through my Thiruvasagam - perhaps the first three chapters and come up with quotes - we will see what Manickavagar says. Meanwhile two lines from him....

paraman kANka! pazhaiyOn kANka!
piramanmAl kANAp periyOn kANka!
---- thiruvandapaguthi - Thiruvasagam

Here piraman is lesser than paraman .....

back in a few hours with more lines

[bis_mala]

thank you idiappam sir! further research - please take your time. no hurry. In the meantime we shall enjoy with a few more words:


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[bis_mala]

thOththiram

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