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Thread: Combating Corruption in developing countries

  1. #1
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber jaiganes's Avatar
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    Combating Corruption in developing countries

    After one more buget in India, people are hailing the generous allotments to social sectors like health care services and food for rural poor. As usual as the budget, voices are heard from one quarter as to how much of this much needed money reaches the poor of this country really? Rajiv Gandhi , it was who startled the nation by saying that only 15% of the mone allotted for poor really reaches the poor.The situation is no different in many other developing nations around us. The questions this thread wishes to raise are:
    1. What are the root causes of corruption?
    2. What is the actual impact of corruption on common people?
    3. Is there no solution for corruption?
    4. Is democracy a hurdle in weeding out corruption?
    5. What can elements of civil society do to remove corruption?
    6. What can the common man do to combat corruption?
    Much of these points have been discussed threadbare and beaten to death in media. Let those discussions of the past be the steps on which we will continue ours. Have your say. To facilitate proper serious discussions and also to extract solid points and suggestions every month a consolidated review will be made out of the discussion and posted in all leading newspapers of india. A copy will be posted in prime minister of india's site and also to the president of india website. Members of other countries may choose to do the same for their country. If they feel that their country has tackled corruption in a better way, let them post it and thier suggestions will find a place in the monthly review. Let the lights be lit, let the brightness spread and chase the darkness away. As a precursor to this discussion please read the following article as it consolidates most of the points already.
    Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
    - Gore Vidal

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber jaiganes's Avatar
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    What steps has the indian government taken to free itself of corruption?
    In the case of corruption, it is a strange disease that affects the government but the effects are to be borne by common men and women of the country. The person having disease has to be examined and treated by a doctor who himself is free of the concerned disease. To do just that Indian government has set up a Central Vigilance Commission, which is currently headed by P.Shankar. Here is the link to CVC. CVC takes complaints from common citizens if the department to be investigated is under central government. for more details, visit the site of CVC.
    Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
    - Gore Vidal

  4. #3
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    In a country like India with a bursting at the seams population,huge differences between different sections of people in terms like education,life style etc,the complete neglect of villages(esp in agriculture)&the subsequent migration to cities,caste clashes,lack of unity etc etc etc,corruption has become a way of life.Everybody is trying to accumulate material wealth despite the fact that they might be academically less qualified,might not have a well paid job etc&that is why the desire to earn money by crooked means. A deep rooted spirituality&contenment in life has become nonexistant.Add to that the fact that the majority does not look at 'India'as their country-there are way too many divisions on the basis of caste,religion,language etc.under these circumstances corruption is bound to be there like other things like spitting&defacating(spelling mistake ) on the roads,indisipline,rash driving,utter contempt for the law etc.Personally my opinion is that no amount of laws&punishments will act as a deterrent as we are intelligent enough to find a loop hole.To start with the right kind of people should rule which will happen only when the majority vote on the basis of merit&nothing else.then there should be unity&a feeling of oneness in terms of 'our country','our city','our road'etc.Development should be spread&not concentrated in certain cities,People should be encouraged to stay in the villages-agriculture&other means of living should be provided to them,the environment should be protected so that droughts,floods etc don't become the order of the day&most importantly people themselves should become more honest.Will all this happen&if yes when?GOD ONLY KNOWS.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber jaiganes's Avatar
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    Cinefan wrote:
    most importantly people themselves should become more honest
    People are generally lazy and corrupt. Unles the fear of law is in place, they will not change. Current malaise is due to the fact that the finger that is pointing a blot is not stain free. It also is smeared. To enable change, the campaign against corruption should start from the top.
    Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
    - Gore Vidal

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    Senior Member Seasoned Hubber
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaiganes
    People are generally lazy and corrupt. Unles the fear of law is in place, they will not change. Current malaise is due to the fact that the finger that is pointing a blot is not stain free. It also is smeared. To enable change, the campaign against corruption should start from the top.
    I beg to differ with you Jai,honest rulers will never emerge from dishonest people.Rulers are not from a different planet,they are there between you&me.'yatha raja thatha praja'was in a monarchy,in a democracy it is 'yatha praja thatha raja'.Honest people will bring in honest corporators,MLA's,MP's&the change will start happening.Even that is a very long drawn process but how will the start happen in the present circumstances?To be very frank,I am very pessimistic of India becoming a better country unless there is 'Total revolution&cleansing'which the present set of population will never do.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber
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    Questions on Corruption....?

    Corruption is a Mighty-Monster which can severely beat down the Economy and Financial-Stability of not only any Government but allso even in a single family, if it is beseiged by that Devil.

    Although the below-mentioned Questions have been deeply analysed and several Seminars Reports and Scholarly discussions had been held so far... exhaustively... by the Professionals like Economists and such other Finbancial-Experts.... No palpable Solution to this Sickly Menace have been practically found or implemented so far effectively.... pertaining to India.

    No doubt by means of some sensible measures from Mr. Manmohan Singh along with Mr. Chidambaram... since Mr. Narasima-Rao's period, it has come under control upto some extent.

    But still ... the past Accomplishment is Insignificant... when compared to the Magnitude of the task yet to be completed... to achieve the Ultimate Goal and Target.

    Because most of such Proposals are far from Realities and thus leading to Unfeasibility on the Field.

    Why So?.... Mainly because the major part of the Data... are Theoretical... as also the Theoretical Persons handling the causes. It can be truly understood and solved only with the LEADERSHIP of the Sociologists... who only are quite close and proximate to both the sides of the Giver and Taker.

    Is there No Solution at all?... Can this Disease NOT be Eradicated?

    Positively if approached... it can be solved by means of concerted and Co-operative endeavour from all the sides concerned..

    Now... I will put forth my Answers to these Questions...

    What is the actual impact of corruption on common people?

    (a) It leads to Price-Escalation... unduly and irrationally.... thus Flouting the Countries Budget Targets and Implementation- Schemes... and even the Rudimentary factors of day to day Economy.....

    (b)It affects the Common-man due to irrationally heavy increase in Cost of Living. The worst affected Victim is the Poor...being made poorer innocently and unjustly... for no fault of him

    (c) In the International-market arena the Nation cannot firmly stand with a firm-foot due to its incompetitive price.... Which results in stagnation of Products or Loss to the Government.

    (d) When compared to any other other World Nation, India is a country of unusual public set-up with an contra-distinctory living conditions as well as the mosaic pattern of people of wide varieties. The extreme opposite conditions as seen in India... cannot be seen anywhere else to such an extent and Degree.

    So to say... Mainly...

    (i) The Highest land Himalayas... and the lowest Sea-level... at Andamans, and Kanya-kumari..

    (ii) The Coldest city Simla and the Hottest in Rajasthan

    (iii) Highest degree of Illiteracy in Sikkim and the Lowest in Kerala

    (iv) Heaviest Rainfall in the World in Assam and Nil Rains ever... in Jaisalmer in Rajasthan.

    (iv) Richest Millionaire and the Poorest down-trodden far below the Minimum Human-Susbsistence-Level amongst the same Country people resulting in high Contrast

    Consequently.... the problems are multi-fold and inter-depenant as also much complicated unlike any other Country.. So any Scheme advantageous to one side is the opposite to another section or sections...

    ...which peculiar State of affairs does not exist in any other World Nation to such a degree.

    However... emulating partly the Fore-running examples of USA, France and Swizerland...

    ..and partly by carving out a unique ploicy as relevant and applicable to Indian conditions...

    ... this Healthy Goal can become a Success.

    Because the major Chunk of the National earnings are reaching some Dark-Pockets.... so far .. unduly ... and undeservingly.

    Apart from indefinite Economy by Stagnant Products....being unsold or under-cost-sold

    ... and Increasing Cost of Living... making the Working-class poorer and poorer ...unjustly.

    ... as also the avoidable Escalation of Working-Cost of the Products. unreasonably.

    Mainly because of CORRUPTION... in most of the functional areas.

    By eradicating Corruption... a major Disease... or at least by restraint upto the minimum...

    India can become an ADVANCED NATION ... Fast .. and Soon....!!!... How?

    To Continue.....
    Most INVALUABLE TREASURE is.. Time.
    Spend it MEANINGFULLY Spread effectively.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber jaiganes's Avatar
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    Since Sudhaama is here and Cinefan is also quoting some sanskrit slokas, let me break open this discussion further and along controversial line a bit. Advise me if you find this a digression and I will stop it right there.
    How much of this prevalence and don't care attitude of common man to it a result of Hindu religious beliefs?
    For example, the karma theory and next birth. Surely affected people do not go the extra mile to see the offending corrupt person is punished. Rather he/she adopts a meek line of thought and says his bad karma will punish him or GOD will take care of him instead of steadfastly applying himself/herself to the task of reporting and fighting it out legally. Currently people with sufficient political background and monetary power alone seem to be fighting against corruption byan individual. These people, it seems can be bought over and compromised easily as they are not fighting a personal battle. When are our religious leaders going to advice public to fight corruption(which is an evil right before eyes) instead of fighting an abstract evil? Do you think if the acharyas, maulvis , priests in our temples, mosques and churches ask people to take corruption head on this problem will be solved?
    Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
    - Gore Vidal

  9. #8
    Senior Member Senior Hubber lordstanher's Avatar
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    Guys,
    W/ the inputs tat u hav provided, I'm sure tat I need not provide ne introduction to corruption or its effects.....!
    Cinefan, ur cent % rite abt the 'yatha praja tatha raja' saying! On reading this, I feel like asking our ppl.-
    Y did we kick out the Brits from our country at all??
    Wat use was it in getting ourselves a democracy to govern us??......we mite as well've been a monarchy for all these years
    Its become very common 4 most of us to blame evrything on the govt. and politicians alone thanx to our own wretched 'chalta-hai' attitude
    We just say this & forget tat the common man makes up the larger part of the society as opposed to the govt.....but of course lone individuals cannot take ne major steps against such social evils so our country can improve only if everyone in today's society wakes up and works united to lift it up......but I personally doubt if today's India can wake up to such a challenge cos I've lost all confidence in this regard, looking at today's Indian society.....let's ask ourselves- how many Indians living in India itself really care abt India??
    Most of the present gen. is living in a fool's paradise, magnifying the minute fame tat our countryz achieveing due to the IT sector (and no, Indiaz not the leader in IT, as ppl. say......its leading in IT professionals only, mainly cos they r cheaper to hire!).....and half of them r busy chasing the American dream (which they don't mind achieveing by corrupt means as well!).....while a remaining 1/4th of them r successful in bringing to India the worst or most useless parts of the West, such as pubs, pornography, Valentine's Day and so on.....to sum it up, they just don't give a damn abt the way the countryz turning out.....
    And so long as this is wat today's and tomorrow's India is, we mite as well continue building castles in air abt a socially and morally developed India!
    Take Singapore for eg., or China (even bigger than India), which were as poor as India not more than 40-50 yrs ago, but since then they have miraculously come up from the status of 3rd world to 1st world countries......mainly bcos the ppl. here had all unanymously worked to bring abt a change in their countries w/ or w/out the govt.'s guidance.....ultimately it was all in the ppl.!

  10. #9
    Senior Member Veteran Hubber jaiganes's Avatar
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    Lordstanher!
    I agree with your sentiments while I beg to differ on the final notes that u have put up.

    1. Question of Singapore and malaysia:
    Corruption under control because the area to be controlled and the population in question is lesser and therefore weeding out corruption is easy. Also there is no question of human rights when it comes to law enforcement. The other way around is the case in India. When somebody brings up Singapore argument, I always give them this analogy. A class of 35 with two teachers and two monitors. It is a dream situation! Govt makes a decision and there is no debate, everybody accepts as political fragmentation among 35 people is far lesser compared to 90 people.
    2. Question of China:
    Sorry! it is no democracy and we cannot compare them either in spite of being in a similar position as far as population is concerned.

    The model we have to follow is either American or British when it comes to combating corruption and sadly that is why there are committees and sub committees at various levels. Although there seems to be one way out legally. It is by stregthening the arms of all independant agencies involved in routing out corruption. The Central VigilanceCommission is currently a committee and it can be made an independant bureau like CBI and more powers for it to act according to a single law across states and union territories.
    Morally and socially it is up to the religios and political leaders to bring out the combative spirit of people against corruption. Our religious leaders must give an open call to ask people no to tolerate corruption even if it is not affecting them directly.
    Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates.
    - Gore Vidal

  11. #10
    Moderator Veteran Hubber Badri's Avatar
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    Would like to start with a question...is India the only country in all of the world to be afflicted by this malaise?

    Guess the answer has to be a NO. It is there everywhere...problem with us Indians is we parade it as though it is a virtue, with the result everyone is quick to point fingers at us.

    There is corruption in the US - reports are emerging of scandals in the hightest places...

    One issue got prominence in UK - about someone getting a visa for a nanny or something...don't quite remember..quoting it just to show it is prevalent.

    Money cannot be too far away from corruption. Money is the root of all evil, they say. Artham Anartham, sang Adi Sankara.

    If we understand this equation, things become clear.

    Money+Power+Desire = Corruption.

    Especially desire that overwhelms values such as honesty and integrity.

    Have you read these detective novels of yesteryears? Like Agatha Christie, or Perry Mason series...the detective will jump into a cab and say,

    "Follow that cab. I will give you a tenner if you can make it there on time..."

    I used to wonder, what is this? Is this bribery? Are you willing to pay more so that the driver will get you there within time, even if it means driving more rashly than he would?

    Have you ever tipped a waiter more than you would usually tip, perhaps hoping he would do a better service when you come back again?

    Or paid that hired help a little more than he actually asked for, so that he would be readily available the next time you need him?

    Are these harmless things, or do these classify under corruption? At the very least, are these not the seeds of corruption? The waiter or the cabbie or the hired help didnt really ask for the extra money, but you gave it nevertheless and in doing so, instituted a culture of more for better/faster so that what started as an innocent reward becomes a culture of bribery to get things done.

    Even the peon in the government office who asks for bakshish to place your file right on the top - well, he is not really corrupt is he? Yes it is his job, but he's just expecting a tip for a service well done.

    So, when we view it this way, what do you people think?
    When we stop labouring under the delusion of our cosmic self-importance, we are free of hindrance, fear, worry and attachment. We are liberated!!!

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