A shame

[a.ratchasi]

Any boy and girl child should be taught on differentiating between good touch and bad ones.

It is a necessity nowdays to teach children to protect themselves.

If they feel uncomfortable around certain people, as adults, the onus is on us to find out what is causing them the uneasyness.

Besides, anyone around us could be a perv, be it a close family member, a distant relative or a stranger.

Ideally, the child should be bold enough to approach his or her parents if encountered a perv.

[Sandeep]

Parents should understand that parenting is not just feeding their children, or giving what they want.

Here in case of the Victims parents they should have made sure that their daughter feels free with them and can disclose all her problems.

As for the parents of the Accused, they should have taught them dicipline, respect/love for others.

Parenting in not just a personal think it is a social responcibility too.

[Querida]

I know that most parents would like to protect their child from all harm...now Scorpio i will tell you from a child's view that however much you are and Badri are strict at home...it is education that is more important...don't make such sleaze television programs unacceptable you only encourage the seemingly exciting taboo element of it rather educate, and ask of your children to be responsible there is no good reason for them to get influenced by sleaze if they have a educated view....and if not at home (even if they do not want to) they will learn it elsewhere...dont make the bad look tempting rather show it for the filth it is...let your child be responsible....i have seen too many cases of parents being too strict and their child (even though a good child) goes down the wrong path....please parents NEVER think my child is not like that ONE (that doesnt mean being overly suspicious but building up stereotypes about another and letting your own go to ruin) or that could never happen to my child because i am in control! and worse please DO NOT compare your child's behaviour to another child/sibling/cousin....because just as your child may make her/his mistakes known to you...you do not know the faults of the other...(you would be surprised how many parents dont know or ignore what troubles their child gets into whatever age) it really hurts a child when you compare...eventually this only leads to resentment even when you are trying to teach them the right thing to do

if children respects their parent they will fear in their hearts of hearts to do wrong...and hence think harder on it beacuse they will know how it will hurt their loving parent
if they fear their parent they are morely likely to feel liberated in overcoming that fear even if it is to do something bad...

i'm sorry maybe i am being to naive but from a child's view and experience this is what i want to contribute

[Badri]

Q

You are right on! Putting something out of reach only makes you want it all the more.

But...yes, you knew there was a but coming, didnt you...but tell me, are not the laws the world over clear on certain things? Does not every country believe children should be protected from viewing, even by chance, things that may impact their impressionable minds? Are not people made punishable for showing or otherwise making available to minors indecent literature, photographs or other explicit information? It is with this same view point that I made my statement as well.

You say if a person has an educated view, there is no good reason for him/her to be influenced by sleaze. But again, there are some primal urges in all of us that require no prompting. They act on their own, educated view or not. But while this can be put off till a certain mental maturity is attained, to put it in their reach even before they know right from wrong - that is not acceptable at all.

A child's point of view is all fine and dandy...the great problem of today is that we are giving too much importance to the child's POV, without understanding how limited the child's POV really is. There is moderation in everything, including discipline, but at the same time, moderation should not become laxity. It is for parents to take the call on how moderate or extreme they wish to be, given all the environmental conditions that surround them.

[Querida]

Yes sir i thought hmmm what's that an agreement ok what's this all about got scared till i saw the but... :P

anyways yes you all must forgive for having gone on so passionately...i did mean parents with just little kids...but i guess i still have to answer to what was written

yes there are certain laws but they do not keep us confined to our houses in fear that we will disobey them...i meant sleaze tv as in the more than enuff modern dancing numbers and MTV not Porn! Good God not that!

no GOOD reason as in no one could say i didn't know that...they do know but that they give in cannot be disputed...i am not saying it will not happen but can we really make sure things like this never happen? I am not saying that to show them all sleaze at a young age is ok i am only saying not to utterly forbid...and yes do give them a reason why instead of just no cause i said so! That doesn't mean that punishing them if you catch them at it is wrong either...but appropriate punishment for appropriate circumstances like no tv for a day or two not beating the child...

Yes i agree moderation should not become laxity and it is the parent's call but do remember that extreme still doesn't mean always being suspicious and insinuating blame for every move

I don't know if i answered all your questions/comments efficiently but i am glad that you took the time to actually read my post and point out the flaws...it shows that atleast i am being taken seriously...do reply again

[Cygnus]

Badri, I just read thru this thread, I guess I know where the post in the other thread about child's POV came from.


It was an empirical statement, not meant to offend concerned parents!!
As someone who grew up in era where a child's POV didn't mean squat, I guess I tend to focus on it. Of course, "moderation" is the key, if one can figure what exactly is considered moderation,; it is definitely bound to sway a great deal on either side depending on the perspective

[Badri]

A serious discussion merits being taken seriously, don't you agree?

The whole point with things like this is pretty much subjective, and as such no general rules can be drawn.

There are families that will raise eyebrows if a son as much as gets a call from a girl who studies in the same class. Then again, there are families where mothers actually talk to sons about how to actually do "it".

But the only point I wish to drive home is this - parenting is an individual and social responsibility. The incident that started off this discussion was a direct result of poor parenting. So, the consequences of that did not stop with the one family. It has gone and affected an innocent girl and her family and her circle of friends...

The fundamental question - what went wrong?

The urge to dominate - politically, emotionally, financially, sexually - is also deep rooted within most males. Portraying that on TV or in films is not helping matters, only worsening it, because the jeuvenile male then gets the message clearly seared in his brain that not only is this right, it is actually the cool thing to do.


Ok, so you and I can't go and stop the film makers, but we can act within our sphere of influence - our children. In two ways.

a) Act to make sure they are protected
b) Act to make sure they grow up to be decent, and not a threat to others

Yes, you can impress upon them the truth, educate them, beat them over the head with it, but if at the end of the day, you are going to give them opportunities to do the wrong thing, chances are they will do it...you don't need Murphy to tell you that, with his immortal laws.

Some of the hip-swivelling movements are so gross (don't take me to be a prude, please...but some movements are positively vulgar) that they are not the things I want my children to imitate, at least, not until they are ready for it, because after that, it is entirely their choice, and there is precious little I can do about it. After all, I am not training them to be monks and nuns.

But that said, I'd rather they grow up within certain bounds so that they at least get to the point of making intelligent choices. Some mistakes in life can be too costly, and nothing you do afterwards can really make amends. I would not, nor would any sane parent, like their child to end up making one of those mistakes. And whatever is in my control to ensure that - I will do.

Phew! Now, I got to get back to work...

[Badri]

Cygnus said:

Badri, I just read thru this thread, I guess I know where the post in the other thread about child's POV came from.

There, I am not alllowed to work in peace...now, I have to respond to this one...damm, hubbing is addictive! They ought have to put up a notice in the registration page...Moderators, please take note!! Get something that says, "Signing up could be ruinous to your work. You have been warned"

Anyway, Cygnus, I agree with you - we all grew up in an age where our POVs meant nothing at all. But I tell ya, that is why we are what we are, and where we are.

Your child (if you have one, that is..if not, your future child) probably thinks being an engine driver is the coolest job in the whole world...that's what he will say for about a month after his first trip on a train "I want to be an engine driver when I grow up"

But that is only till he sees the fireman, for as every child knows, that is the coolest job ever! And so on and so forth, till finally dictated by terms more practical and definitely more lucrative, he probably ends up being a globe-trotting, hip and upwardly mobile software engineer.

There is nothing more pliable in all the world as a child's mind. It is most definitely not the right thing to base decisions upon. Which was why I came out against the child's POV. Come, come, after all, I was a child not too long ago...and sometimes, still think am.

[Roshan]

Moderators, please take note!! Get something that says, "Signing up could be ruinous to your work. You have been warned"

Good one !! but I'm sure most of us would click the 'ignore' button and start proceeding

[jaiganes]

After having gone through the heated arguments in this thread, things are more clearer. Just to organize my thoughts, let me restate certain things. There are distinctively 3 elements in the aforesaid incident.
1. victim
2. aggressors(the boys)
3. parents
4. Media.

Surely Media is an indrect catalyst to the whole incident.
Parents are supposed to be the watchdogs who must have prevented such a shameful thing from happening.
victim and aggressors in this case are both innocent children who surely know not what they are doing. Neither the boys who hurt the girl knew that violence they were propagating was of psychological nature, nor the girl knew that suicide is a perfect solution. Media and Parents surely must have been more mature and protected these kids from wavering and losing their precious lives.
Focussing more on media, the portrayal of women victims and their decision in popular media like cinema and TV serials leaves a lot to be desired. In both these popular media, the course of action of any woman victim takes is either to marry the aggressor (yuck!) or to end her life(pathetic and which is what this girl has done). cinema from time immemorial has portrayed that ending life in face of victimisation is the only way to save oneself from dishonour. Turning to TV serials, similar line of thought permeates here too, sadly.
Parents, are supposed to show Love and care to children. Modern day parents(not all) are simply parents because they must have children or else the society will laugh at them. I have seen mothers feeding their babies by showing TV(!!) Now further complexities are added to the picture with more nuclear families with no grandparents to guide young children. TV it seems is the father, mother, grandparents, friend all combined these days. To expect un preverted psyches from these TV parented children is very difficult. victims we see are actually TV victims and perverts who abuse are also direct products of TV and media. Parents are just payors of rent and providers of food these days.
How to end this problem? Like scorpio says and does, remove TV from children. make them feel "REAL" people and less of "TV people". Take them to a park on sundays instead of malls and multiplexes. in short relieve the TV of surrogate parent status and assume parenting seriously, much more than the urge to stay back for half an hour in office to please your boss (this is for fathers who seem to be weekend uncles for most of the kids). Media is a devil you can't slay, better keep your flock safe from it.