Evolution of Saivaism and it's development in Tamil Nadu

[mahadevan]

Devapriya accepts those international scholars of (dis)repute that sing her tune.

[devapriya]

Friends,
The Purananuru Song 166 sung by ç÷ ãÄí ¸¢Æ¡÷ about §º¡½¡ðÎô âﺡüê÷ô À¡÷ôÀ¡ý ¦¸ª½¢Âý and this is in ШÈ: À¡÷ÀÀÉ Å¡¨¸.


¿ý È¡öó¾ ¿£û ¿¢Á¢÷º¨¼
ÓÐ Ó¾øÅý Å¡ö §À¡¸¡Ð,
´ýÚ ÒÃ¢ó¾ ®Ã¢ ÃñÊý,
Ú½÷ó¾ ´Õ ÓÐáø
This refers to Vedic Shiva. ´ýÚ ÒÃ¢ó¾ ®Ã¢ ÃñÊý- 2 x 2 = 4 Vedas.
Vedas has Six Branches called ஆறு அங்கங்கள்- They are also named in Manimekhalai, even few with Author’s name. This SONG is praising Vedas and Brahmins of the day and all confirm Truths, which are Confirmed by Thani-Tamil Scholars like Pavanar and SalaiIlanthiraianar.

Shiva is mostly been related to Vedas in Sangam Literature.

As for Scholars and acceptances, I just want you to look in to the link given by K.P.Aravinthan’s Thread and Thirukual Research articles Thread, morethan 40 Price winning Articles on Kural are there, None uses Pavanar, Marai malai Aadigal, PTS , Appadurai who are highly sectarian views. More When Newer and newer informations come, the Scholars can leave the Old mis-conceptions and come to more natural truths. Example- Maritmer Wheeler a Scholar of high Repute in Archaeology misinterpreted RigVeda- and also Indus Findings – saying this Verse of Cities being Hunted, many killed- such wars are the reasons for Saraswathi Valley’s demise. Complete Opposite to the Truths, None of the findings prove anything, and Rig Verses also do not say a War, is the correct interpretation.

Further to Burrows Lexicon claiming many Indo-European words as Dravidian, the research by otherside proved :

Yes, indeed. The Dravidian Etymological Dictionary of Burrow and Emeneau contains over 5,000 etyma and it has been shown that over 4,000 of these etyma have Indo-Aryan, Munda cognates (cf. http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/Indian_Lexicon which contains over 8,000 semantic clusters.)

But even today Quoting PTS,Pavanar and Wheeler etc., when further more research opinions have come, is the method adopted by Thani-Tamil and its inspirations as Kannada Mr.Prakash article and I can answer them myself or contact experts and then reply that in an appropriate threads.

Please maintain these thread for Shiva and Saivam only.

DEVAPRIYA

[bis_mala]

Shiva is mostly been related to Vedas in Sangam Literature.

There is no Siva or SHiva is Vedas. He is "discovered" there only through interpretation of some scholars. Siva =? Rudra.

On the other hand, you have been contending that Siva is not a Tamil word and Siva does not therefore exist in Sangam Lit.

Your quoted statement is therefore a paradox.

You are therefore saying: 0 + 0 = 1.

OR IT MAY BE THAT YOU ARE CHANGING SLOWLY.- for the better or for the worse?

[devapriya]

Dear Friends,

I HAVE quoted Tamil Scholars and a book with the Introduction of Prof.MAthiwanan, and also from Cambridge University Scholar- the very name Shiva and Linga Worships are in Vedas.

Sangam does not have the name; wHAT IS YOUR Problem?

Why do you want to distirb Indian Unity as the Christian Missionaries. by Artificial Dravidiayan race myths.

Let us look at Shive in both.
Devapriya

[bis_mala]

Dear Friends, I HAVE quoted Tamil Scholars and a book with the Introduction of Prof.MAthiwanan, and also from Cambridge University Scholar- the very name Shiva and Linga Worships are in Vedas.

Tamil scholars (not every) are conditioned by their own religious and political beliefs. The Europeans learnt from the Tamil scholars and poets. So they follow their teachers. Hence you need to be objective. Siva is a Tamil word. Linga worship grew up in TN. Siva (verb) > sivaththal. siva+ an = sivan. This etymology is in accord with the fact other deity names such as chEyOn, chevvEL all have red colour as the theme. Linga > ilingkam cognate with ilanguthal, (oLi cheythal).

Sangam does not have the name; wHAT IS YOUR Problem?

Do you know that a lot of vulgar words used in Tamil (heard when some low people abuse each other ) are also not in Sangam or Tolkappiyam. Do you want to claim them all for Sanskrit? Please wake up your ideas.

Why do you want to distirb Indian Unity as the Christian Missionaries. by Artificial Dravidiayan race myths.

You are breaking Indian unity by saying Tamil has no place in the consideration of sivam and lingam etc., Dravidian is a family of languages. I never said it is a race.

Let us look at Shive in both.

What do you mean by this? That Sivan belongs to Tamil and Sanskrit??

[devapriya]

Friends,

We need to understand that We do not have a Single Sentence of Lit, which is Pre-Vedic.

So to say separate Dravidian or Tamil are meaningless Bluffs.

Friends, please go through my post in Tirukural Thread page19, in Tamil Literature.

Siva is the Vedic Head and has been absorbed to Tamil.

Devapriya

[bis_mala]

Friends, please read in the same thread those replies from me and other hubbers after reading Devapriya's bluff. You can confirm for yourself the extent of her lies!!

Vedas were in oral tradition for a long time (estimated 1500yrs) and were reduced to writing 400 ACE or so!!

Tolkappiyam is pre-Vedic. Many Sangam stanzas are pre-Vedic.

Veda is from Tam: "vetham". A Tamil word.

[devapriya]

Dear Friends,

Bismala doesnot undewrstand what is replied, every his of blabber is replied.

These Dubious Thani Tamil Scholars took few odd verses positive only about Tamil Civilisation and extensively used Kural for their Highly Partial works.
I give-Historian M. G. S. Narayanan, who finds in Sangam literature –
“no trace of another, indigenous, culture other than what may be designated as tribal and primitive.” And concludes :
“The Aryan-Dravidian or Aryan-Tamil dichotomy envisaged by some scholars may have to be given up since we are unable to come across anything which could be designated as purely Aryan or purely Dravidian in the character of South India of the Sangam Age. In view of this, the Sangam culture has to be looked upon as expressing in a local idiom all the essential features of classical “Hindu” culture. M. G. S. Narayanan, “The Vedic-Puranic-Shastraic Element in Tamil Sangam Society and Culture,” in Essays in Indian Art, Religion and Society, p. 128.

Nilakanta Sastri goes a step further and opines,
“There does not exist a single line of Tamil literature written before the Tamils came into contact with, and let us add accepted with genuine appreciation, the Indo-Aryan culture of North Indian origin.” “THE HARAPPAN] RELIGION IS SO CHARACTERISTICALLY INDIAN AS HARDLY TO BE DISTINGUISHED FROM STILL LIVING HINDUISM.”

Colin Renfrew, Professor of Archaeology at Cambridge, Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins, Cambridge University Press, 1988,
“IT IS DIFFICULT TO SEE WHAT IS PARTICULARLY NON-ARYAN ABOUT THE INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION.”

Kenoyer, Jonathan Mark, Ancient Cities of the Indus Valley Civilization (Karachi & Islamabad : Oxford University Press & American Institute of Pakistan Studies, 1998) -“MANY SCHOLARS HAVE TRIED TO CORRECT THIS ABSURD THEORY [OF AN ARYAN INVASION], BY POINTING OUT MISINTERPRETED BASIC FACTS, INAPPROPRIATE MODELS AND AN UNCRITICAL READING OF VEDIC TEXTS. HOWEVER, UNTIL RECENTLY, THESE SCIENTIFIC AND WELL-REASONED ARGUMENTS WERE UNSUCCESSFUL IN ROOTING OUT THE MISINTERPRETATIONS ENTRENCHED IN THE POPULAR LITERATURE.”

devapriya

[Eelavar]

Sangam litterature is very old as the vedic one...

There must be a strong relationship between the two literrature..

[virarajendra]

This article has been newly edited