Significance of the Maasi Maham-Siva & Sakthi Valipaadu

[viggop]

This is the best attitude.Leave people to interpret things in thier own ways which makes them happy.As long as no one does anything against the law,havinbg different views is perfectly acceptable.

[pradheep]

I don't object to anyone's beliefs! I just voice my views, raise questions and leave it if there is no response.

Dearidiappam
and what if soemone like respond?. You will then accept only those you ring the same bell as you?. Wont you use your brain and analyze ifthe opposing views make sense?

what is the use in raising questions?. Is it for just time pass or to understand or to offend others. If I explain your questions why are you adamant for not giving a thought? The marathil song from maamatha yanai is not my interpretation. I look at the context at which the song appears. Look at 2288 to 2290. You will understand that it talks about giving up the Ego-awareness to understand the self. As long as one is in the Ego-awareness state one cannot understand spiritual wisdom. One's Ego will then busy seeing only the difference among spiritual traditions and never the one-ness.

[pradheep]

Love is seeing God in the person next to us, and meditation is seeing God within us - Sri Sri Ravi Sankar

[Uthappam]

What a wonderful thing by Sir Sir Ravi! I can see, I can see.

[pradheep]

Explain this Advaitham,Duvaitham and Vishshtathvaitham through Paramathma & Geevathma cocept. Then You will come to know the difference.

Non-duality is advaitam.....which means there is no difference in Jiva-Atma and Parama- Atma. Whatever we see as difference is only an illusion (maya). Now illusion cannot be literally be taken. Illusion does not means that nothing exist , but there is an error in the understanding. Like the thirumandiram song… the illusion of the form blocked the understanding about the real wood.

In vishit advaitam…….qualified non-dualism….the Jiva and Param are same , but not one, but will merge when the Jiva gets moksha and merges with the Param.

In Dwaita- the Jiva and param are totally different and are like master and slave and will merge to one-ness in Moksha.

So in all the three, the Jiva and Parama-atma merge to one-ness. Here they are all have no contradiction. But the last two differ from Advaita in one aspect. Advaita says moksha is here and now and not in a place called heaven or vaikunda. Advaita says you are looking at the form and creating an error, like looking at the wood and forgetting the true nature you talk about the forms. The forms are maya (dependant upon some-thing else, has no independent existence). Advaita says we need only an Error-correction in our understanding.

[Badri]

Pradeep: A small correction to what you have posted.

But before that, a quick background - I am not too familiar with the Dwaita philosophy, so I wil not comment on that. I am very familiar with Adwaita, it being the school I personally subscribe to, and what you've said is what Adwaita is. However, I belong to the Vishitadwaita school by birth and lineage and therefore have more than a passing acquaintance with its concepts.

The vishistadwaita (VA) concept is not merger. Yes, Sayjuya Mukti is part of the Vishistadwaita creed, but ultimately, it is believed the Jiva continues to exist seperately from the Param, serving the Lord eternally in His Sri Vaikuntham. As Nithyasooris, the Jiva that has attained Moksha lives in the same world as him (Salokyam), close to him, (Sameepyam), of the same resplendent form as him (Sarupyam). In fact, it is said Nityasooris even have the Sankha-Chakra-Gadha-Padma of the Lord and resemble Him in every respect, but are still servitors.

Besides, VA declares that the Jiva is the body of the Paramathma. Just as Jivas have bodies, so too does the Paramathma have the Jivas as bodies. The bodies do not merge into the soul!! Hence, according to VA, neither does the Jiva merge into the Paramathma. The Jiva continues its seperate existence, but forever enjoying the bliss of His Company!

[pradheep]

Dear Badri

Vibeeshan asks Hanuman in Ramayan, what is his connection to Rama. He said at body level he is a slave to Lord rama and at mind level he is part of him (Jiva) and at the Atma level both are atma, no-duality.

So advaita identifies us to paramatma at atma level. VA talks at mind level and so is a part. Dwaitam talks at level of the body, then both are different.

Hope you got the understanding of the three.

[r_kk]

Hi Badri,
You are more correct. Pradeep is trying his best to unite all the concepts of Hinduism under advaitham. The adviatham concept is somewhat similar to scientifically discarded concept of “luminiferous aether”, which was assumed to be the basic constitutes of every thing.

Advaitham teaches every thing (matter, energy, thinking process, paramathma, jeevathama etc etc) is nothing but one and our wrong understanding makes us to believe each one as different. Such concept is not practical. There are so many real life difficulties with Advaitha concept. I hope you might have heard the story of “Advaithi” jumped in to well to escape from a chasing tiger. I personally faced a situation (similar to early sankara story) when I was coming from the opposite direction of the present Kanchi Sankaracharya on the banks of Haridwar (when I was a believer). I had been asked to stand away from his way. This is the real painful truth. The fictitious “advaitha” is just an imaginative human assumption to create comfortable continuity of life after the death and/or live in detached life by neglecting the real life issues. The experience of one ness through meditation (thoughtless state) can be compared with experience with drugs (I had seen many sanyasis using Hashish to feel the oneness).

Such God concept (oneness) has no real practical values. Such god does not hear prayers!!! Such God neither need any followers nor guide any one with Vedas. Such God neither has any wish or hatred. Such God neither provide heaven nor push any one to hell. Leave aside atheists, even, conventional believer won’t accept such oneness as God. Can any one explain why we need such God? Why we need prayers? Why we need so-called holy books? How such understandings of oneness help in the real life?

Then as usual, we are deviating much from the original subject. Why can’t we discuss this in “Does God Exist” thread?

[Badri]

Dear Badri

Vibeeshan asks Hanuman in Ramayan, what is his connection to Rama. He said at body level he is a slave to Lord rama and at mind level he is part of him (Jiva) and at the Atma level both are atma, no-duality.

So advaita identifies us to paramatma at atma level. VA talks at mind level and so is a part. Dwaitam talks at level of the body, then both are different.

Hope you got the understanding of the three.

Does he say that in answer to Vibheeshana? Or does he tell it to Rama?

Deham udyaarthey daasoham
Jivam udyaarthey twamaamshakam
Atmama udyaarthey twaimaivaham

Yes, but even there, VA says I am a part of you, not the whole. How can the part become the whole? That is the contention of VA. In that sense it is aligned with Saiva Siddhanta as well...I am but a slave of the Lord! How can I, who is next to nothing when compared to Him ever become Him?

Refer to Adi Sankara's Vishnu Shadpathi Stotram, where he says, I am a part of you...after all, the waves are a part of the ocean, can the ocean ever belong to the wave?

And this coming from Adi Sankara, the foremost proponent of Adwaita!

[Uthappam]

Ha! Maybe I should try Pradheep.

Marathai maraithathu maamatha yaanai
marathin marainthathu maamatha yaanai
parathai maraithathu parmuthal pootham
parathil marainthathu parmuthal pootham

The mad elephant hid the wood!
The mad elephant hid in the wood!
The earthly demon hid the god!
The earthly demon hid in the god

How is it??