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Thread: The Loudness War

  1. #1
    Senior Member Seasoned Hubber thineshan54321's Avatar
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    The Loudness War

    Hey guys, this is about a problem that has been haunting audiophiles in the modern age. I dont wanna explain what this is and stuff as wikipedia can do a better job: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

    I am sure you all have atleast one pyramid CD of Rahmans. Put this in and listen to the songs, now find the same songs from another distributor (alai oosai, ayngaran), you will notice that the volume is noticeable higher. This is because of the loudness war. Distributors nowadays are increasing their volume levels to "sound" better, when what is at stake is audio dynamics. Some of you might be wondering why this might be a problem (just reduce the volume and its all fine). However, what happens is, there is a maximum volume level that a CD can accept (this is called a loudness ceiling). basically u cannot increase the volume higher than this level, so what distributors do is increase the parts that are not at their maximum. The end result? We get tracks that have a constant volume (static) wtihout any dynamics. What ARR might have initially planned to sound soft and subtle now sounds loud. This causes distortion and no matter how much you reduce the volume on your speakers to match lets say the volume levels of a pyramid CD, that distrotion is still there because the original has been altered.

    This was not that noticeable till we heard mayilirage (what a track that was!), but because ARR designed that track with very very high dynamics especially with the bass tabla, when audio distributors increased the volume, those sounds that were already at their maximum now sound distorted and so the complaints by many people about its quality. Let me tell you all something, ARR made no mistake with its quality, its all distributors fault. I also noticed the same problem with guru (tamil) version. The hindi version (Sony BMG) was CRYSTAL clear, but the same song at the same places had distortions in tamil (Ayngaran).

    For the time being, lets contribute to this discussion about which distributor has the better quality. IMO, pyramid tops them all! Let me know what you all think. Remmeber dont just look at volume levels, but observe the dynamics. low volume doesnt necessarily mean better. You can put ur tracks into programs like goldwave and observe the waveform. I have done this with some tracks and pyramid scores! but unfortunately i only have pyramid sony bmg, and ayngaran.

    1. pyramid
    2. Sony BMG
    3. ayngaran

    many of you might think ayngaran is better but trust me they have spoiled both aaruyirae from guru and mayilirage from ah ahh. the hindi version of aaruyirae (tera bina) by sony bmg did not have distortions of any kind.
    Music is Peace

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber Dragun's Avatar
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    I noticed this problem when listening to Jaane Tu Ya Jaane Na (T-Series) and Ada (Big Music), which were mastered by S. Sivakumar. I wonder if the dynamic compression is being done by the record labels or the ARR's mastering engineers. My Sivaji CD from Ayngaran sounds fine and the waveforms look fairly dynamic, though I suspect some compression was used. Maybe on ARR's end.

    Jodha Akbar is a fairly dynamic soundtrack as well. I think ARR generally uses more dynamic compression on pop/techno kind of songs and less on classical or softer songs like JA or Guru.

    Other mastering problems I've encountered:

    Kangalal Kaidhu Sei (Ayngaran) - Looks to be peak-limited. The waveforms stay in the middle, without ever peaking. I've never seen an ARR CD like this, so I assume Ayngaran did something.

    Bombay (Saregama) - I've never heard the Pyramid version, but the Saregama version is utterly lacking in bass.

    Thiruda Thiruda/Pudhiya Mugam (Bayshore) - I sadly lost my Magnasound/OMI CD of these soundtracks, which sounded amazing. The Bayshore CD sounds anemic and totally lacks punch.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Seasoned Hubber thineshan54321's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragun
    I noticed this problem when listening to Jaane Tu Ya Jaane Na (T-Series) and Ada (Big Music), which were mastered by S. Sivakumar. I wonder if the dynamic compression is being done by the record labels or the ARR's mastering engineers. My Sivaji CD from Ayngaran sounds fine and the waveforms look fairly dynamic, though I suspect some compression was used. Maybe on ARR's end.

    Jodha Akbar is a fairly dynamic soundtrack as well. I think ARR generally uses more dynamic compression on pop/techno kind of songs and less on classical or softer songs like JA or Guru.

    Other mastering problems I've encountered:

    Kangalal Kaidhu Sei (Ayngaran) - Looks to be peak-limited. The waveforms stay in the middle, without ever peaking. I've never seen an ARR CD like this, so I assume Ayngaran did something.

    Bombay (Saregama) - I've never heard the Pyramid version, but the Saregama version is utterly lacking in bass.

    Thiruda Thiruda/Pudhiya Mugam (Bayshore) - I sadly lost my Magnasound/OMI CD of these soundtracks, which sounded amazing. The Bayshore CD sounds anemic and totally lacks punch.
    i completely agree with you about jaane tu especially. kahin to is VERY compressed dynamically and i even heard distortions when singer reaches the high louder notes.

    i dont think ARR ever compresses his songs. It has to be done by the audio distributors to make it sound louder and therefore distorting. i mean why would ARR ever compress his songs (maybe there is something i dont know about the advantages of compressing?)

    but dragun, really good observations!

    also i recently compared ayutha ezhuthu from saregama and ramiy records (swiss label) and saregama is AMAZING!! ramiy is overly compressed!

    imo, i think all distributors from india are doing a good job atleast not to alter the originals they get from Rahman. international distributors do this to fit in with other soundtracks. even ayngaran's ah ahh is nasty!

    please check the waveforms of pyramid, u will notice they are very very small (amplitude). BUT, the dynamics is wonderful. althot there are small amplitudes, there are also tiny peaks that hit the top meaning, the dynamic range has been used to maximum potential.
    Music is Peace

  5. #4
    Senior Member Seasoned Hubber thineshan54321's Avatar
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    hey dragun, imo, saregama is pretty close to pyramid generally. i noticed with aayutha ezhuthu saregama and the quality is terrific! compared to the international distributor (ramiy records), the quality is literally 10x better. dynamics are wonderful!
    Music is Peace

  6. #5
    Senior Member Seasoned Hubber thineshan54321's Avatar
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    i havent heard any other version of mayilirage but i gotta tell you, the one released by ayngaran is literally RAPED!!! who else released it? i would love to check their quality, plz rip a wav for me or even send me the waveform...
    Music is Peace

  7. #6
    Senior Member Devoted Hubber Dragun's Avatar
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    I know this discussion is a few years old, but FYI, shrimatis.com has some ARR Pyramid CDs. This week I received:

    Love Birds
    Mr. Romeo
    Pavithra
    Puthiya Mannargal
    Jeans
    Sangamam

    A few years ago I also got from a local store (now closed):

    Padaiyappa
    Iruvar
    En Swasa Katrae

    I am still looking for:

    Gentleman
    Duet (Thankfully I still have the old Pyramid cassette)
    Kizhakku Cheemayile
    Bombay
    Karuthamma
    Indian
    Indira
    Thiruda Thiruda/Pudhiya Mugam (Magnasound/OMI)

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