Ex-Number One England

[P_R]

Wizzy, remember the Ashes they won in England (the one where Plum claims Aus 'dominated' England)
The same team with Hilfenhaus, Johnson, Siddle that swings from being dominant to being seththa paambus to being dominant again.

The momentum was set-up by a huge 200ish opening stand by Cook-Strauss, which gave them the first win.
And remember the last match, where they punched their way to a win. Trott made a century on debut. Batting with Strauss and then the tail, against an Aus attack that was making a last attempt in the decider.

The match they won in South Africa - again life-breathing into a series where they were vulnerable - was an opening stand. Even in the last matches where they clung to a draw, Cook-Strauss showed up to put on a 100ish stand. This consistent 50/3 situations were not the order of the day last year, was it?

Sure, in the course of their ride they won with their bowling - adhaiyAchchum unga team-captain Plum oththukkuraarA theriyAdhu. But it wasn't like the batting was abysmal and was covered by bowling.

Of course those huge knocks in the Ashes in Australia were the high-points, against the team which happened to drop their game by a few notches because they were playing England.
But that's not the only thing I am counting.

I don't know if I am allowed to count Sri Lanka, which was prior to our tour. Perhaps not. I have already been told to discount the epic Trott-Broad partnership against Pakistan.

How about Cook's grinding knocks against spin in Abidhabi and SL? The Dubai drubbing is still the most riveting set of tests I have watched this year.

[P_R]

Anyway will state my going-forward manappAl:

1) I want India to lose to New Zealand - revenge for Laxman. But then I want them to be perceived a strong team when England comes - fatten for the kill. Not sure what I want here. I guess I want NZ to play well and India to play better. illainnA India-vai convenientA 'seththa paambu' 'ndruvAnga.

2) I want South Africa to defeat Australia - so it will be clear England was beaten by a good team and will put a fullstop to this Indianfan mumble that 'there are no clear top teams for the next few years, there will be shuffling' which is a backdoor way of deeply discounting India's loss in England and even England's brief reign on-top.

3) England in India - Obviously I want England to win.
I know it's kinda asking for the moon. But the heart wants what it wants.
It hinges a lot on pazhaya panneerselvam Swann + openers. Final test of character 'mbAingaLE.

3b) Do I want KP in the team - although I think Flower doesn't know what he is talking about when he says Eng can win without KP, it will be good to take KP back AFTER England have figured out a way to win without him. Else it will be a desperate crawl-back and KP will have a good reason to be smug. indha match/series/top-spot thOththadhukku arththamE illAma pOyidum.

idhellAm nadakkumnu sollalai.
nadandhA sandhOsappaduvEnnu solREn.
thassal.

[wizzy]

The same team with Hilfenhaus, Johnson, Siddle that swings from being dominant to being seththa paambus to being dominant again.

about 6 months before this Ashes series India 'dominated' the same OZ side 2-0 with the rest being high scoring draws and Eng barely scrapped through the first test and you call this 'dominating' a series

The match they won in South Africa - again life-breathing into a series where they were vulnerable - was an opening stand. Even in the last matches where they clung to a draw, Cook-Strauss showed up to put on a 100ish stand. This consistent 50/3 situations were not the order of the day last year, was it?

what about the matches they drew..again will you India's counter..India drew a series in SA which they ought to have won 2-1 OTOH if not for Onions scrapping through Eng would have lost 3-1 against SA..so what gives

How about Cook's grinding knocks against spin in Abidhabi and SL? The Dubai drubbing is still the most riveting set of tests I have watched this year.

all token knocks which has no bearing on the series result...even in the match Cook 'grinded' SL... Eng were snailing until KP took the match away with his blistering knock.

[P_R]

you call this 'dominating' a series

That was what Plum was saying. I was jibing him. I should have put 'dominant' in quotes. In my opinion that was an evenly contested series.

what about the matches they drew..again will you India's counter..India drew a series in SA which they ought to have won 2-1 OTOH if not for Onions scrapping through Eng would have lost 3-1 against SA..so what gives

Yep. Where do you see me denying that. SA were the better team in that series and managing to draw that was quite a fight 'ngREn.

all token knocks which has no bearing on the series result...

So?

even in the match Cook 'grinded' SL... Eng were snailing until KP took the match away with his blistering knock.

Oh, if your point is KP is better, more exciting, more talented batsman than Cook - where am I disagreeing with any of that.

Just disagreeing with your summary dismissal of Cook & co. as a talentless bunch of minnow-bashing bullies saved by Anderson-Broad & co. (who are themselves no-talents, when we begin to discuss them).

[ajithfederer]

P_r : Which ashes series you are claiming it as evenly contested? 2009/10 in England or 2010/11 in Australia. If it is the latter it was never one to start with. I even had a bet with LM/some of my outside friends that Eng will trounce Aus.

[P_R]

P_r : Which ashes series you are claiming it as evenly contested? 2009/10 in England or 2010/11 in Australia. If it is the latter it was never one to start with. I even had a bet with LM/some of my outside friends that Eng will trounce Aus.

2009/10. Plum claimed it was dominated by Aus and that England just about managed to win.

England went in as favorites in Australia. They did surprise me by the extent of their dominance. But I was more surprised by the general surprise among people about the overall result itself People were overcompensating for the media by underrating England. Some were surprised by India result too, which were quite to me. It's like they were oblivious to England's rise and attributing it entirely to 'media hype'.

To some extent that overcompensation is happening ex-post too.

aayiram kaigaL maRaikkinRana

[ajithfederer]

20 August 2012
Team Matches Points Rating
South Africa 25 3002 120
England 36 4195 117
Australia 34 3952 116
Pakistan 29 3148 109
India 29 3004 104
Sri Lanka 29 2834 98
West Indies 28 2509 90
New Zealand 21 1670 80
Bangladesh 12 0 0
Zimbabwe is currently unranked, as it has played insufficient matches. It has 167 points and a rating of 42.

There is a golden chance for India to become Number 1 if the scenario works out in its favor. If Aus defeats SA and India defeats both Aus and Eng in home they can be back to No 1 again. This cycle of events should be interesting

[wizzy]

That was what Plum was saying. I was jibing him. I should have put 'dominant' in quotes. In my opinion that was an evenly contested series.

concur

Yep. Where do you see me denying that. SA were the better team in that series and managing to draw that was quite a fight 'ngREn.

So you agree that India were no.1 in same vein as Eng were numerically/aesthetically/spiritually after putting more than a 'fight' in SA

So?

dead snake knocks..unselected

Just disagreeing with your summary dismissal of Cook & co. as a talentless bunch of minnow-bashing bullies saved by Anderson-Broad & co. (who are themselves no-talents, when we begin to discuss them).

I had said Cook/Strauss/Bell/their no.6 were not in same class to KP/Trott and their sloppiness have been covered by Prior/lower order bats and opp. bats scumming to Eng pressure w.r.t bowling tight lines...with Trott being gunned by Steyn and KP by Andy/ECB the series loss has only made the batting malodorous.

Other than the first innings of the first test Eng bowlers almost matched Saffers blow-by-blow..they lost the series with their batting not coming to grips with the harsh reality I had listed above/Andy going cuckoo.

[P_R]

So you agree that India were no.1 in same vein as Eng were numerically/aesthetically/spiritually after putting more than a 'fight' in SA

In SA. Yes. India fared much better than England did.
But if you are comparing overall 'away performances', England went to Aus and won emphatically. niRaiya dibarent irukkungaLE.

dead snake knocks..unselected

yOv! usura kaiyila pudichchu viLayAdiyum Pakistan thOkkadichuttAinga. adhu deadsnake-A??

So knocks that did not aid victories will not be in your count-A? (Feddy, indha aaLai note paNNunga, enakku sandhEgamA irukku)

Other than the first innings of the first test Eng bowlers almost matched Saffers blow-by-blow..

That first innings of the first test was telling. It sapped them a lot IMO and the bowlers never recovered. Except for Broad in the second test, SA never seemed to be under attack. Just compare the quality of bowling last summer and this.

In the last test, Finn deserved to get wickets but many of the wickets he got were not deserved.

I see your point about the batting not holding up. Sure that is a reason. But I am not willing to let the bowling off the hook.
They were bowling well below par.

What Plum is trying to insinuate is that the bowling was always this bad, but one couldn't tell because they were always up against lesser teams. That is where I disagree. Which is why I have been giving examples of the Swann-Broad-Anderson performances against SA, Aus etc.

[wizzy]

In SA. Yes. India fared much better than England did.
But if you are comparing overall 'away performances', England went to Aus and won emphatically. niRaiya dibarent irukkungaLE.

India/SA were the only sides which gave that OZ side a semblance of fight @ their home whilst Eng folded up emphatically..enga cutoff date different..India weren't no.1 when they were whitewashed in OZ..even if you compare the away performances weren't Eng whitewashed in UAE and lost a series in Windies where Ind won..so this/that/even

Ov! usura kaiyila pudichchu viLayAdiyum Pakistan thOkkadichuttAinga. adhu deadsnake-A?? So knocks that did not aid victories will not be in your count-A?

oru knock ennbathu game'ai save panna vendum ellai least win panna 'aid' vendum..I hate namathal batsman who fill their boots in meaningless encounters were the results are foregone conclusion and go AWOL when the heat is really on...Cook is a definition of Pakka-vadyam batsman..has he ever played for 2 days to save a test match like ATG in NZ or do a Sehwag @ Galle in aiding the team to victory when rest of the bats mustered next to nothing

(Feddy, indha aaLai note paNNunga, enakku sandhEgamA irukku)

don't put word in my mouths

Except for Broad in the second test, SA never seemed to be under attack. Just compare the quality of bowling last summer and this.

Jimmy had induced so many edges which went through slips and Eng dropping 9 catches made the matters worse..take out Amla who was the difference between the 2 batting sides/a major beneficiary in those dropped catches..ABDV/Rudolph/Kallis struggled as much as their Eng counterparts.

In the last test, Finn deserved to get wickets but many of the wickets he got were not deserved.

Finn was Eng's best bowler..he troubled all the Saffer bats and he deserved lot many wickets.

I see your point about the batting not holding up. Sure that is a reason. But I am not willing to let the bowling off the hook.
They were bowling well below par.

Swann should cope some of the blame..with him being ineffective seamers had to brought back quickly thus killing their efficacy with the second new ball
which meant Saffer tail wagging...again he was a force in SA..must be his elbow injury.

Bell-ku illAdha cojones-A?
He was the first one to make such a statement after the Dubai disaster.

edhu oru perumaiya..taking the blame when the entire batting order more or less sucked in unison match after match