SANGAM LITERATURE & TAMIL

[srivatsan]

My purpose of this thread is more to discuss about contents of Sangam and the Unity of Indian Civilisation, which is purposfully been divided as Aryan-Dravidian myths by Missionary Indologists and these have been exploited by Thani Tamil and Dravidian movements

Do not worry! Once BrahmaNa girls freely get married to non-Bramana and vice versa, there will be unity of Indian civilization. There won't be any Aryan - Dravidian divide or myth as you say. Missionary indologists will fall silent. Thani Tamiz and Dravidian movements will pack up.

Devapriya, why don't you inaugurate this unique movement rather than writing all these stuff here?

You mix Sankrit and Tamil but do not want to get married to non-BramaNa, what is the use? No Indian unity can emerge.

Ms. Sivamala,

I fail to undertand how Brahmana or Non-Brahmana come in to this isuue...Can't you argue with out a pre-judice or hatred? You consistently show hatred towards a section, or a group, which you feel different from you. Come up with more magnanimous discussions...

[bis_mala]

My purpose of this thread is more to discuss ............................ists and these have been exploited by Thani Tamil and Dravidian movements

Do not worry! .................................................. ...... No Indian unity can emerge.

Ms. Sivamala,

I fail to undertand how Brahmana or Non-Brahmana come in to this isuue...Can't you argue with out a pre-judice or hatred? You consistently show hatred towards a section, or a group, which you feel different from you. Come up with more magnanimous discussions...

Please do not misinterpret my call for integration as one of anti-anyone!! I am saying integrate and do not remain as a separate section and then pretend to work for Indian Unity.
Unity is in integration. Not holding your section separately.

[devapriya]

Dear Friends,

Tholkappiyar refers to Vedas.

How WAS Vedas seen during Sangam.

Paripadal says- A tAMIL FOR Madurai(Pandya Capital)- you people in Uraiyur (chola capital ) and Vanchi(chera Capital) wake up against the Crawl of Hen, WE Madural Tamil wakeup at Vedic Chantings, and in another song even Vishnu is called as Samavedha.

âÅ¢Ûû À¢È󧾡ý ¿¡Å¢Ûû À¢Èó¾
¿¡ýÁ¨Èì §¸ûÅ¢ ¿Å¢ø ÌÃø ±ÎôÀ
²Á ý Тø ±Æ¢¾ø «øĨ¾,
šƢ ÅﺢÔõ §¸¡Æ¢Ôõ §À¡Äì
§¸¡Æ¢Â¢ý ±Æ¡Ð, ±õ §À÷ °÷ Т§Ä. , this is a Song from Paripadal and Paripadal song -3 says Lord Vishnu as
º¡Á §Å¾õ ÜھĢý ¦¾Ç¢ó¾ ¦À¡Õû

So look and read SAngam and then post please, most of Sangam collections are available in www.tami..net/projectmadurai

Devapriya

[bis_mala]

Dear Friends,

Tholkappiyar refers to Vedas.

How WAS Vedas seen during Sangam.

Paripadal says- A tAMIL FOR Madurai(Pandya Capital)- you people in Uraiyur (chola capital ) and Vanchi(chera Capital) wake up against the Crawl of Hen, WE Madural Tamil wakeup at Vedic Chantings, and in another song even Vishnu is called as Samavedha.

âÅ¢Ûû À¢È󧾡ý ¿¡Å¢Ûû À¢Èó¾
¿¡ýÁ¨Èì §¸ûÅ¢ ¿Å¢ø ÌÃø ±ÎôÀ
²Á ý Тø ±Æ¢¾ø «øĨ¾,
šƢ ÅﺢÔõ §¸¡Æ¢Ôõ §À¡Äì
§¸¡Æ¢Â¢ý ±Æ¡Ð, ±õ §À÷ °÷ Т§Ä. , this is a Song from Paripadal and Paripadal song -3 says Lord Vishnu as
º¡Á §Å¾õ ÜھĢý ¦¾Ç¢ó¾ ¦À¡Õû

So look and read SAngam and then post please, most of Sangam collections are available in www.tami..net/projectmadurai

Devapriya

Tolkaappiyar refers to Tamil vEdas. vEtham is a Tamil word from vEythal. the verb. Sanskrit borrowed it because they needed a word to refer to the religious anthology those people were compiling. Thus they called arya vEtham also as vEda. Well, you already know that the famous Nachinaarkiniyar said that Tamils had their own vEthangkaL.

vishNu is forged from the Tamil word viNNu, means sky God.

Tamil vEtham had much in it, unlike arya vedas which are a collection of chantings for religious purposes.

[devapriya]

Dear Friends,

Can bismala get those Myth- Tamil Vedas?
Has it eaten?
where is it?

Why Every Authority agrees that what is referred is Sanskrit Vedas


Where as Thani- Tamil Scholars went on to go by the Jainistic Probaganda- that Silapathikaram and Kural are Jainistic, with very flimsy few picked verses. Even few went on to say that Marai or Vetham or Ooththu in Tholkappiyam, Sangam-Kural – Manimekhalai could be some Non Existent Tamil Vedams etc., and The Missionary Motived Pavanar had to himself has to admit-
// " Nalvetham or Nanmarai, Arangam Agamam enbana ellam Arya Noolkale enbathum, Thirukural thavira ippothulla Pandai Noolkalellam Anthanar enbathum Brahmararie Kurikkum Enpathu Sariye. Page- 102 Tamilar Matham.//

Devapriya.

[bis_mala]

Dear Friends,

Can bismala get those Myth- Tamil Vedas?
Has it eaten?
where is it?

Why Every Authority agrees that what is referred is Sanskrit Vedas


Where as Thani- Tamil Scholars went on to go by the Jainistic Probaganda- that Silapathikaram and Kural are Jainistic, with very flimsy few picked verses. Even few went on to say that Marai or Vetham or Ooththu in Tholkappiyam, Sangam-Kural – Manimekhalai could be some Non Existent Tamil Vedams etc., and The Missionary Motived Pavanar had to himself has to admit-
// " Nalvetham or Nanmarai, Arangam Agamam enbana ellam Arya Noolkale enbathum, Thirukural thavira ippothulla Pandai Noolkalellam Anthanar enbathum Brahmararie Kurikkum Enpathu Sariye. Page- 102 Tamilar Matham.//

Devapriya.

You are saying that PaavaaNar was motivated by missionary men and yet you are citing his conclusion to support you. He was missionary-motivated so was he also so motivated into saying that anthaNar meant BrahmaNa etc., ? Or are you saying that he spoke what is acceptable to you even though he was so motivated and did not lose his balance? You need to clarify the contradictory stances you are taking Devapriya!

[devapriya]

Friends,

we need to look at them in great depth, because the Last Generation of Scholars have made very bad use of Research and Virtually this generation hardly knows Sangam Literature.

[bis_mala]

Even few went on to say that Marai or Vetham or Ooththu in Tholkappiyam, Sangam-Kural – Manimekhalai could be some Non Existent Tamil Vedams etc., and The Missionary Motived Pavanar had to himself has to admit-

Hindus believe in many things including deities. They also believe in maharishis. What evidence is there to say that Maharishis existed? A mere mention of their name in some religious book. Similarly, the names of four Tamil vedas are mentioned in Tamil literature. So we can believe the statement, just like you believe in the existence of those rishis because of some statement in some religious book.

There are several reasons why we are able to believe that maRai in Tolkappiyam does not refer to the Arya Vedas. Before I enumerate them once again for you,please let me know your answer to the paragraph in this posting in red.

[bis_mala]

Why Every Authority agrees that what is referred is Sanskrit Vedas

Correction: Why Every Authority I read agrees that what is referred is Sanskrit Vedas. Every - exaggeration!

It is usual for one authority to just blindly follow an earlier authority. If you bring them to Police for interrogation, you will be surprised at the revelations from the police statements.(Of course, these matters are not criminal and such investigations are not possible). Besides, authors normally do not decide every point they touch upon. This should be evident to you from their bibliography appended at the end of their books. For many of them, questions such as whether naanmarai refers to this or that was not an issue or question they specifically selected for their own research and decision!! If it were a PhD thesis, the candidate is not going to get his degree based on what he says about this issue, because his topic is different. All of us tend to treat matters in this manner.
Many scholars followed Maraimalai Adigal, a pioneer in this kind of literary research. Others follow his Tamiz student, the advocate turned professor Vaiyapuri. The master and student differed in their views on dates and chronology. I will stop here for the moment.

Do not believe in international scholars too much. They made a mess of the WMD question in Iraq and all of them are sky level scholars, aren't they?

[devapriya]

Dear Friends,

We need to understand how datings have been done.

The best and good Guide is Asoka's Stone Inscriptions all over India, in colloauial Sanskrit or Prakrit. They are dated in 3rd Cen. During this period Pandyas, Chera, Chola and Sathiya Putros i.e., Athiamans were big rulers of Tamilnadu. Later Athiaman's lost much contral in over 150 years and after 50 or more years Tamil country was referred as 3 Rulers Muventar country, this is almost only in around Ist Century Common Era(CE). Details in Sangam Lieterature confirm that Pandyas are outsiders who came after their Land was swallowed by water.

During early peeriod Korkai was not ruled by Pandyas and only later they won it and named as Mathurai, I st Cen BCE..

Similarly the dating of Srilanks's Gajawahu helps, which is in 2nd Century CE. So 200BCE- 200 CE, is now widely Historically acceptable dates for Sangam Literature.

We have many Inscriptions of Samana muni's though we do not have any Samana Lit of this period. We also have few Buddist Vihars dated to this period, though we do not have much about them in Lit.

Sangam Lit. is predominantly Hinduism Oriented and Vedic in nature.