-
"´¼õÀ¨Ã"
§¸¡ÂõÒòà÷ Åð¼¡Ãò¾¢ø.... ´Õ Å¢ò¾¢Â¡ºÁ¡É §ÀîÍ ÅÆìÌî-¦º¡ø... ´¼õÀ¨Ã.
"«Å÷ ¯í¸ÙìÌ ´¼õÀ¨Ã§Â¡?" .. ±ýÚ «ùç÷측Ã÷ ´ÕÅ÷ ¯í¸¨Çì §¸ð¼¡ø «¾ý ¦À¡Õû... "«Å÷ ¯í¸ÙìÌî º§¸¡¾Ãá?".... ±ýÀ§¾.
þ¡ø ±ýÉ ¦Á¡Æ¢... ±ýÈ¡ø... àÂ-¦ºó¾Á¢§Æ ¾¡ý...
"¯¼ý-À¢ÈÅ¢".... ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø §ÀîÍ-ÅÆ츢ø "´¼õÀ¨Ã-¡¸" ò¢Ã¢óÐÅ¢ð¼Ð.
-
¦Åú¡ ... ¨À .... §À¡õÀ¡Å¡
ÁШÃ, áÁ¿¡¾ÒÃõ, ¾¢Õ¦¿ø§ÅÄ¢, ¸ýɢ¡ÌÁâ Åð¼¡Ãí¸Ç¢ø... «¾¡ÅÐ ¦¾ý ¾Á¢ú-Á¡Åð¼í¸Ç¢ø...
§ÁüÌÈ¢ò¾ ÀÆÌ-¾Á¢¨Æ... §ÀîÍò-¾Á¢úî ¦º¡ü¸¨Çì §¸ð¸Ä¡õ... ²¨É ¾Á¢Æ÷¸ÙìÌô Ò⡾ Å¢ó¨¾î-¦º¡ü¸û þ¨Å... þÅüÈ¢ý ¦À¡Õû ±ýÉ?
(1) ¦Åú¡ = Å¢¨ÃÅ¡¸ / Fast ... ("¦Åú¡"ô... §À¡ ... = Å¢¨ÃÅ¡¸ / §Å¸Á¡¸ §À¡)
(2) ¨À = ¦ÁÐÅ¡¸ / Slow... (¨ÀÂô-§À¡ = ¦ÁÐÅ¡¸ / §Å¸õ ̨ÈÅ¡¸ §À¡)
(3) §À¡õÀ¡ = §À¡§Å¡õ ... ( §À¡õÀ¡ Å¡ = §À¡§Å¡õ Å¡)
-
-
I complement to the sudhaamas passage.
The word 'Ragasiyam' has root in tamil. Not in sanskrit.
ragasiyam-erakasiyam-eraku+asiyam- Eraku- eru+ku - eru means eyalpu(natural), Karuppu(black). Erul(night),Erumbu(iron in black colour) - turned to specify a thing in 'erul' - means 'marai'-hide.
Hence 'erakasiyam' - means hidden communication.
If any time ragasiyam revealed out it will mean in different way to those who reads than it exactly means. That is why a wise person is required to explain the exact meaning. This is called 'ragasiya vilakkam'.
The Agaththiyar's 'NADI SOTHIDAM' in palm leaves has this 'ragasiyam' which cannot be understood by normal person. It has to be devised by someperson who knows the hidden meanings.
The equivalent word for 'ragasiyam' is 'kamukkam'. It is used in tanjore district as 'kamukkama pesu'.
Villa,Village and Villain in english is from Latin specifies all countri-men activities. Conuntriside/ countribrute are equivalent words to specify villain.
The same word is available in tamil in different way. When men started their forest life they used these words.
Vedan- his armour 'vel' and 'vill' has same root. velan-vedan has same meaning. This 'vill' root was transplanted in Latin.
The 'sontham'-relation has root 'chol'- Note the phrase 'chollikolkira mathiri sontham ethuvumillai'. 'Choththu' is another word from the same root.
This sontham turned into sanskrit as 'svantham' has same meaning-belonging. It may be of any element / property / persons.
'Pisirai' for madness is from 'pisaku'- pisaku is from 'puram-pusam-(pujam in sanskrit)- pusaku-pisaku. Compare the word 'pichan kai' for left hand.
'Nachiyar' - has root in 'nachchu' means 'paravuthal'-spread. Nadu,Naadu has same meaning. 'Nanchu'-vidam/visham,poison which is easily spread has same root.
All queen has nachiyar surname. Mathavi nacchiyar, velu nachiyar etc.
'Achchi' in settinadu is to specify ladies who overule house activities as spouse.
A temple nachiyarkovil is near kumbakonam town specifies a goddenss.
'Nachinarkiniyan'- a person who wrote explanatory note for 'Thirukkual' has meaning' nadi varuvabavarukku iniyavan'.
f.s.gandhi
-
dear fsg,
all are acceptable except "naachchiyaar":
aai,aayar
aaichchi,aaichchiyaar,
aaichchiyar
naagar=naayar;["ka" in middle of a word is a tautomer (interchangeable-look at the beauty of Tamizh language!!), ka=ya;similarly, "sa" is interchangeable with "ya"
sa=ya]]-"kagara-sagaram mayangiya yagaram"
continuing the same , the pen'paal of
naagar[naayar]=naaichchiyar [in plural form]
=naaichchiyaar ="naachchiyaar" [in singular form ]
eg.
naagar [mentioned in puranaanooru]
naagar[nagaland,nagpur,nagapattinam,nagarkoil]
naayar[a section of people in kerala present]
aai[master of a cattle herd,herdsman, eg., "aayarpaadi kannan" description ]
[in puranaanooru, king aai an'diran and aai eyinan - lord of huge cattle fleet] =leader of a group of people ,leader of a family[grandfather,father]="makkalai katti maeippavan," the king,
aaichchi-[herdswoman,eg.,"aachchi thandha moar"-the yoghurt of herdslady;also mean as female leader of a group of people,a family=queen,grandmother,="aaychchi"="aayaal' " ="aayaa"=grandmother;also, "aayi"=mother]]
NAAGAR-one of the five primary groups of ancient Tamizh people(like the 5 major land types of ancient Tamizh country [if you want to call them castes;not like castes-but only called by the following names because of their individual profession] as mentioned in puranaanooru:
(1)vael'ir:people who did agriculture,raise cattle;include hunters too[vaeduvar]
(2)mazhavar:people who did skilled professions other than food-generators;eg.,artisans,musicians,poets,merchants, ministers and administrators;
(3)naagar:derived from the root word " nagam"-the nail of a finger which protects the extremities of hands and feet;
nagam literally meant to defend the boundaries of the ur,the village/town/city;{like the presentday "border security force " on the boundaries of each country.}
that's why we find naagar settlements in ancient history around Madurai,Nagarkovil around Oliyamangalam[the capitals of Pandyan kingdom in late Koodal period] and Nagapattin'am around old Poompugaar[which stretched almost from Thillai to Nagapattinam in the Koodal period]
naachchiyaar=considered as ladies of royal families, who protect and defend their country,e., veera nachiyaar,kundhavai nachiyaar,mangammaa naachchiyaar;
(4)mar'avar:the soldiers,the kings and generals;"during wartimes atleast one from each family goes to the battlefield as a soldier"-puranaanoru;
(5)otrtrar-the spies-recall "5-aam padai!";,such intense was the aristocratic race for supremacy between the Tamizh kingdoms and empires, that many citizens were official spies serving in their home capital or in their enemy's land ; at any time 1 in 10 men and women among the general population of the capital cities like Poompugaar and Vanji and Madurai, were spies , either native spies or foreign enemies' spies !]
Thus in any family there were all types of people originally, a mazhavan,a naagan, a vael'ir and a mar'avan-all in one famiy based on the job each did! Each member of the family had the independence of doing what they liked and what they did best!
This was the secret of successful continuation of the Tamizh civilization , Tamizh Empires and Kingdoms and brilliant and then (and still) the most advanced social system for more than 10,000 years of continuity!;But later on each professionals seggregated from each other, as a mar'avan's son became another mar'van and a vael'ir's son continued his father's work of farming and so on.
VAELIR:vael'aan'mai=agriculture, vael=farmers
and vaeduvar=vaedar=hunters;
vael'=one who generates food=the root word "vil'ai";cf. "vil'aiththal,vil'aichchal"
one who did the lighter and easier way of generating food
=farming=vael'ir;paguthi{the root wod} end with mellina "l'agaram";
one who did the harder way(vanmur'ai=to kill=hunt down;) of generating food
=hunting , killing the forest animals=vaedar;paguthi end with vallina "ta garam".
mellinam=lighter way=agriculturing , farming ;
vallinam=harder way=hunting , gathering ;
-
Dear Thiru Senthikumaras,
Tamil was evolved first by 'suttu oligal'- A,E,U then with one alphabet words.
All tamil vowels have some meaning.
Aa-cow, I-exclamation, E- engae etc.
One alphabet words were formed with consonants.
Pa-paravu, Na-way, Cho-Alagu etc. Then the extension was formulated.
Parappu, nadu,naadu,nachu : Chol,chokku etc.
You can make all tamil words into these three formations.
A,Aa turned Aae means mother. It turned into Aae-Aaya, Av- Avva-Amma. The word avvai specifies foremother. Eve in Hebrew specifies the same.
Note Avva is for Amma in Telugu. 'Aae' in king names was to specify Ammaan like in the word 'Thodaiamman'-Thondaman.
Aa- cattle-Aae-Aayer-Maeyippavar- turned head of cattles.
Na+vai- navai means ship. This word formulated the words via(in Greek and French), Way (English) Voij-voyage-sea travel (in english).
Na+Aae+an- 'Naegan'- Head of ship. Note Kovalan is specified as 'Ma Naegan' in tamil epic 'Silappathikaram'.
Naegan turned Nagan,Nayan, Nayakan & Nayakkan to specify hero / head and 'Knayan' & 'Knayam' to specify Justice/head & justice respectively. ' Ar' Viguthi was added up to denote respect. This 'Knayam' turned 'Niyayam' in sanskrit.
Nayar-Naichi is good . But we have to analyse the historic perspective of any word.
When the Queens / Goddesses had surname 'Nachiyar' Why the kings had 'thevar'?. We have to analyse this. While the Rajarajan had thevar why the 'Kunthavai prattiyar' had Nachiyar?
The words Nanchai,Nanchappan has 'Nachchu' which means 'Nadi va',paravu,parappu has negative connotation words as Nanchu whereas Nanchai has +ve connotation.
The queens were helping the religious guys / 'koyil kodai' in those days and acted as 'nadi varubavarkku iniyavar'. The case of goddess was also beleived to be like this. 'Na' a human organ has same meaning 'parappu, vazhi'.
Note Vanchai-erakkam / Arul - show pitty has -ve connotation 'Vancham'-evil feeling.
In kerala no Nachi against Nayar. Or there was no surname of nayakkar in latest Ramnad king Sethupathy dynasty against nachi to believe nachi is from nayakkachi.
Kindly think it over and come to conclusion.
The word mazhavam means Vael / ploughing tool like weapon / Aaetham (weapon). Note the word malava+araiyar- malavarayar.
Velir never connect with Velan. Velanmai is from 'Vellam-Vellamai-Velachal-Vilachal and Vel is connected with courage and not with agriculture. Note 'Veeravel'.
The Kodumpalur velir (a small kingdom) near Thiruchirappalli had given their bride to Thanjore cholas and they are belonging to warrior community and not agricultural background.
Tamil Vallinam,Edayinam,Mellinam have sounds depending upon the surroundings they specify as revealed in your passage is the wonderful thing of tamil language. You can observe this in 'KAMBARAMAYANAM'.
f.s.gandhi
-
kindly tell your thoughts on "kaaLaandhagar",
we see this name denoting Sivanadiyaar in "Ponniyin selvan ";
dear Thiru fsg, I noticed a name "Kalamdhaga" in Sumerian kinglist and also as early Chozhan king in the delineated text of Tamil kigline 4,500 years ago.
does the word has any Sanskrit meaning, Mr.Sudhama to suggest if any?
Also , I had always wondered the root words for South Indian dishes:
"idly,dosai,bajji,chutney,kurma,parotta,boli[this has a purer Tamil name in Kovai provinces],bonda,idiyappam,samosa,pachchadi,kichchadi,uppuma ,rava kesari[perhaps from"aravai,thool?]"" etc.,
can anybody help?
-
Thiru Senthilkumaaras,
Any word in India particularly before Ninetienth century in which scientific revolution in Europe took place, wouldl have origin / root in tamil only.
I have already written tamil - sanskrit myth in separate thread. Since sanskrit was formulated from pragrid whose origin was with tamil we need not take sanskrit as a root language in which no roots available even for sanskrit words itself.
There are 32 dialects of tamil now spoken all over the world apart from present day tamil dialects in tamil nadu and Srilanka.
If you analyse australian aborigines language you can observe all words matches tamil. That is the case with all tribal languages of the world.
Hence when historians / linguistics seek root of any ancient language word they have to see ancient tamil roots. Then only acceptable result will come.
Tamil pandits also unconsciously have inferiority complex and whenever they are not able to find tamil roots they treat that as sanskrit word and whenever they come across words of common use both in tamil and sanskrit they come to the conclusion that that words originated in sanskrit.
for example, aathi, tamil pandits changed 'akarathi' into 'akaramudali' thinking that aathi is sanskrit word. 'Aathavan' a old tamil word to specify 'suryan' has 'aathi' as root. Again suryan is from ar-sur root. We should not tell suryan is sanskrit and kathiravan is tamil.
suram is one of the word from this root.
Let us have this in mind and start trying out roots.
'kalanthakan'- Kalam+antham+an--- kalam means 'porekalam'- battlefield. Antham has same meaning as Aathi. Hence the first man / who leads in battlefield was kalanthakan.
Rajaraja Cholan had one surname as 'keralanthakan' when he defeated Cheras. That surname still available with Kallar caste in Thanjavore.
Some of the roots of words that you mentioned.
Idli- idu, thosai- thodu, pajji - pasai, parotta - pa+arotti,
chatni- chadu kurma- karu+ mavu Boli - poli (powder) Note 'poli poduthal'
bonda- ponthai (fat) samosa- sam- club kesari - kesam- top
f.s.gandhi
-
My Dear TAMILIAN- FRIENDS,
Please DO NOT CHANGE THIS TAMIL-THREAD INTO AN ENGLISH ONE... anymore.
Please POST IN TAMIL FONT only... as it is existing from the initiation
Otrherwise we will have to FACE THE CURSE OF OUR BHARATHI
-
Dear Thiru Sudhaama, :!:
I understand and appreciate the notion behind your thought.
Here we have a chance of popularising our history not only to tamil masses but also to other world people.
Our literature / history never belongs to tamils only or written only for tamils. They have globalisation in nature.
Hence when we talk about tamils history we talk about global history.
I think in this perspective kindly take it in positive way.
f.s.gandhi