Topic started by Siva (@ 58-10-162-150.dial.mtl1.sprint-canada.net) on Tue Jul 22 00:58:58 .
hi ,
I would to know about complete Tamil History even before Sangam period. Could any one suggest which book that I can read. Nanri
Siva
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Topic started by Siva (@ 58-10-162-150.dial.mtl1.sprint-canada.net) on Tue Jul 22 00:58:58 .
hi ,
I would to know about complete Tamil History even before Sangam period. Could any one suggest which book that I can read. Nanri
Siva
Hi, there is an email list called CTamil, you should post your question there.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CTamil
Read the Tholkappiam at:
http://www.tamil.net/projectmadurai/...00/tolka1.html
http://www.tamil.net/projectmadurai/...00/tolka2.html
http://www.tamil.net/projectmadurai/...00/tolka3.html
or PDF version at:
http://www.tamil.net/projectmadurai/...100/tolkap.pdf
Read about the legendary agathiyar at:
http://www.kuviyam.com/b001r10/articles.htm#article7
Dear Friends, :)
Origin of organized tamil language might be around 10000 BCE. Here we will just look into origin of the name “Tamizh”
Thiru. Thevaneyap Pavanar :
We know Pavanar is authority in tamil roots words. And he was the first person to tell tamil is the language of first man in world and all languages evolved from tamil.
He says, Tham + El – “Thamathu Veettu Mozhi” (home language) is the cause to call tamizh as name.
Refer : Tamilar Varalaru- Page 37- By Thevaneya Pavanar.
When tamil was spoken, at its earlier stage, it should have not been called as tamizh rather the people would not have named it also. And they themselves could not call by that name as Pavanar claims.
Besides, in those days tamil was spoken all over India, West Asia and till Greek and so based upon the region / race it could not be called so.
Hence, later on, to specify the particular people who had some special character could be called by some people other than tamil speakers must have been the cause of calling the name so. So, Pavanar’s claim can not be taken in this case.
Dr.Calduwell :
Calduwell shows Thramida,Thravida, Thramila,Thamilo,Thamulukka,Thamiris,
Lumirikki, Thimirikka,Thimila,Thimira were the names of tamil prevailed from India to Medittaranien languages.
He also says Thravida-Dravida-Thramila- Tamila-Tamizh might be the tamil name evoluation. But he didn’t give clue or explanations why Tamil was called “Dravida”.
Refer : A comparative Grammar of the Dravidian or south Indian family of languages-page 10
This gives ambiguity in this view.
Dr.Gustav Oppert :
He says tamil was called Thenmozhi and the word “Thirumalai” turned Tamil. ‘Thiru’ turned ‘Thra’ and ‘malai’ turned ‘mala’ and both put together thramila-thamila- Tamizh eventually. He also says ‘Marai’s (Vedhas) were called “Thiruvai mozhikal”.
Refer- Dravidians by Oppert- page 25-26. Though Oppert view has some meaning, due to tamil’s ancientness it could not be defined fully as divine language but also people’s language and this is not the main cause.
Dr.K.P.Aravanan :
He is kumari kandam theory expert and gave some proofs also about kumarikandam. He says, “Amizh” is the root cause of word “tamizh” because tamil ancestors plunged into ‘Kadalkol’ and their language must have been called so. He refered the word “Amizhnthor” in sankam literature and Th + Amizh = Tamizh is his explanation.
He also says that the people who are near ‘malai’ and their language is Malayalam and the people of England and their language is English and so on.
Refer- Thamil chamuthaya Varalaaru -page 43-44.
We cannot deny that but from “Amizhnthore” tamil evoluation is not possible.
He also says tamils were called ‘Thirai vazhi vanthavan”(a man from sea) ,Thirayan (sea man),Thirayar kudi (sea people), A child who was born for the parents of Chola Prince and naga princess was called “Thirai tharu marabin uravone Umbal” (Perumpanatruppadai) should have some meaning and this must be the cause of tamil name formation. How ?
Dr. Sothi Prakasam :
Quoting the above he says , “Thirai kadal Odiyum Thiraviyam Thedu”(at any cost make money by sea trade) was the slogan prevailed among tamils. They were top in sea trade and ruled the world before 3000 years only through sea trade. “Yathum Urae ,Yavarum Kelir”(All world people are our brethren, All world is ours) came into being only by this trading affinity.
And so world people especially meditarenian countries people called tamils as “Thirayar”and their language “Thirayer Mozhi”which turned “Thrimili” there and thramili in India turned Thramidi –dravidi- Dravida in north India and tamil in south India.
The people who migrated from meditaranien countries to Turky called themselves as “Thrimili” –Refer Dravidian India – T.N.Sesha Iyengar quoting eminent historian Sunil Kumar Chatterji.
In Greece the people called “Thriyar” lived. They were called “Throzer” in Turky.
Hence “Thirayar Mozhi” turned tamil is the correct interpretation.
Whenever we analyse tamil roots we have to travel Tamilnadu to Sumeria, Anattrolia, Persia and then Sanskrit for comparative analysis. Then we will get wonders.
f.s.gandhi
The Contribution of the Ancient
Tamils to the Civilisation and
Culture of the world
- K.D. THIRUNAVUKKARASU
Culture has been defined as the pusuit of perfection, which is the embodiment of sweetness and light. Culture reveals the various stages in the "development of an individual, a group or class or of a whole society".
Tamil culture, which is one of the ancient cultures of the world, discloses some of the significant characteristics of human mind and its longing for the liberation of mankind from the trammels of death and destruction.
Scholars have given due recognition to the role of Tamil culture in the formation of Indian civilization. Dr. S.K. Chatterji remarks that "In culture, speaking of the Indian way, one may say that over twelve annas (75 paise) in the rupee is of tamil origin".
In another context he points out that the Tamil is the most important of the non-Vedhic elements in the civilization of India; and the basic culture of India is certainly over 50% Tamil although expressed in the main through the Sankrit language.1
The Tamils were a mighty race who could feel proud of a culture and civilization exclusively their own and of great antiquity. Even after centuries of contact with the Vedhics, the Tamils maintained to a considerable extent their independent culture, which appears to have survived even today. This is strongly borne out by the Sangam literature. The Sangam works, no doubt reveal some of the cultural traits of the Vedhics that have been assimilated into the fold of Tamil culture. But one can trace the facets of the Culture of the Tamils which is easily noticeable in the poems of the Sangam literature.
In the light of the above obscrvations, a modest attempt is made to trace the significant aspects of Tamil Culture that have enriched the heritage of the culture and civilization of the world.
Five-fold division of the Landscape :
The physical texture of the ancient South Indian landscape with its mountains and rivers, and clearly defined contours have induced the Tamils to divide the landscape on the basis of geographical set up. The hilly tracts and the mountain regions are called Kurinchi; the forest tracts are known as Mullai; the fertile regions of the river-valleys are called Marutam; the littoral landscape of the seashores is known as Neytal and the waste land and the sandy desert are called Palai. This five fold division of the landscape gave an impetus to the development of Tamil Culture. Modern Scientific developments have shown that the influence of geography in determining the character and culture of a people could not be ignored.
The Tamil culture appears to have evoled in different shades and forms in these five-fold regions, which ultimately, reached its high water-mark in the river valleys.
The division of the landscape formed the basis for the ancient Tamil poetry which furnished its apodictic illustration of its independent origin and development. Only in the end of the 16th century, the Westerners have tried to classify the landscape into 5 regions.
Home, the Sweet home :
The basic unit of the ancient Tamil Society was the family. A gruoup of families constituted the different stratas of the Tamil society. Hence, the Household life of the Tamil people played a vital role in the development of Tamil culture. The pleasant domestic life has been idealised and glorified as a supreme state in the life of every human-being. Love and virtue are the essential qualities of the householders and they are considered as the symbol and fruit of the family life2. Among all those (who strive for future happiness) he is greatest who lead a happy family life3. This life has been extolled as the greatest virtue to be practised4.
The better-half of the man is acclaimed as the true partner in life who possesses all the wifely virtues and spends according to the income of her husband5. An excellent wife is a blessing to the home and that has bearing the good childern is its precious ornament6. The wife has been extolled as the "Illuminator" of the family7.
The acquisition of intelligent children has been considered as the greatest blessings in the life of a man8. There are number of fascinating pictures of the sweet home in the Sangam literature which bear ample testimony to the significance attached to the family life.
The duties of the domestic life have been portrayed in the following terms;
"Showering presents to the goodmen,
Honouring the ascetics and the righteous,
Entertaining guests, friends and relatives,
Are the sacred duties of the noble Householders".9
There seems to have been a popular saying about the Tamils of the Sangam age, that those are the fortunate parents, who won lasting fame in this as well as in the next world by having a son; they are the most blessed10.
These cherished ideals of the sweet home reveals the eagerness and attachment of the ancient Tamils to the house-hold life which has been called Illaram, i.e., righteous married life.
One could not find a parallel to this type of reverance and respect shown to the family life in any other ancient civilizations of the world.
Hospitality :
The Tamils of the Sangam age are well known for their love and affection to their brothern. From the dawn of history, the Tamils have freely associated with the foreigners of far and near. They have developed a sense of service towards them, which has been called in Tamil as Viruntu Ompal i.e., hospitality. Even today, they practise hospitality as a kind of virtue or an aspect of righteous living. Tiruvalluvar, the great poet-philosopher of Tamilnadu pays tributes to the act of hospitality in the following words:
"what for the wise toil and set up homes?
It is to feed the guest and help the strangers"11
There is hardly any reference to the act of hospitality as a sacred duty of the householder as it was practised by the Tamils in any other countries of the ancient days.
Use of Flowers :
Ancient Tamils were known for their love towards flowers. They said it with flowers not only in love but also in war, in friendship, in hospitality and even in the relief of poverty and want. When strangers passed through a village, they were offered flowers as a sign of extending warm welcome to them.12 The bards adorned their musical instruments with garlands of flowers.
Mullai, a variety of jasmine has been considered as a symbol of chastity. Not only the girls and married ladies adorned their hair do's with flowers but also the males used to wear the strings of flowers in their tufts. Garlands and wreaths in various forms and sizes were in use.
Care of the predominant totemic symbols of the three royal dynasties of Tamilnadu was garlands made out of a particular variety of flowers. The Cheras had the tender palmyra buds, the Pandyas used neem flowers and the Cholas had a fascination for Atti (Mountain ebony) flowers.13
During the periods of mourning and distress, flowers and garlands were not used by the Tamils. Widows were prohibited from using the flowers as an adornment.14
This healthy tradition is followed even today. The Tamils yet revere flowers as an auspicious symbol and as a token of love and affection.
Oil Bath :
Smearing the gingelly oil from head to foot and then taking bath either in the cold or hot water has become a custom among the Tamils.
Child birth was considered ceremonially unclean in many parts of the world. But they were never accustomed to purify the mother, from the pollution by performing a ceremonial oil-bath. In the Sangam period, this type of ceremonial oil bath of the mother was known as Neyyani mayakkam.15
In the beginning and end of solemn occasions, ancient Tamil people used to take oil baths. This custom was prevalent among the Greeks and Romans who used olive oil for their baths.
The practice of taking oil bath was a widespread habit only among the Tamils, the Greeks and the Romans of the ancient world. From this, we are inclined to think that the climate of the Meditarranean and the tropical regions might have induced these three nations to indulge in this custom to indulge in this custom to find comfort and gratification in the heat of the scorching sun.
White attire :
Ancient Tamil people wore white attire at the time of solemn occasions like starting from home to the battle-fields and also for the birth day celebrations. The birth-day celebration was known as the Vellani Vila.16 But in the Mediaeval Age, white dress has been looked with an air of condescension and it has been treated as an inauspicious dress in India, whereas in the Europe, it has gained significance as a dress of dignity and decorum. It may be the result of religious fends in India. A sect of Jains used to wear white-dress. So, it has become a symbolic representation of a particular sect.
Sari and vetti :
Modern Indian women, especially, the South Indian women can be easily identified from her novel mode of dress i.e., from the sari, they usually wear. Now a days it has become a fashion even among the ladies of Europe and america to be dressed with saris as an evening dress. The men of South India, wear vetti or dhothi in a particular form, which has also gained popularity among the people of the world.
But in the pre-historic period, most probably in the Neolithic period, this type of dress for men and women might have come into vogue among the Tamils.17 Gradually, this mode of dress spread throughout India. After the advent of the Muslims in India, their form of dress gained popularity in the North India. But it never became a favourable dress in Tamilnadu. It has become a national dress of the Tamils without any reservations even among the followers of alien religious creeds.
Rice and Spices :
Classical writers like Pliny, Ptolemy, the author of the Erythrean Sea and Strabo have recorded the brisk maritime trade between Tamilnadu and the Western countries in the early centuries of the Christian era.
In addition to pepper and rice, the other important goods exported from the Malabar (Chera) coast in great quantities were fine pearls, ivory, ginger, spikenard oil and gems. The names of these luxurious goods have found a place in the vocabulary of the Classical languagas as well as in the modern European languages.
One such word is arici (rice), the staple food of Tamilnadu and China from olden days. This word has found its way to Greece, where it was called Oryza. From this word, Oriza of Latin, riz of the French, rice of the English, rizo of the Italian and arrez of the Spanish have derived.
Another important ingredient added to the dishes to prescive for a few days and to make them delicious is Milaku which was called piperri in Greek, piper in Latin and pepper in the modern European languages. This name appears to be corrupted form of Pippili, the long pepper in Tamil. Latin authors especially make frequent references to pepper. We can cite a significant example for this. Horace, with much delight, is apprehensive of his book being taken away to wrap up spices and pepper like impertinent writings which only deserve such a treatment.
Ginger was also exported to the Western Countries. The people of Greece called it as zingiberi, and the Romans as gingiber, coming naturally from the Tamil word Inchiver i.e., tho root of the green ginger. The Roman physicians, Dioscurides praises it as a good digestive and nice recipe and Auspicious records its frequent use as a food. The names of the sandal wood and pearl of Tamilnadu are also derived their names from Canthu and Paral in the Western countries.18
Pearl Ornaments :
Ornaments made out of pearls and with pearls were in great demand. There are some references to the objections raised by the Roman Senators to restrict the import of pearls from Damirike (Tamilakam), Which drained a large quantity of gold every year from their country.
Auspicious things :
In the marriage and other pleasant functions, we use vermilion and turmeric as auspicious symbols and sacred objects. Besides this, we freely give, take and chew the betalleaves on such occasions. These appear to be a legacy from our ancestors, which have found a prominent place in the heritage of the world.
Irrigation Dams :
Tamils of the Sangam period had a great attraction towards river vallies. They had their settlements on the banks of the perennial rivers and established their important towns, cities and capitals there. In harnessing the natural resources, they have made Herculean attempts to control the floods and preserve the excess water for the cultivation of crops throughout the year. They have constructed huge dams and large lakes. Dravidians (Tamils) were responsible for the significant achievenments of India in the art of constructing irrigational dams and canals throughout India.19
The observations of a German researcher of Hydraulics deserve special mention here. "A very highly astonishing discovery of recent research is the remains of irrigation works in South East Africa" observes Dr. H.W. Flemming, and says that "it wo'nt belong to the cultural influence of Egypt. The high culture of the Indian Dravidians who were pushed South by the Indo-Germans had enough initiative, once upon a time to penetrate into the South-East of Africa to build magnificient irrigation works there."20
There is a poem in Purananuru, which expresses the appeal of a poet to the Pandya King Neduncheliyan, the victor of Talaiyalankanam.21 The poet advises the king to construct irrigation tanks wherever possible to help the peasants and to improve the prosperity of the kingdom. This poem serves as an unfailing witness to the irrigational works of the ancient Tamils.
Calendar :
It is very interesting to note that "there are two, an ecclesiastical calendar and civil one. The ecclesiastic calendar of the Tamils like other Asiatic calendars, including the Telugu calendar is lunar. But the civil calendar is solar, truly and completely solar and is not, like ours, an originally lunar calendar modified to fit the solar year ....... it is unique, and that it aims at a degree of astronomical accuracy and consistency beyond that of any other calendar in use.....it proves the independence and continuous activity of Dravidian science in the past of India, least exposed to non-Dravidian influences."22 This statement points out the significance of the calendar adopted by the ancient Tamils.
Pattini Cult :
Pattini cult is one of the significant features of Tamil culture, The deification of a 'chaste wife' as the 'Goddess of chastity' originated in Tamilnadu during the Sangam age. Kannaki, the heroine of the epic Silappatikaram has been deified as Pattini Devi by Ilanko Adikal.
Deification of Kannaki has brought in its wake, a train of legends and varied cults, in which Pattini figures as one of the incarnations of the goddess Sakti of the Hindu religion. This cult has found a congenial atmosphere to thrive in Sri Lanka at the end of the Sangam age. There are many shrines to this deity in Ceylon. It is the only female deity in the pantheon of divine beings worshipped next to Taya by the Sinhalese.23
Siva :
It has been claimed that "the greatest gift of South India to Hinduism is God Siva".24 The Rig Vedic Rudrs is an absolutely independent personality, even independent of Siva, of the proto-Indian times. But an effort was made here to amalgamate the two elements of Rudra and Siva-without however introducing the name of Siva. This has been done by the addition of some more elements and attributes which have been (more or less) originally considered as the qualities of Siva. Dilating on this point, Dr. Karmarkar observes that "Rudra is the lord of the animals and forms the point of linkage between the Vedic religion and the later Siva worship. Siva in the Rig Veda means auspicious but it is not the name of a God; the Rudra in Rig-Veda is a malignant cattle destroying deity".25
Murukan :
The cult of Murukan goes back to the pre-historic period in Tamilnadu. He was conceived as a territorial deity of the Kurinchi region. He has been called as the God of youth and beauty. Valli the daughter of Hunter's chief has been identified with one of the mistress of Murukan. In the beginning of the Christian era, Murukan has been transformed into Subramanya or Kartikeya in a new setting with the assimilation of North Indian legends and beliefs.
Uma :
The consort of Lord Siva and the female manifestation of his energy and power is known as Uma or Parvati. In the tradition of the Tamils, she is known as Korravai. Scholars believe that the expression Uma is only an Aryan rendering of the original Amma of the Dravidian term".26
Krishna, The Hero of the Cowherds :
Even Mayon and Mal are believed to be the old (pre-Aryan) Tamil names, subsequently identified with the later Aryan God Vishnu. The earliest reference to the pastoral krishna occurs only in the Tamil literature. His sweet heart Nappinnai, the the proto-type of Radha of later period appears to be a maid of the pastoral people of ancient Tamilnadu. The Krishna cult might have been carried to the North by tribes of the Deccan like Abhiras.
Pucey or the Flower offerings :
Pucey, the term in Tamil implies the mode of worshipping the deity with flowers, This word has been borrowed into Sanskrit as puja in the later Vedic period.27 This method of flower offerings to Gods represents the practice of the Tamils from time immemorial. "Homa or the fire ritual and puja, or the flower Ritual, represent two distinct words of religious thought or conception. The flower ritual or the Puja is unknown to the Vedic religion; their ritual is everywhere Homa.28 This categorical expression of an Indologist clearly points out the indebtedness of the various religious tenets to the Tamils which are following the flower offerings as a form of worship.
Concept of Self Surrender :
The concept of self-surrender at the feet of God has been enunciated and elucidated in great detail by the preceptors of Saiva and Vaishnava theology of later periods. In no other religious tenets of India, as well as of the accident, we find such a lofty ideal of relinquishing the worldly attachments and submit oneself at the feet of the God to seek solace for the yearning heart.
Tiruvalluvar, the illustrious sage and sear of Tamilnadu enunciates the doctrine of self-surrender for the first time in ancient India. He instructs that "those who find refuge at the great feet of Him who lives in the heart (of the devotees) live eternally in Heaven".29 "To those who are united in the feet of Him who is without desire or aversion, never experience sufferings".30 "They alone escape from sorrow who surrender themselves at the feet of Him who is unique in every respects".31 "The stormy seas of wealth and sensual pleasure cannot be traversed except by those who cling to the feet of the God who is the ocean of Righteousness".32 "None can swim the great sea of births, but those of who are united in the feet of God".33
These verses have been the main source for the exposition of the doctrine of self-surrender at the feet of God in the Mediaeval period. No other religion except Christianity advocates the doctrine of self-surrender at the feet of the Supreme Being, This concept can be claimed as a significant contribution of the Tamils in the sphere of philosophical speculations.
Muttamil :
Ancient Tamils included the most popular Fine Arts viz., Music, Dance and Drama in their concept of Muttamil. They have given equal importance to Music and Dance and treated them in par with the Tamil language and literature. We could not find a parallel to this concept of Fine Arts in any quarters of the world.
The musical instruments like yal (lute), kulal (Flute) (not the Nagaswaram of this century) and Mulavu (two-faced drum), the proto-type of modern mritankam are the most important orchestra that enhanced the value of the melodious music of the ancient Tamils.
Literature :
The Akam poems of the Sangam age excells in form and theme as well as expression and elucidation of the subtle ideas and the tender feelings of the lovers. They depict and glorify only the life of the lovers who have succeeded in their love affair. When we compare these Akam poems with the love poems of other countries, we find to our surprise that they deal with the disappointment and desertion of lovers.
The moral philosophy of the Tamils is enshrined in Tirukkural one of the great classics in Tamil. It is the "masterpiece of Tamil literature and one of the highest and purest expression of human thought". This great didactic work in Tamil reveals the loftiest sentiments and the purest philosophy of life with equal power of conception and expression of the Tamil genius. Tiruvalluvar, the author of this work has been acclaimed as the "Bard of universal man"34 by Dr.G.U. Pope, an eminent missionary of Great Britain.
Ethical Humanism :
Rene Grousset, one of the outstanding scholars in the study of Eastern Civilizations calls Tamil culture as the "Culture of a Tropical Greece" and Tamilnadu as a "Greece before the time of Greece". He also points out that there is a "basic relationship between the refinement of highly evolved ethical ideals and basically popular sentiments of humanism of the Tamils". Then he expresses that "This is one of the greatest contributions of the Tamils to the world culture".35
The ideal of "One World" :
The supreme philosophy of life as conceived by the Tamils is clearly expressed in one of the verses of 'Purananuru the ancient Tamil Classic:
"Every country is my country
Every man is my kinsman"36
In these lines, the ancient Tamils have given vibrant expression to their "cherished ideal of the One world and the universal brotherhood of Man". From this oft-quoted epigram, one can infer that the Tamils have gone beyond the barriers of Class, Community, Nation and Religion and embraced the whole humanity as their brotheren. There is hardly any parallel to this anticipation of 'One-world ideal' and the 'universal brotherhood of man' in ancient countries.
The major contributions of various cultures and civilisations of the globe to the formation of civilasation of mankind have been expressed in the following terms:
Glory that was Greece!
Grandeur that was Rome!
Splendour that was India!
Marvelous that was China!
We can add to this list, "Thrill that was Tamilnadu!" as a tribute.
Notes
1. Majumdar, R.C. The Vedic Age, P. 167; S.K. Chatterji, Tamil Culture, Vol. 8, P.275.
2. Kural. 45.
3. Kural. 46.
4. Kural. 49.
5. Kural. 51.
6. Kural. 60.
7. Puram. 314.
8. Kural. 61.
9. Silap. 16:71-73
10. Akam. 66.
11. Kural. 81.
12. Paitu. 10:428
13. Tol. III:2:5.
14. Xavier S. Thani Nayagam, Nature in Ancient, Tamil Poetry, pp.33-34
15. Tol. III. 4:5
16. Silap. 27:229.
17. S.K. Chatterji. Indo-Aryan and Hindi, p.32.
18. Tamil Culture, Vol.3; pp.36-45; Journal of Tamil Studies,
No. 2; pp.1-9.
19. Hornell, J., The Origins and Ethnographical Significance of Indian Boat designs, pp.256.
20. Quoted by Dr. V. Kulandaisamy, in 'Palantamilum Poriyiyalum' in Palkalaip palantamil p.147, (ed.) Dr. N. Sanjeevi, University of Madras, 1972.
21. Puram. 18.
22. 22. G. Slater, The Dravidian Elements in Indian Culture, pp.71-72.
23. 23. K.D. Thirunavukkarasu, Pattini Cult, in Papers on Tamil Studies, pp.61-68
24. R.N. Dandekar, Mythological Contributions of the South to the Heritage of India, p.15.
25. A.P. Karmarkar, The Religious of India, Vol.1, p.53.
26. A.P. Karmarkar, Op. cit. p.101.
27. T. Burrow, The Sanskrit Language, pp. 32-33.
28. Majumdar, R.C., The Vedic Age, pp. 160; A.B. keith, The Religion and Philosophy of the Vedas and Upanishads; Vol.1, p.31.
29. Kural. 3.
30. Kural. 4.
31. Kural. 7.
32. Kural. 8.
33. Kural. 10.
34. G.U. Pope, The "Sacred Kurral", Poem in the preface.
35. Rene Grousset, "Contributions of India", in Bilau de historie.
p. 130.
36. Puram. 192.
f.s.gandhi
Friends,
Earliest of Tamil Literature Tholkappiyam dated to 150BCE, uses clearly Sanskrit letters and refers to Vedas at many places.
Solomon
Where???Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon
Friends,
We shall advise mr.Idiyappam to read Either Sangam Lit. and the are all availble downloadable at
www.tamil.net/projectmadurai
www.chennainetwork.com
Why don't you read them, or atleast read all my postings, where I HAVE quoted several times, why make the threads with meaningless postings
MosesMohammedSolomon
SathyamevaJEyathe
Where???
Ahh....this discussion again. This is what Idiappam wants to hear from us all:
Tamil is the oldest langauge on Earth, even cavemen spoke it.
Tamil is the most advanced langauge on Earth and it is even spoken by Gods.
Tamil is the greatest thing ever and it is the root of all civilization.
HindLad, Keep guessing!
Friends,Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon
We shall advice mr. Solomon to understand his quotings several times first rather than attempting his solomonic decisions.
It looks so fantastic. Can you please repeat them a thousand times?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyderbadi
Cut & Paste strictly prohibited! :lol:
And by the way you become a seasoned hubber. That's pretty steep!
solomon wrote :
Earliest of Tamil Literature Tholkappiyam dated to 150BCE, uses clearly Sanskrit letters and refers to Vedas at many places.
Tolkappiyam is a grammetrical treatise, for a language to have that, the literary language should have been popular for atleast a 1000 years. So it is definetly not the oldest literature. vedas/chandas/sanskrit took around the same time for their grammer by Pannini. Tholkappiyam refers to vadachol and not sanskrit, even telugu was vadachol at that time. Mentioning of vedas in Tholkappiyam please provide evidence. Some vedic gods are mentioned in Tholkappiyam, what does that mean, these gods went from tamil culture to vedic ?
lol...Thank God people of other langauges arent as nationalistic as you guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by sivajayan
Tamils goind global. you talking 'nationalistic'. Wallow there!
---------Deleted------
Dear Friends,
My post on 03.08.05 In 'Tamil is elder to Sanskrit' thread shall reveal that Tholkappiam never contain any sanskrit/Vedhic traditions.
I shall post about 'Nanmarai' mentioned in Tamil literature. I am working on that.
f.s.gandhi
SEA FARRERS TAMILS
There are more than sufficient evidences that Marakkalam(Sea Boat), Madpandam(Clay pots) & Thikiri (Wheel) are the inventions of ‘Porunai Valley Civlization’. These preliminary inventions made tamils to reach all over the world to do trade and spread their civilizational, cultural and language elements before common era.
Let us see some of the evidances.
Ship Varieties :
Variety of Sea boats and Ships were used during Second Sankam Tholkappiam (1250 BCE) times and Third sankam times (From 800 BCE to 200 ACE).
1.Boats used for Fish Netting & Travelling were called as ‘OODAM’
2.Those used for Fish netting,traveling, Shipping goods, Sea robbing and water games were called ‘VALLAM’
3.Big size of Vallam was called ‘VANCHI’
4.Travelling boat of small size was called ‘THONI’
5.Big size Travelling boat was called ‘MARAKKALAM’
6.Those used for Quick traveling, Sea robbing of small size
boat was called ‘PADAKU’
7.Those used for Shipping goods, Sea Army & Sea robbing of Bigger size was called ‘KAPPAL’
8.The boats used to cross big rivers were called ‘AMBI, PALLI & ODAM’
9.For shipping goods in Canal & rivers the boat ‘PAHRI’ was used.
10.KATTUMARAM, MENGA, PUNAI, MITHAVAI, THEPPAM
PARISU,MATHAKAI, CHONGU were used in Ponds and Lakes.
11.For pearls collecting TIMIL & SALANGU were used.
12.MATHLAI, NAVAI, VANKAM were big ships used to travel foreign countries. ‘Navai’ turned as ‘nova’ in bible flood story.
13.KALAM was used to take horses.
14.Big ship ‘VANKAM’ which was installed with ‘PAI MARAM’ and ‘Sukkan’ used to run the ship quickly.
BEST MARINERS :
‘Paravai’ in tamil means Sea. ‘Para’ is the root which means area. ‘Parappu’ is from this root. Paravai (vallinam) means bird which is able to see bigger areas and travels longer distance.
The people who traveled along sea were called ‘Paravar’ / Parathavar’. They were good mariners. They engaged in sea trades of ancient times.(1)
Sea food is favourite food all over the world from time immorial. Pandya’s symbol “Meen”(fish) and their civilizational influences present all ancient civilizations. Readers can go through “Tamil elderiness to world languages’ thread for more details.
Tamil chola King Karikala II was praised in Third sankam ‘Pattinappalai’ which talks about ‘Kaveripoompatinam’ the head of Sea trade in those days. Satthan (present Chetti) Ma-naikan were trade heads.
Through Nagappattinam, Trades with China and South Asian Countries were carried out.(2)
For trading Exchange symbol ‘Kasu’(coin) was used. In Indian sub-continent these kind of ‘Muththirai Kasu’ (branded coins)- foremost coins were only in tamil.
Money researchers tell that there are almost no places in tamil Nadu without having these ancient ‘KASU’(coins)(3)
Chera’s coins (present kerala) in tamil were excavated in Karuvur, Mambalam, Vembavur,Darapuram,Veerasikamani which belongs to 300 BCE.(4) These are the foremost ancient coins in Indian sub-continent.(5)
Panini, (50 BCE) Grammarian for north India & West Asian languages used the word ‘KARSHA –PANAM’ (for exchange) which was from tamil ‘KASU-PANAM’.
During later half of 250 BCE Cholas published Cheppu(Cu) kasu which have been excavated in Karur(6) Tamil literature talks about Gold coins. But who will leave Gold coins to remain ?(7)
During 100 BCE Pandiyan ‘Peruvazhuthi’ published Cu coins.(8)
King Juleuis Ceasar published Romanian coins (46 BCE). These coins have been excavated in Thiruppur.(9)
In romanian history records tamil cities like Naravu(Naours), Thondi (Jundis), Musiri ( Mouziris), Neerkondal(Nelkonda), Porkadu (Bakare), Varkalai(Balita), Kumari ( Kommoi), Korkai (kolkai), Puducheri ( Poduke)Marakkanam (Saptama) Uraiyur (Argara) are specified as trade centres.
Ancient Sea trade of tamil produced many civilizations in Middle East and Western Africa including Egypt.
References :
(1)Traditional boats in Tamil literature in the history of traditional navigation. By V.S.Arul Raj, G. Victor Rajamanickkam, Edited by Dr. G. Victory Rajamanikkam and Dr. Y. Subbarayalu, Tamil University, Thanjavur, page 7-14.
(2)‘Pallavar Kala Varalaru’ – page 284, Dr.A.Swaminathan.
(3)Tamizhaka Tholliyal Chantrukal (Archeolgical evidences) page 2, by Allakudi Arumuka Sitaraman.
(4)Same as (3) page 14-15
(5)Same as (3) Foreword.
(6)The Hindu. 31.10.1998.
(7)Ketti mudali Arasarkal –Tamil Nadan page 132.
(8)Sankam tamil coins, page 18-20 & 26 by R. Krishnamurthy.
(9)Same as (3) page 17
f.s.gandhi
Great post sir.
But i have a little question how do you know the date of the Tolkappiam ?
Kindly visit my detailed post in 'Tamil is elder to Sanskrit' Thread dated 06 . 08 . 2005 which was based on Kadalkol Stories' inscriptions during King Solomon of middle East. Tholkappiam belongs to second sankam literature and that is the only book escaped from Sea diaster during 1250 BCE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelavar
f.s.gandhi
Ok thank you very much :wink: